A fiery ball of conversion intensity

[EarthenForge]

I'm getting ready to take the plunge.

I really wish I had discovered BW a year ago, when I was passively considering non D&D systems. I DMed a long campaign (2.0 thru 3.0) a few years back and it was a fantastic, friends-for-life building experience, but I often found myself frustrated with the system itself. I felt unsupported by it, or like I was swimming upstream to run a game that wasn't ultra-combat focused. It wouldn't have been so bad if the combat was awesome, but most combats left us feeling unsatisfied - like, that could have been so much better then it ended up playing out. D&D has all this detail for combat, but it leaves out some of what I think are the most drama intense parts, like the true agony of failures, suffering from injuries, strategically aiming for specific body parts, etc. And yet it goes on, and on and on...Well, you all already know this.

This past late spring/early summer I started a weekly 3.5 game with a new group of eight friends, all but one (my husband, Xenomouse, whom I met through my last long-running game, teehee) of whom were noobs to pen & paper games. So they've been learning, and it's been pretty fun, but I've still been deeply unsatisfied by D&D, and once again, combat is more annoying then exciting, so it doesn't happen all that often and they get most of their XP from role-playing and story awards. It kinda works, but sucks at the same time, 'cause combat should be intense and *fun*.

So my husband, who plays on the interwebs much more than I, came across BW and ordered the main 2 books. I wasn't especially interested because he's collected a number of RP systems manuals that, while interesting, have failed to make a convert out of me. But he started reading them and getting excited enough to blurt out random parts. I think the BITs are what caught my attention. I didn't pursue it, though, until a lousy combat that involved a couple of players nearly falling asleep (yeah) and increasing frustration over a few players who are completely letting their characters get run over by others with stronger personalities.

Xenomouse made me listen to the two Geek Nights podcasts that discuss BW (one of which is an interview with Luke & Thor - seriously hilarious, btw). After that, I started tearing through the books. I finished the Character Burner and am nearly done the main book. (Just got the Monster Burner in the mail, too.) I am head-over-heels in love with the system and it's been admittedly harder to run the last two sessions knowing they could be so much cooler with BW. And btw, holy crap with the word usage - way to make a person feel like their collage education taught them *nothing*. I had to laugh when I was reading the skill section for potter (one of my real life skillz) and had to look up 1/3 of the Ob terms. I love it, tough. Even if the thought of teaching a new system to a bunch of pen & paper noobs makes me want to cry.

So my husband and I have been carefully, and enthusiastically introducing some of the BW ideas to our group. At first some of the them were upset and we heard everything from "but we're only just getting comfortable with D&D!" to "but I love my dice!" They're interested, though, and we've given them a few concrete examples of how certain game situations would've been cooler with BW, and that's helped. So here's my basic conversion plan:

1. Spend the next few days finishing the book, rereading certain parts, and playing one-on-one mechanics tests with Xenomouse to get comfortable with how it all works. My next session or two will still be D&D, but I can live with that if it means presenting BW in the best possible light (I really want to know what I'm doing). I also need to convert all of my main NPCs.

2. Take a few of the more interested players and run The Sword.

3. Play BW at Ubercon (already signed up for Mel's game)

4. Run The Gift with everyone.

5. Convert! Converting their characters (human barbarian/rogue, half-elf ranger, two half-elf druids, gnome sorcerer, gnome bard, half-elf bard, elf rogue) is going to be frustrating and challenging, but hopefully there will be enough energy behind it by now to really push it forward. I think it will force some of the ho-hum characters into new realms of awesomeness, and I'm really excited about this.

6. Play our first, completely converted-to-BW session. If all goes as planned, this will be in about a month.

Sorry for the novel. I do have one pressing question at the moment...when you run the demos, and combat situations arise, do you just use the verses and bloody verses tests, or do you go all out with detailed martial combat?

[Thor]

Neat! And welcome.

When it comes to The Sword, it really depends on where the players want to take it. The Sword is really designed to showcase highlights of the system. In most cases, you'll see a few versus tests (maybe as two or three folks try to reach the sword first and take it), a Duel of Wits and an out and out Fight!

If you think the players are seeming overwhelmed by what's going on, then step back from the Fight! and run it as a Bloody Versus instead. While it's nice (and fun) to show off Fight!, the notes you want to make absolutely sure you hit are Beliefs, Intent and Task. As long as you get across those three things, you're doing well.

If they're handling it well and everyone is having a good time, go ahead and plunge them into a Fight!

The first exchange I would ignore Positioning and Stance actions. Keep them focused on the Martial actions. Just assume everyone is in Optimal distance and let them go to town. As they get comfortable, you can start introducing stuff like Positioning or Stance.

It's often useful to explain to the players ahead of time that this is a one-shot scenario. They're not coming back to these particular characters so they should gun for their Beliefs and do their best to achieve them during the session.

[Kublai]

Great! as I told Xenomouse, we'll happily Monster Burn your conversions to make them match the characters as they are. I don't suggest trying to burn them using lifepaths.

My biggest worry for you is the size of your group. BW works best with 3-4, and really experienced GMs can handle 5-6. 8 is right out! :( It's just too hard to hit all those BITs and keep them in it.

Good luck and feel free to ask us questions on anything!

[EarthenForge]

Thanks Thor! That's exactly the kind of demo-running tips I needed. :)

And thanks Kublai - believe me, I wish it could be a smaller group. I would probably be less frustrated with D&D in a smaller group too, as it was also designed for a group of about 4. I can't weed anybody out, though, cuz it's a fairly tight social group. I'm not super-worried because I'm fairly experienced as a DM and my groups have always been around 8. I realize, though, that no matter how awesome the system, having that many people complicates and slows things down. But I think that's where BW will help. By forcing their characters to be more solidly defined by BITs, the game will more forward faster on its own. There will still be slow times, but I think as long as everyone has a chance to shine now and then, they'll have a good time (we are all friends, after all). BITs are also good because I'll have more leverage to spur them on when they get quiet and passive. Mmmm...this is going to be fun...

But hey, if anyone has tips on running BW games with a big group, I would welcome them. I'm only just starting to get my head around the rules, but I'm thinking one thing would be to make sure each character has at least one belief that links them to another character or very current game situation - just as added insurance that they stay loosely tied to each other. ::shrugs::

Thanks again, guys. :D

[Mel White]

I'm getting ready to take the plunge.

3. Play BW at Ubercon (already signed up for Mel's game)



Cool! I look forward to meeting you. As I've mentioned, my first time playing BW was at Ubercon last year, so by this time next year I'll be playing in your scenario!
Mel

[EarthenForge]

Cool! I look forward to meeting you. As I've mentioned, my first time playing BW was at Ubercon last year, so by this time next year I'll be playing in your scenario!
Mel

Sweet! It'd be like going full circle...like a crazy wheel or something...:rolleyes:

[donbaloo]

Hey EarthenForge, welcome to the forums.

