How Gritty/Lethal is combat?

[SirEktar]

I'm still waiting for my copy of the rules to arrive and one of the other threads on this board (the inconspicious death) got me thinking. How well does BW do lethal combat? Specifically, can an excellent shot take down an opponent?

This isssue came to light when we were playing in another fantasy system. In this game, our elven archer was quite skilled but not very effective even against low-end opponents. Even with the best shots against poorly armored oppoents, it took a couple of arrows to take them down.

If BW doesn't quite simulate this, has anyone any hints on how to "fix" it?

[Kublai]

In BW, the average Mortal Wound is B10. Here's a sampling of weapon damage maximums based on the average Power and their effect on this Mortal Wound:

Sword: B10 - dead
Spear: B9 - traumatically wounded and probably down for the count
Dagger: B7 - terrible wound
Mace: B9
Hammer: B12 - beyond dead, crushed and mangled
Axe: B12
Hunting Arrow: B10
Long Bow Arrow: B12

A master of his weapon can easily achieve these killing blows with one shot alone. Even the average warrior can pull this off now and again.

Just from these numbers, you can see that most weapons will put you down rather quickly. Luckily, there are ways to reduce the blow or avoid it altogether. But, that's for another post! :)

[SirEktar]

Just from these numbers, you can see that most weapons will put you down rather quickly. Luckily, there are ways to reduce the blow or avoid it altogether. But, that's for another post! :)

Thanks for the response. For avoiding ignoble wounds which could derail the game, we generally have a benny-type system. Typically, we spend bennies to roll an additional die for soaking damage, re-rolling the entire soak, etc. It seems to work relatively well in keeping the game dangerous without destroying the campaign because a character falls from a horse and breaks his neck.

[Kublai]

I think you are going to like BW's wound scale juuuuust fiiiine! :)

[luke]

For avoiding ignoble wounds which could derail the game, we generally have a benny-type system. Typically, we spend bennies to roll an additional die for soaking damage, re-rolling the entire soak, etc. It seems to work relatively well in keeping the game dangerous without destroying the campaign because a character falls from a horse and breaks his neck.

Erm. I dunno if I agree with Kublai on his assessment of your enjoyment.

First of all, BW hates "falls from horses." The system really doesn't like haphazard noise like that because it just slows down or ruins games. I would hope that your players have more pressing concerns than the movement and maneuver chart. If you fail a roll in BW, you simply fail -- there's no catastrophic failure chart.

Second, BW is callously unforgiving. In this system, if a player is not thinking or is simply careless, he will get his character killed. More often than not, it's better to stay out of a fight.

However, if a player is forced into a life and death struggle in BW, he has more control over his character's actions than in nearly any other game. A player can quite literally think his way out of a situation using the system.

Anyway, you really should read through the books, make a character and run through a few melee demos before you pass judgement. I bet that it is pretty different from what you are used to.

-L

[SirEktar]

First of all, BW hates "falls from horses." The system really doesn't like haphazard noise like that because it just slows down or ruins games. I would hope that your players have more pressing concerns than the movement and maneuver chart. If you fail a roll in BW, you simply fail -- there's no catastrophic failure chart.

I was thinking less of a critical failure chart but more along the lines of a bad roll (or series of rolls) derailing the plot (hence the use of bennies, fate points, etc.).

Second, BW is callously unforgiving. In this system, if a player is not thinking or is simply careless, he will get his character killed. More often than not, it's better to stay out of a fight.

Awwww, where's the fun in that? :)

Anyway, you really should read through the books, make a character and run through a few melee demos before you pass judgement. I bet that it is pretty different from what you are used to.

-L

The main appeal for me is the flavorful character creation (beliefs, instincts, traits) - especially if it is reinforced by the game mechanics. I'm looking forward to reading the system and giving it a whirl.

[eruditus]

Hmmm, I tend to run in the middle of Kublai and Abzu's opinions and here is no difference :D

Combat is uber deadly. However, I have found that die rolls can take things in very unexpected directions. Trolls, which are big, ugly and VERY dangerous, had been beaten soundly over and over by my players due to good Speeds (ability to avoid the trolls slower and clumsier attacks). On the other hand one of the PCs recieved a relatively minor blow to the chest (a Midi wound, -2 to all her dice) that did not heal well and it really colored the campaign for her and what her character was capable of.

However, the systems own "bennie" rules - Artha - really dictate how "cinematic" the game is and gives the players greater choices (doubleing die pools, ignoring minor wounds, staying alive when mortally wounded in hopes that a medic wanders by). The higher the Artha totals in your game the greater the cinematic nature of the campaign.

As both had mentioned BW is very different in several regards. Play it with an open mind and figure out what works for you and how and BW will work swimmingly.

[Mad Hatter]

First of all, BW hates "falls from horses." The system really doesn't like haphazard noise like that because it just slows down or ruins games. I would hope that your players have more pressing concerns than the movement and maneuver chart. If you fail a roll in BW, you simply fail -- there's no catastrophic failure chart.

A knight in one of my games actually suffered a deadly fall, but I don't think you'd dislike it, Abzu. Her horse went down (an arrow) and her legs were pinned beneath. Only a few moments later she met her end as a player character finished her off.