As daunting as it may be, I think its cool that you're gonna keep your social circle intact and run the full 8 in BW. Kublai is right though, that's a lot of BITs to be working on. Ideally you'd hope that the players will help shoulder the burden of pushing the story and finding ways on their own to get their BITs into play. However, with everyone being new to the game, and some just now getting the hang of D&D, you may not have that luxury.

The typical rule of thumb for a small group is for each character to have at least one belief along a common axis. That way, when the scene at hand is hitting that topic, everyone has an angle and a role to play. The same would hold true for a large group as well but maybe you could stretch it a bit further and try to ensure greater connectivity among all their beliefs. Or for every belief, try to have at least 3 or 4 other folks that are directly tied to that topic as well. I think the tighter and more related the group's beliefs are the easier your job is going to be.

Most of the con scenario's that I've looked at that run with big groups are all built so that each of the characters' beliefs are primed to ignite off other PCs' beliefs. Its a big web of PC interactions. Makes for a very fun evening of play but its also quiet a bit different than the standard game that a D&D group would be coming to the table for. But BW definitely works for large groups when set up that way.

I'm very interested to hear more from you as the game advances! Good luck and keep us updated!

[Fuseboy]

With larger groups, I imagine it might be helpful to get people to make their secondary beliefs about other characters in the group. That way, the group churns in on itself as it goes about achieving the central goal, rather than spreading apart as people link in sixteen separate subplots.

[Kublai]

Yes, excellent advice. Make these rules when burning: One Belief must be tied to the adventure/campaign goal and one Belief must be tied to another character in the group.

[EarthenForge]

Thanks, guys! Good advice. :)

I think I may be able to get everyone to tie a belief or two into each other or at the very least, a main NPC, which would still do a lot to drive the story on. I think DoW is really going to help our group as too - firstly because everyone seems pretty interested in the mechanic, but also because it'll come in handy when there are too many directions they want to go in. The characters may be pissed off at each other at the end, but they'll be unified, darn it.

Kublai - I am starting to think more carefully about *how* we're going to do the conversions. You mentioned it's better to just straight convert and not worry about life paths. Would you care to expound upon this? I guess I'm conflicted because while a few of them have very detailed back stories, a couple have hardly anything of note and may benefit from having to define that a little more with life paths. I guess I could let them decide what to do on an individual basis, but I'm just wondering if there's more I should be considering here.

[Kublai]

Before BW, there was AD+D. Luke ran it. When BW was finally ready to play, he decided to convert our characters instead of burning them. Looking back, he clearly bribed us with juicy exponents and great traits. It worked like a charm! I've played BW since.

I had a 10th level kensai, I believe. His stats were Strength 14, Dexerity 15, Constitution 16, Wisdom 18, Intelligence 8, Charisma 13. (I think!) Luke translated this generously as Perception 4, Will 8, Power 5, Speed 6, Agility 5, Forte 6. (or something close to that!) Since we were so high level, he granted us each one Grey Stat or Attribute. I chose Health. I was also extremely faithful (believing myself to be the son of a God) so he gave me a G8 faith!

I'll go into other parts tomorrow. It's late.

[stormsweeper]

You still may want to have them pick three or four LPs for determining Circles.

[EarthenForge]

Hmmm...some questions from your thoughtful thoughts...


With larger groups, I imagine it might be helpful to get people to make their secondary beliefs about other characters in the group. That way, the group churns in on itself as it goes about achieving the central goal, rather than spreading apart as people link in sixteen separate subplots.

What do you mean by secondary beliefs? Are you referring to the beliefs that come after the main driving belief, or do you mean a second, lesser set beyond the main 3?


Before BW, there was AD+D. Luke ran it. When BW was finally ready to play, he decided to convert our characters instead of burning them. Looking back, he clearly bribed us with juicy exponents and great traits. It worked like a charm! I've played BW since.

I had a 10th level kensai, I believe. His stats were Strength 14, Dexerity 15, Constitution 16, Wisdom 18, Intelligence 8, Charisma 13. (I think!) Luke translated this generously as Perception 4, Will 8, Power 5, Speed 6, Agility 5, Forte 6. (or something close to that!) Since we were so high level, he granted us each one Grey Stat or Attribute. I chose Health. I was also extremely faithful (believing myself to be the son of a God) so he gave me a G8 faith!

My guys are mostly level 4, with stats running all over the map, from 7-19. According to the "D20 SRD-to-BW" that puts their stats at B3-B5. I don't want to be overly generous because they aren't high level, but I may need to do a little more for a proper bribe...

I'm working on converting a few of my NPCs, and I have one very high level (17) rogue/locksmith (one of the best in the world) whom they enjoy interacting with. While it's doubtful that they'll ever try to get in a fight with him, I want him fully fleshed out, because *anything* could happen once everyone starts living fully by their BITs. His stats run from 10-20, which I guess technically translate to B4-B6, but that doesn't really make sense considering his level. I know he should at least have some gray going on. Possibly a white stat/attribute? This got me wondering, what is a character with a white stat like? Are we talking god-like overall (hence its supernatural classification), or does near-absolute mastery of a particular something count?


You still may want to have them pick three or four LPs for determining Circles.

Yeah, that's kinda why I'm hesitant to do a straight-up conversion. I may mix methods so they can benefit more from Circles, as well as the defining skills and traits LPs offer.

[Fuseboy]

What do you mean by secondary beliefs? Are you referring to the beliefs that come after the main driving belief, or do you mean a second, lesser set beyond the main 3?

I just mean beliefs #2 and #3, the beliefs other than the shared belief.

[stormsweeper]

This got me wondering, what is a character with a white stat like? Are we talking god-like overall (hence its supernatural classification), or does near-absolute mastery of a particular something count?

God-like. Stick with gray shade for the big stuff he does.

From the Monster Burner:


Is this ability extremely special, unique, otherworldly or semi-divine? Then choose gray shade; this ability is heroic in nature.

In this area, is the monster divine, demonic, supernatural, or beyond the pale of human comprehension? Then choose white shade.



Although you shouldn't invest that much time into NPCs, really. The danger is in them overshadowing your PCs.

[Kublai]

I disagree with D20 SRD-to-BW's numbers.

As far as I know, back when I played D+D a human's max stat was 18 without the aid of magic. In BW, a human's max stat is 8 without the aid of magic. Therefore, 18 equals 8 in my book.

Kublai's Conversion Chart:
1-2 = 1
3-4 = 2
5-7 = 3
8-10 = 4
11-13 = 5
14-15 = 6
16 -17= 7
18 = 8

Stats higher than 18 could translate to Grey shades or be represented by awshum traits (Hands of Stone, for instance).

A level 17 Rogue would probably have a grey Stat or two (most likely Speed, maybe Perception), with all skills rooted in that Stat greyed out as well - Stealthy, Climbing, etc. If he's one of the best in the world, he'd have many grey skills. Post his character and I'll do my best!

[EarthenForge]

Kublai - thanks, I think your chart makes more sense to some degree. It's still tricky, though, because D&D/D20 rules have loosened up a bit. You can simply advance a stat by one every forth level. Thus, it's not unheard of to have someone who got really lucky on their stat roll to already have a 19 stat by level 4. If I do go by your chart, most of the PCs stats will be in the B4-B7 range (maybe a couple of B3 and a couple of B8), which seems kinda high - they shouldn't be so close to maxing out yet.

I'll post more specifics about the PCs later.

As for my tricky level 17 NPC rogue, I'm not sure what all info you want, but here goes: (and by the way, I agree with Stormsweeper in that I don't want to risk overshadowing the PCs, but this character is one they've *chosen* to interact with repeatedly when they're in town - to the degree that one of the PCs is in love with him, and another couple occasionally do jobs for him in their downtime. So I feel like I kinda need to burn him properly - but I'm also trying to practice so I know what I'm doing when it comes time to burn the PCs.)

Name: Maelwys
Level 17 Rogue. Half-elf.
Strength: 10
Dexterity: 20
Constitution: 10
Intelligence: 15
Wisdom: 12
Charisma: 19

Best skills: Bluff, Locksmithing, Disable Device, Open Lock, Sleight of Hand (each has the 20 max ranks for his level, plus ability and misc. modifiers that makes for +22 - +27 on a d20 roll)

Next best skills: Escape Artist, Diplomacy, Gather Info, Hide, Intimidate, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Spot, Tumble (5-10 ranks in each; +10 - +15)

Rogue Special Abilities: Sneak Attack, Trapfinding, Evasion, Trap Sense, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Crippling Strike

Feats: Weapon Finesse, Point Blank Shot, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise, Improved Feint
~~~

I think most of his skills and feats will translate just fine, it's the number crunching I'm having difficulty with.

The other part being that's he's a half-elf (so are half the PCs). I'm happy to go with choosing the human or elven paths with an overlapping trait or two, like the book suggests, but what about age? In D&D, half-elves can easily live two mannish lifespans. Does that give them too much of an advantage if they choose human LPs or in BW does choosing a side include that races' lifespan? For my NPC Maelwys, I was planning on mapping out a nice long string of LPs that fit his backstory - he's around 100 years old, but I don't want to cheat. My half-elf PCs will probably mostly choose the path of man as well, so I'm quite curious about this.

[Kublai]

Here's my take on him! Note that I have very limited current D+D knowledge and so might mistake my interpretation of feats and such.

Maelwys
Born-Human Half-Elf Rogue

Per B5
Wil B6
Agi B7
Spe G6
Pow B4
For B4

Health B6
Mortal Wound B10
Steel B8
Hesitation 4
Circles B6 (City, Outcast)
Resources B6

Traits: Fey Blood - Elf, Graceful, Charismatic, Cool-headed, Artful Dodger, Slippery, Quickened Pulse, (Gah! I don't have my book, but I'll come back to this soon)

Skills: Falsehood B8, Intimidation B6, Sleight of Hand B7, Stealthy G7, Inconspicuous B8, Locksmith B8, Climb G6, Observation B7, Persuasion B6, Haggling B6, Knives B7, Bow B6, Sword B6, Trapper B8, Seduction B6, Precision Training, Merchant-wise B6, Noble-wise B6, Lock-wise B8, Guard-wise B6, Black Market-wise B6, Street-wise B6, Appraisal B7

Affiliations: 3D Thieves' Guild, 2D Adventurer's Guild, 3D Infamous Reputation among Nobles and Merchants

Reputations: 3D One of the best thieves in the world

What else am I missing...

[EarthenForge]

Kublai! Wow - thank you so much - that was really helpful!

Here's what I ended up doing:
I burned Maelwys from the ground up with lifepaths and everything, to better learn the process and see what would happen. Keeping true to my concept of him was more important to me than a perfect conversion (after all, he's been a part of the games I've DMed for 11 years). So I kept a strong concept of him in mind, and used your take to guide things a bit. I was surprised how perfectly it shaped him. I didn't get everything I wanted, nor did I take everything I could have, but I'm so pleased - esp. with the BITs, he's more solidly playable now then ever. So...

(Oh yeah, quicky setting overview: he & the PCs are part of a fast-developing colony that is building on top of a ruined colony that was abandoned a century ago after a terrible plague)

Maelwys
City-Born-Human Half-Elf Rogue
Age: 107 (middle aged)
Features: Looks like a less vamped, more elf-ed up version of Craven from Underworld

Wil B6
Per B5
Pow B4
For B4
Agi B7
Spe G6

Health B5
Steel B8
Hesitation 4
Reflexes B7
Mortal Wound B10

Lifepaths:
City Born, Prostitute, Criminal x2, Apprentice, Locksmith, Journeyman, Master Craftsman, Adviser to Court (2 yrs), Gaol, Master Craftsman x4

Reputations: One of the world's greatest locksmiths 3D; Infamous among nobles and gossips 2D
Affiliations: Thieves' Guild 3D, Adventurer's Guild 2D
Circles: B5 (City, Outcast, Noble Court) - partially cut-off now by choice
Resources: B8

Stuff: Small farm estate with several small cottages on it and a workshop. Locksmith & thief tools, printed volumes, writing supplies, traveling gear, clothes, shoes, finery, pieces of quality leather armor, Dwarven mail shirt, superior quality sword, dagger, hunting bow, and knives.

Traits: Fey Blood: Elf: Calm Demeanor, Tolerant, Poker Face, Steady Hands, Made Man, Ambitious Charismatic, Handsome, Graceful, Quickened Pulse, Drug Addict (I dropped a few LP traits that he's outgrown)

Weapon Skills: Knives G8, Bow B7, Sword B7, Throwing B8, Precision Training
Other Skills: Haggling B7, Falsehood B6, Intimidation B6, Persuasion G8, Locksmith G8, Inconspicuous B8, Mending B8, Climbing G6, Observation B5, Sleight of Hand B7, Stealthy G6, Appraisal B7, Seduction B6, Read B5, Write B6, Child-Rearing B6, Riding B6, Conspicuous B6
Wises: Streetwise B6, Craftsman-wise B6, Gaol-wise B5, Artisan-wise B6, Merchant-wise B6, Noble-wise B5, Lock-wise, G8.
Also (as a necessary carry-over from D&D): can speak and read elven and gnomish. I guess B5.

Relationships:
Nharri (romantic, wife in all but name) & Matos (son, age 8)
Song (romantic, wife in all but name) & Elac (son, age 4) & Aleini (daughter, newborn)
Haelan (adult daughter) & Jaedan (grandson, age 10)
Laith (close friend)
Brynne (PC gnome bard - occasional employee, friend of family)
Everyone above lives in the various cottages on his land.
Glyn (adult son, hates father, whereabouts unknown)
Karmi (PC half-elf druid - steamy love affair)

Beliefs:
1. I have fought and climbed my way to the top and found only darkness. That which never had to be climbed in the first place is most worthwhile.
2. I will pass my skills on to the young elite. This will be facilitated by remodeling The Pit into a secret, safe training ground.
3. I will persuade Karmi to be my partner.

Instincts:
1. If there's pleasure to be had, drink it deeply.
2. It it threatens my family, destroy it.
3. Always keep a knife concealed on my person.

Whew! Probably should have started with some easier NPCs! Feel free (anyone) to give some feedback - he's not set in stone yet.

[EarthenForge]

Oh why not, I'll post the info on Maelwys' best buddy, too. My players love this NPC tiefling, which works for me, cuz I love every moment I get to play him. Not at all a normal burning here.

Laith
Powerful Hell-born-tiefling turned weakish faith-saved man
Age: 28
Appearance: Kinda like Sting. With 2 inch horns and red-brown eyes. And a lightning bolt mark on his forehead.

Wil B5
Per B5
Pow B3
For B3
Agi B6
Spe B6

Health B3
Steel B7
Hesitation 5
Faith B3
Reflexes B5
Mortal Wound B9

Lifepaths: Uh, I really just used these as a guideline, but following the Orc Great & Black LPs for his life in Avernus (Baator, Hell) actually works. Born Great, The Rites, Follower, Named and then...bam! Paladins pull him from his hateful life, convert him, and their god Heironeous marks him, strips him of some of his powers and promises to protect him from his pit lord as long as he stays faithful. Then he's more or less left to fend for himself on earth. Mannish LP: Urchin. Overwhelmed by city, now works for Maelwys.

Reputation: Traitorous blasphemer (in Hell) 1D
Affiliation: Church of Heironeous 1D
Circles: B2 (maybe little corners of city, outcast, hell, church)
Resources: B1

Traits: Tainted Legacy (1/4 Devil), Resistant to Fire, Minor devilish features (small horns, red-brown eyes, sweat smells of sulfur), mark of the pit lord, Life is Death, Silent Hatred, Thousand-Yard Stare.
Post-conversion traits: Lawbreaker, mark of a god, broken, faithful, sickly

Skills: Knives B7, Mace B6, Axe B6, Armor Training, Intimidation B8, Command B5, Torture B6, Brawling B7, Falsehood B5, Demonology B5, Hell-wise B5, Pit-wise B5.
Post-conversion skills: Inconspicuous B5, Stealthy B7, Streetwise, Read B5, Write B5, Poetry B5.

Relationships:
Maelwys (good friend, employer)
Nharri & Song & kids (sort of a surrogate family)
Pia the High Priestess & Lily the Paladin (faith friends, patient teachers)
Pit Lord - previously "apprenticed" to, now out to kill me
Brynne - (PC gnome bard) sweetest friend
Rushing Wind - (Nymph) may try to kill me if she sees me again

Beliefs: Kinda long, but this guy is still trying to figure a lot of things out.
1. Life is brutal: I cannot escape what I was or fully embrace what I am. Like it or not, my faith is my survival. (Staying in Heironeous' favor keeps the pit lord and his minions from taking me.)
2. "Faith, Hope, and Love" - one day I will unlock this enigma. I think friends like Brynne are my best bet - stay close.
3. I despise my weakness and reliance on others. I will yet find a way to stand on my own.

Instincts:
1. Always maintain self-control: Abstain from drinking, drugs, sex, and violence - they may bring forth my sadistic nature.
2. If my will fails - enter the above with lusty abandon.
3. Seek warmth and darkness when stressed.

This extra BIT is from his conversion experience: Never kill anything again, EVER. This was Heironeous' command. Disobey, and I may parish.

Again, this isn't set in stone. Feel free to comment.

[pseudoidiot]

Instincts:
1. Always maintain self-control: Abstain from drinking, drugs, sex, and violence - they may bring forth my sadistic nature.
2. If my will fails - enter the above with lusty abandon.


That's definitely one of the most awesome sets of instincts I've seen.

[EarthenForge]

That's definitely one of the most awesome sets of instincts I've seen.

Why thank you! ::beams::

In play, he has yet to act on #2, but the dark side of his duality has boiled close to the surface a few times. I think it might break through once we convert to BW and everything becomes a little more intense. We'll see - it'll definitely be interesting.

That reminds me, I'm quite pleased with my players already because ever since we started talking about converting to BW and the principles behind it, they've been roleplaying better. Just talking about how much fun inter-party conflict can be has loosened some hesitancy they've had and now their characters, who should be arguing because some of them are so different, are.

Things are still on track according to my plan. We played our very last session of D&D this past week, and I'm getting ready to run The Sword this week. I'll have to split them up and run it twice. Kinda feels like I'm studying for a final - there's so much to know! It's all fun, but learning a new game system without the benefit of someone teaching you in person definitely takes more time.

Thank goodness for the forums - I've learned so much from you guys! :D

[EarthenForge]

Ok, we finally ran The Sword. It was far from perfect, but overall, I'm pretty pleased...

It was the night of Halloween and I figured I'd only have a few of my players to deal with, but I ended up with 7 of my 8. I was hoping there'd be time to run it twice and just split up the group, but things were pretty chaotic at the player's house, and it started getting late. It was all couples, so we decided each couple and Xenomouse would play a character. Normally I would think this to be a terrible idea, but I thought with these guys it might work out okay and it did.

I tried to be pretty careful about what to introduce. A couple of my players could probably handle switching systems every month, but I sensed a couple of the others were already in overwhelmed-mode the second I opened my mouth. I wanted to emphasize beliefs, intent, and task most of all, as Thor recommended, and I was already planning to use Bloody verses battles should combat arise. Here's what went down:

I read the basic set up for the scene, discussed the highlights of each character, let them choose, and gave them a couple of minutes to take in their character sheets, giving brief explanations here and there. Then I let them go at it.

At first it seemed like they were being comically polite with each other, but their argument got heated when they realized just how conflicting their goals were. The dwarf and criminal were actually the first to go for the sword and made opposing Speed or Agility (can't remember) tests. They tied, leaving them glaring at each other, each with his hand on the sword. The elf grabs hold as well, but is mostly ignored as the criminal and dwarf engaged in a Duel of Wits. The stakes were over who got to claim the sword. This went pretty well - everyone got involved. The elf helped the criminal and the roden switched back and forth. The dwarf won, but his body of argument was cut in half, so he offered his armor and some nog to the criminal, who accepted and let go of the sword.

The elf was still holding on, however, and the roden got angrier and more insistent on his payment. The dwarf refused to get into a DoW with the elf, so there was a power struggle over the sword: a deadlock.

The dwarf then tried a different tact. He has a little discussion with the roden and suddenly lets go of the sword. "Fine. Pay the rat" he says to the elf. The elf readily agrees and then realizes how poor he is. Opps! He appeals to the criminal to pool resources by letting the criminal hold the sword temporarily. The elf also uses some artha, but still doesn't come up with enough. We all agree that he still pays the rat half. Meanwhile, the dwarf starts peaking around the room looking for something interesting, but rolls all traitors - he certainly *does* find something interesting, but it's a slimy thing lurking in the shadows and growling angrily at him!

All at once, the criminal takes advantage of everyone else's distraction and bolts with the sword. The same time that the elf and roden run after him, the dwarf is running from the creepy thing. With a speed test, the criminal outruns them all and disappears into the busy city streets. I thought about ending the scenario here, but they were eager to continue, so...

The roden gets really pissed and puts his foot down about proper payment. The dwarf pays him his other half and the roden agrees to help find the criminal.

The criminal hides out in a crowded bar for a bit, then makes a desperate circles check to find someone who'll buy the sword. He's finds a shady buyer who doesn't offer much. The criminal haggles a bit, winning both times, then quickly exits with the cash, to go pay his debts.

Meanwhile, the elf, dwarf, and roden use their circles to try and find someone who's seen this criminal. They don't succeed, but are pointed in the direction of a specialty swords dealer. He tells them to come back later and uses *his* circles to find this sword. It works! But he wants a lot of money for it. They forget to haggle. He offers to hold the sword for a down-payment. The elf offers his armor and sword as collateral. Everyone splits up "to find more resources." The elf "gets a job" and wows an audience with his mad skillz. He does great, but he's still just a little short, so he tries his hand at gambling, fails.

The roden doesn't do much, but that sneaky dwarf again! - He goes back to the sword shop in the evening and intends to "pick the lock before before the owner gets back." *Completely* fails, so he's caught with his picks in the door just as the owner comes back for something he forgot. Bloody verses ensues, but the dwarf just wants to knock him out, which he does. Then he takes the shop owner's keys, walks through the door, and triumphantly takes the sword! In a final moment of "suck it, world!", he burns down the shop and runs away. The end.

The crazy thing is, pretty much everyone got what they wanted except for the elf.

Next week, I'll be running The Gift for them, and I hope to emphasize intent a bit more carefully, as well as tighten up some of the stuff we got loose on. We might try a full Fight! if it comes to that.

Not everyone was sold by the end of the session, and we're all still trying to brake our D&D mentality, but we had a *really* good debriefing and general conversation about BW afterwards. We went over all their beliefs and instincts and discussed which ones they acted out really well, and how they would have gotten artha for this or that. This lead to a longer discussion on BITs and they started getting excited about converting their characters, already coming up with ideas.

The thing I find most encouraging is that two of them are planning on buying the books - that's going to make all of this much better for everyone.

Anyway, feel free to comment.

[Kublai]

Hurray for The Sword!

[Drozdal]

I really dig the fact that you played way past the sword scene - usage of Circles to find the other character hiding in the city - hot!

Good job and good players, who - seeing the monster lurking in the shadows abandoned their DnD instincts to kill it and went with their beliefs!

[luke]

Yeah. Good job running with the tests and failures in the city. Making failure interesting is a key Burning Wheel skill.

[EarthenForge]

W00t! Thanks guys! :D

[EarthenForge]

So I ran The Gift.
I was a bit nervous over how it would go since I didn't have the character info as committed to memory as I'd hoped, and I hadn't had much of a chance to reread the sections on elven grief and dwarven greed. Overall, though, I'd say it was a success. All 8 of my players were there. It was our turn to host so I put them in good spirits with freshly baked bread and pumpkin lasagna (let it never be said that you can't FoRK cooking into persuasion tests). The game then went something like this:

Once the elves arrived in the hall, introductions were made, and they all started talking for a bit. With a little prodding, they started to make a bigger deal about the gift, or lack thereof. The elves tried to offer up the Tome of Lore, but no one was making much headway. Then the dwarfs noticed the mithril armor on Finrir, the elven prince. They all failed greed tests except Uncle Oxen who used artha. This made a mess of the negotiations, and they started really picking at each other. Finally a Duel of Wits was called for.

Alitanur, the elven ranger, was trying to convince Ferun, the dwarven warden that the Tome of Lore was a good gift, while Ferun wanted Alitanur to realize such a gift was worthless to dwarfs. Lots of FoRKs and helping dice on both sides. The warden crushed the ranger in the argument. End scene.

That evening, each side had a chance to discuss matters amongst themselves. Oxen almost immediately rounds on Ferun. He's annoyed that Ferun is making negotiations MUCH more difficult. They have a heated argument, but Oxen actually starts a DoW with Prince Vost. He wants Vost to realize that Ferun and Kol, the seneschal, are morons. Vost argues back that if Oxen thinks that, then HE must be the moron. Vost of course gets helping dice from Ferun and Kol, but he stills gets verbally annihilated by Oxen (who I think used some serious artha for this). This puts the prince in a bit of a pickle and he's pretty much forced to break a belief. Ferun and Kol get a little tighter as they are now both in the position of fighting for their worth to their naive prince. Oxen tries to sooth his shaken nephew by buying him a shiny (slightly nicked), superior quality sword. It helps.

(Alitanur, meanwhile, is using Threne of the Chameleon to listen in on the dwarfs. The elves had many arguments themselves, but they were reluctant to solve anything in a DoW.) End scene.

Breakfast. Eonwe, the swordsinger captain, who has been pushing hard for peaceful resolution, is frustrated and attempts to intimidate Vost with a powerful song. He succeeds, but it only serves to start things off on the wrong foot. Oxen then gets an idea and suggests a singing competition. His intent is to stir up greed in his fellow dwarfs from the elf song to distract them from the mithril, which they're kind of stuck on. An interesting idea, but Oxen ends up singing JUST as well. Oxen then tries to be supportive of Finrir and this leads to a discussion among the princes. Nothing is getting solved, though, and they seem reluctant to have another DoW. Finrir is almost ready to give up his mithril when the ranger puts his foot down and refuses to allow such an offensive transaction to occur. More arguing.

Some of the other players started getting antsy at this point and took great pleasure in drawing penises on our wipe-off DoW sheets. (I know, I know, fellow GMs of the world are drooling with jealously.) Finally, Kol gets sick of waiting and interrupts the princes as he succumbs to his mithril greed. Oxen tries to stop him, but Kol muscles past with artha. The ranger readies his bow. Shouting ensues.

And then. And THEN: Vost gets so feed up from being disrespected by EVERYONE that he throws down the Tome (which he was holding), destroys it with his shiny sword, and screams at the elves to leave. Pretty much everyone draws their weapons by now, and the ranger sends an arrow into Vost. Kol and Oxen thrust themselves toward the prince and try to protect him as they usher him away. Finir is coming at them and he's PISSED. Ferun, meanwhile, is running after the ranger, but the ranger escapes. Ferun locks him out and returns to his prince. The ranger stays hidden and watches the action with Air of Gates.

The princes get their showdown. Bloody verses. No one can stop them. Vost gets injured again, but then he uses a deeds and persona artha for one last mighty blow: a superb hit with his axe that takes Finrir's head clean off. Vost, bleeding, then collapses next to the body and gently fingers the beautiful mitril. The elves, of course are completely shocked. Eonwe hits his max grief and passes into the West. Alitanur, the ranger, is so undone he shoves an arrow through his eye. That leaves Riil to return home by himself and tell everyone what an absolute disgrace he is.

And that's that. I don't think we were as creative with this demo as we were with The Sword, but overall everyone seemed to get into it and get more familiar with the system. There's still so much to learn, though! We had another good follow-up discussion accompanied by sweet potato pie. One thing that delighted some of my players was the pace. In D&D, when things get exciting, the pace S-L-O-W-S down. But in BW, it gets frantic and exciting. Things happen really fast. BIG things. It makes it almost as fun to discuss afterward as it is to play it, because you can finally breathe and process what just happened.

So now the real work of conversion begins. That'll be our next session. And I think everyone's pretty pumped.

[Kublai]

Nice! Your group may very well become the poster child for BW conversion.

[Mel White]

Wow, really neat play of 'the Gift'!
Mel

[EarthenForge]

Back to this thread!

Guys, I could really use your help. We had our character conversion party last night and it went pretty well overall. One guy wasn't able to make it, we only had two sets of books for 7 people, and I have a LOT of stuff to fill in before the next session, but they did a good job of trying to great across their character concepts, choosing lifepaths, and so forth. I typed up info sheets on beliefs and instincts using guidelines from the book and wiki, along with examples from the forums and they all struggled (in a good way) to figure out their BITs. But that's where I would love your help. Some of their BITs are excellent, some really need work, and I was wondering if you would provide a little feedback.

Here's what we have so far (first 3 are beliefs, next 3 are instincts):

a) Brynne: female gnome bard/cook, young & sweet
1. I want to help Laith stop hurting.
2. Since I don't have any place that I really fit here, I should soak up as much experience as I can and pour it into my songs.
3. I don't like it when my party members argue and I don't want to get involved, but sometimes I just have to say what's on my mind or I'll burst!
4. Always seize opportunities to learn more about how things work, and to learn new skills.
5. If it's within my power to make someone else happy, then I should.
6. Show my appreciation for my friends with food and song.

b) Bruya: male half-elf ranger and great archer, but insecure
1. People who are untrustworthy should be shunned or killed.
2. I will become an important person by learning from people around me - especially Devon.
3. A friend's priority should me mine as well.
4. If someone threatens me, shoot first.
5. When friends start a group activity, don't be left out.
6. Don't trust someone until we've shared a meal or a drink.

c) Salvatore: male half-elf bard, gay, impulsive loner
1. Life is meant to be enjoyed. Make the most of it and try everything once.
2. Life on the road alone is getting old. I should get to know Cobb, Rheinhart, and Devon better by asking them questions about themselves and hunting with them.
3. Gus is the only real friend I've ever had. Stick with her and help her achieve her goals.
4. When in a bar, busk. (Uh, that means public entertainment for tips)
5. Protect myself and my stuff before anything else.
6. Try to pocket a little more than my share of the spoils.

d) Gus: female half-elf druid, man-disliking lesbian, young and opinionated noble runaway
1. There is a place for me somewhere and I will find it. Redynvar is a place to start.
2. My father is evil and I will not set eyes on him again unless I know I can kill him.
3. To start my life, I need reputation and riches. Working for the Duke and other nobility must be endured because it is the way to get them.
4. Authority corrupts; avoid at all costs.
5. Never take what a man says at face value.
6. If I encounter orcs, I will kill them.

e) Devon: male human brawler, friendly, tends to act first, think later.
1. I will pursue fame and power and use it to help the downtrodden.
2. I will work towards becoming a world-renowned prize fighter by becoming the champion of New Belisama.
3. I will confront Redynvar about her role in the deaths of the orcs to determine if she/he can be trusted.
4. Always wear armor when in unfamiliar areas.
5. After a battle, tend to the fallen.
6. After work is done, go to the local bar (if one is nearby).

f) Cobb: male gnome sorcerer (spell abstraction), impulsive, curious prankster.
1. Pranks should be harmless, neither destroying person or property. Illusions are a safe bet.
2. Karmi has an inner sadness. I will make her happy by investing in her goals.
3. ?
4. Always diffuse conflicts or boredom with humorous pranks.
5. Acknowledge kindred spirits (like Karmi and Garrin) and keep them close.
6. ?

g) Karmi: female half-elf druid, bisexual, quietly wise, drop dead gorgeous: her milkshake brings all the boys to the yard...
1. I will find out where my brother is and rescue him.
2. Cobb is funny - find a way to keep him around me.
3. I will discover myself and my future in this new world. Allow myself to love first, and where that leads, follow.
4. Give second chances, unless the offense has threatened the life of one I love.
5. Never turn down an adventure.
6. When meeting new people, make friends and flirt.

I'm pretty bummed: no one picked "never waste a good corpse" as their instinct. ;)

[Fuseboy]

You seem to have a cooperative bunch, which is good; judging by the number of beliefs that refer to other players, they're trying to create some cohesion.

My first reaction is that I ought to be able to tell what the game is about from the characters' beliefs, and I can't in this case. You seem to have characters that are compatible with the plot, rather than characters that are responsible for the plot.

They need a shared, long-term goal, so that the characters have a motive to cooperate, earn tests Helping, earn Artha together, etc.

Only a few of the beliefs are actionable (i.e. have a concrete , medium -or short-term objective), which may starve your players of vital Persona points once they run out of their initial allotment.

The character's outlook, even fundamental aspects of it (e.g. D&D alignment, or religious beliefs), needn't be beliefs - they can be BW traits. For BW Beliefs (which is a slightly misleading name, I think) you're really looking for parts of the character's outlook that put him/her in conflict, so much so that it spurs the character to do something.

Then you write your beliefs:

"Because [some long-term goal or element of my outlook], I must [some goal conceivably achievable in a session or two at most which will earn me a Persona point]."

A really inspirational film for me re: BW beliefs is Brick. Try to imagine it as a published adventure - you can't! Practically every scene is initiated by the protagonist; his actions are the story. Rather than him reacting to goings on around him, the world is responding to him.

[EarthenForge]

Thank you so much, Mike!

I think that was the objective kick my/our floundering needed. I was planning on hanging out with a few of them last night, so I printed out your post, which they eagerly read. There were a few aha!-moments as they realized the importance of both mini-steps to larger goals and of having an overarching group goal. They're going to refine their BITs, but they also want to just TRY playing them to see what works and what doesn't. There's going to be a lot of tweaking going on in our first few sessions. And ya know what? That's okay.

At first I thought the overarching goal might be impossible to figure out, but really, many of their beliefs point towards finding a place for themselves on this new and wild continent they've immigrated to. I think that something along the lines of making Taranis a safe and peaceful place is an actionable element behind their desires. It's something that may never fully be achieved, but there are a TON of steps they can take that will bring them closer to the ideal. It seems to unify the many directions their adventures could go and make failure a more powerful motivator. They, of course, will need to figure out how best to write that goal for their characters. And they'll all have different ideas on how this goal should be achieved which means CONFLICT!

[EarthenForge]

I put the above idea through a refiner's fire today. I really want to push the BW paradox of conflict and unity so that our game is awesome, not just slightly better than what we had. This means I have to lay things out in no uncertain terms or else they'll pussyfoot around issues and we'll all fall back into D&D hook & adventure mode. This is what I'm telling them:

The fate of Taranis is in your hands. There are forces at work that will tear this continent - and it's cultures - apart. You must decide what those forces are and what you plan to do about them. One of your three beliefs must read like this:

"Taranis is in danger. [This, simply put, is what I believe the danger is]. [This is the first step I will take against this danger]."

To test this, I came up with a few examples:
1. "Taranis is in danger. The dragon will destroy the colony. I will find the location of the lair."
2. "Taranis is in danger. Vortigern is squeezing our resources too hard. I will find a more profitable crop to plant."
3. "Taranis is in danger. Criminals like Maelwys are allowed to run free, unhindered. I will kill him myself."

I like my results. Everyone would have the same theme running through their beliefs, but with very different ideas. I can see more explosive conflicts and character-driven world-shaping now more than ever.

[Mel White]

I like your results, too. I think the impact on the game will be very measurable.
Mel

[Kublai]

Looking at the PC's beliefs, I am disappointed! There's no focus at all.

One Belief must be about the campaign goal. One Belief must be about another character. Third belief may be about anything, but how about a personal goal.

-The dragon burned my village down. I must find a sword that will allow me to kill it.
-Though I am but an inexperienced farmer, Gildun (a PC) is a master swordsman. I will persuade him to train me.
-By leading my fellow villagers on this quest, I will prove that I am the best choice to become the village headman.

Also, regarding Instincts, a lot of them are going to be very hard to test during the game. Go over them with each of the characters and ask them directly, "How do you see me using this against or for you during the adventure?" If they can't come up with several examples, change it. I prefer to have my players write instincts that can be defined by BW mechanics and skills. "When in the city, I am always Inconspicous." "When it's time to divvy the loot, I Sleight of Hand myself a bigger share." "Always cast spells Patiently and Carefully."

Many of the ones I see above are more like Beliefs, like this one: "Authority corrupts; avoid at all costs." Can it be defined in a more micro scale? "When I see a city guard, I leave the area immediately!" or "Never accept a promotion."

[EarthenForge]

Looking at those beliefs, I am disappointed! There's no focus at all.

One Belief must be about the campaign goal. One Belief must be about another character. Third belief may be about anything, but how about a personal goal.

-The dragon burned my village down. I must find a sword that will allow me to kill it.
-Though I am but an inexperienced farmer, Gildun (a PC) is a master swordsman. I will persuade him to train me.
-By leading my fellow villagers on this quest, I will prove that I am the best choice to become the village headman.

Crap - hang on. Are you disappointed by the PCs beliefs (that long list a few posts back) or by the list of three examples I just gave? Cuz the examples I just gave were merely brainstorm ideas for a PC's first belief, not all three of them...

[Kublai]

Ha! No, you're new ideas are fantastic. I was disappointed with the PCs Beliefs. If you're going to run a game for this many people, they need to help you out by having sharp, defined Beliefs. Otherwise, it's going to get muddy.

[EarthenForge]

Ha! No, you're new ideas are fantastic. I was disappointed with the PCs Beliefs. If you're going to run a game for this many people, they need to help you out by having sharp, defined Beliefs. Otherwise, it's going to get muddy.

Ahh. ::mops forehead in relief::

Yes, I definitely agree that a lot of changes need to be made to the PCs B&Is. We're all struggling with this - although I have a better idea of how it's supposed to look than they do, it's not ingrained enough in my head yet to snap out every change they need to make. Also, a few of them just really haven't gotten it yet. They still think they can play their characters the same way...it's an uphill battle and it sucks sometimes being the only one with a clearer vision. On the bright side, though, it won't be that way for long. A couple of them are ready to tear through their books as soon as they arrive - that should help a lot.

Thanks for your imput - it clarifies a few things. We'll get out of this mucky mud-pit soon...

[EarthenForge]

We were supposed to start playing our converted game tonight, but as you can see from the last posts, we still had a lot to hash out, so it ended up being another character burning session. I set out fairly strict guidelines and pushed my rebellious players hard. There was a fair amount of frustration over this, but I think everyone is happy with the results and now their vision is much clearer. They finally got past being pissed at me for not being more straightforward with the future of the campaign to realizing that they could shape the future themselves. If I weren't so utterly exhausted, I might just feel like a proud parent.

This is the format they were all required to follow for their Beliefs:
1. A campaign goal. Must start, "Taranis is in danger. [This is the danger]. [This is the first step towards addressing the danger].
2. Must involve a PC.
3. Player's choice - something involving a main NPC or a personal goal.
(Main NPCs: Maelwys, Laith, Redynvar, the Duke)

So, Bs&Is, take two (first 3 are beliefs, next 3 are instincts):

a) Brynne: female gnome bard/cook, young & sweet
1. Taranis is in danger - there are dangers in the forest that the colonists don't know about. Maelwys' training school is the best option we have to arm the colony. I will talk to Maelwys and see if there is anything I can do to help.
2. I felt very helpless when we fought the orcs. Devon is so strong - get him to teach me how to box.
3. It makes me sad to see Laith hurting. I'm going to sing him my song to cheer him up. [The player promptly wrote a song - fun!]
4. Always seize opportunities to learn more about how things work, and to learn new skills.
5. When I'm hungry, cook enough food for everyone.
6. When I'm not sure what else to do, I will sing songs and gather content for new songs.

b) Bruya: male half-elf ranger and great archer, but insecure
1.Taranis is in danger. There may be people in power who don't keep their promises. I will find out if the Duke is deceitful, and if he is, expose him.
2. Brynne needs protection. I will help our party survive by defending her when she is in danger.
3. I've never been important. I will become a respected and admired hunter. Befriend a Sidhe hunter and learn his/her methods.
4.When threatened with physical violence, shoot first.
5. When my friends are making a decision, convince one of them that I am right.
6. Don't give out information to someone until we've shared a meal or drink.

c) Salvatore: male half-elf bard, gay, impulsive loner
1. Taranis is in danger - traveling is perilous. I will chart a route between New Belisama and Tir Nan Og.
2. Gus is the only real friend I've ever had. Stick with her and help her defeat the sorceress.
3. Life is meant to be enjoyed. Make the most of it by trying a new, mind-altering substance. [Yes, he actually plans to earn artha by using drugs. At least this ties him to Maelwys.]
4. When in a bar, busk.
5. If in sudden danger, always protect myself and my stuff before anything else.
6. Sleight of hand myself a little more than my share of the spoils.

d) Gus: female half-elf druid, man-disliking lesbian, young and opinionated noble runaway
1. Taranis is in danger of becoming a haven of intolerance. I will found a safe community [for Redynvar, my friends, and I] by finding the sorceress' hidden treasure.
2. Because he sacrificed his life for my goals, I will set up a trust fund for Sal.
3. I want to be more connected to the Sidhe. I will convince Cail to give me another tattoo.
4. Never take what a man says at face value.
5. If I ever encounter orcs I will kill them.
6. Authority corrupts. Never become a ruler.

e) Devon: male human brawler, friendly, tends to act first, think later.
1. Taranis is in danger. There are many who are willing to wantonly take life. Confront Redynvar to ensure he/she is not of this inclination.
2. Rheinhardt seems to be holding something back about his past. Confront him about this.
3. I will work towards becoming the champion brawler or boxer of New Belisama by entering the next tournament.
4. Always wear armor when in unfamiliar areas.
5. After a battle, use field dressing to tend to the fallen.
6. After work is done, go to the local bar (if one is nearby).

f) Cobb: male gnome sorcerer (spell abstraction), impulsive, curious prankster.
1. Taranis is in danger: the sorceress may have caused the original plague and may cause it again. Find out if this is true and neutralize her.
2. Karmi has an inner sadness. Make her happy by helping her find her brother.
3. "Hide the bride" is a fun game - up the challenge with magic.
4. Always diffusing conflicts and boredom with humorous pranks and jokes.
5. When the Duke's daughter is around, dote on Karmi or use Inconspicuous.
6. In a fight I will humiliate my opponent rather than strike a finishing blow.

g) Karmi: female half-elf druid, bisexual, quietly wise, drop dead gorgeous: her milkshake brings all the boys to the yard...
1. Taranis and my brother are endangered by an evil sorceress. I will find and defeat her for the sake of those I love.
2. Cobb is funny - find a way to keep him around me.
3. I will discover myself and my future in this new world: allow myself to love first, and where that leads, follow.
4. Give second chances, unless the offense has threatened the life of one I love.
5. Never turn down an adventure.
6. When meeting new people, make friends and flirt.

h) Rheinhardt: male elf rogue, proud, mysterious, and bit greedy.
1. Taranis is being threatened by an army of orcs. Orcs killed my family, and forced me to survive on my own. I want to rid Taranis of the orc invaders. First step: seek info on the origin of the destroyed orc clan.
2. I want to beat Devon in a non-lethal fight.
3. I want to become the greatest treasure hunter ever. First step: Find out if the sorceress has a stash of goodies.
4. Never sing in the presence of someone who hasn't demonstrated trustworthiness.
5. If I kill an orc, then I put a notch in my sword.
6. Always prove my skills to those who question them.

Gah! I totally let a few slip through the cracks - esp. Karmi's. Arrrgh. It's not enough to stop the game from starting next week, but that's annoying. Ah well. I think I can safely say their Bs&Is are much better. It's kind of funny - they're bringing some very traditional adventure-y type stuff into the story, but they own it now, so they're more excited about it. My guess is, they'll finish up with the Sidhe, head back to the colony to tie up some personal details, and argue a bit over whether to pursue the orcs or the sorceress first. I'm kinda looking forward to the inevitable conflict they've created for themselves over dividing spoils.

Hey - Happy Thanksgiving!

[EarthenForge]

Hmmm...I'm guessing some of you still think the above Bs&Is aren't focused enough. That may be true, but 6 of the 8 have Beliefs that tie into the sorceress already and by the time they've gone back to the colony, a few of their beliefs will have already been rewritten as they complete some small goals and learn just how much their careful wording matters. That should give me plenty of time to give the other 2 reasons that this sorceress is a threat right now.

[Kublai]

So the Beliefs don't tell me exactly what the campaign goal is. I can see some definite adventure arcs, but not one unifying conflict. What is the unifying goal that everyone is working towards?

[EarthenForge]

So the Beliefs don't tell me exactly what the campaign goal is. I can see some definite adventure arcs, but not one unifying conflict. What is the unifying goal that everyone is working towards?

We decided part of what's making this difficult is that they're sort of in-between story arcs. They are finishing up a big one with the Sidhe - slaves they freed and escorted to safety (a session ago, this would have been part of all of their beliefs, but it's a little late now) - and the next one isn't clearly set up. This is partly my fault and partly the result of a game system that relies strongly on hooks. Since they were n00bs when we started playing, I didn't want to pull them into one strong arc, but decided to let them play into some smaller ones that would build into something larger as they leveled up and became more capable as players and characters. So as a group, they've been stepping from one arc into another. They've fought and bled together - thus bonding somewhat, but they do not yet share a vision. That said, from the conversations we've had this much is clear to me:

All the characters are at least somewhat concerned about the success of Taranis. Each one of them has left their previous home and life to make a new home there, so it's in their best interest to make this fragile, wild land a safe place. This is their unifying goal. Finding and dealing with the sorceress will soon be their unifying conflict within that goal. All of them agree that she's a threat, and by the end of the next session, I will give them reason to make her a priority, and thus be part of everyone's beliefs. The next session requires a bit of housecleaning - tying up little bits of story and relationships before they plunge into the next big thing - this will also help free up some beliefs. That's my take on it. If you have some suggestions or good examples of beliefs that can tie a big group together, I'm all ears (I can't really look to the conflict-heavy one-shot sessions for help - a long term game for a big groups needs a balance of inner conflict and outer goals).