Against the Horde

[cmoeller]

So, coming to terms with the fact that I'm a firefight addict, I've talked Per and Chris Joul into joining in a multi-unit fight. This is a ground action. I'm the Vaylen (but of course), and Per and Chris will each field a separate unit agin me. Ready boys?

My unit concept is this: I'm the leader of a Vaylen enclave on the planet of Shimizu. I've slowly infiltrated and hulled an entire rural village (think Stepford Wives), and built a sophisticated Ksatriyen breeding facility underneath town hall. As Shimizu's been infiltrated heavily at this point, and my clan's fleets are due to arrive in a few weeks, my mob, along with cells all over the planet, are coming out of hiding. We're ready to go fifth column on the humans... power plants, communications networks, urban centers... it's all fair game to my monsters.

As our scenario begins, one of my Ksatriyen hordes is approaching a communications hub in the foothills of the Blackrock mountain range, burning, eating and hulling everything in sight.

I'll burn and post my leader presently.

[chris_worm]

OK sounds cool.

My force consists of short platoon of militia, who have been conducting a gurella training excersise in the blackrock area. They have heard the distress calls from the local populace and their commander has decided to lead them in response. Victor Thorne is their leader, a fomer member of the circle of 10K (and codebreaker), who has been serving the Anvil lord of this planet in return to some protection from his past. However the Anvil lord doesn't respect (or trust him fully) and so has assigned him the command of his lesser (non-iron) forces. Victor sees this as an oportunity to gain respect, honor, and power as this world falls into open conflict with the Vaylen.

I'll post Victor in a while.

Oh and to distinguish me from the other chris in this thread for this firefight refer to me as CJ.

[pfischer]

Nasty.

OK, bear with me, guys if I'm not responding as quickfire as usual, but I have a tight gaming schedule this week. Not complaining, Just sayin' ;P

I'll return with a clever answer asap.

Hi CJ, nice to meet you :)

[pfischer]

Imgo Engel and his small elite anvil unit has been deployed from planet command to secure the comm station. This is being dealt with as a "minor incident".

Engel's unit, clad in blue-grey anvil, are dropped from low altitude a few clicks from the station, right at the foot of the mountains, and Vogell, the team's comm specialist immediately sets out to spot the enemy.

[chris_worm]

Ok Sounds good - Great to meet you too Per.

I'd just like to check the burning rules - 6 LP commander and 4 LP 2iC - is that right?

[Paul B]

Awesome.

Next time I run a BE campaign, I'm pretty sure we're gonna do it in the Invasion phase so that we can have a badass firefight every session.

p.

[cmoeller]

One of my guys' complaints is that firefights feel very one-on-one. Sure, the players who aren't running things can help, but firefights can go on for a while, and eventually they end up wandering off or listening to their iPods. I'm hoping if we can up into multiple units, they'll buy in more.

-Chris

[Paul B]

I think that's a fair complaint, actually. Same thing happened in my last couple BE games (the martial characters had all the fun; everyone else sat around, played Xbox, etc.). Which is why I'm thinking next time it's Invasion and everyone is, by default, involved in the military somehow and/or is battlefield-competent.

p.

[cmoeller]

Or maybe everyone burns up an additional "shadow character" who's an important soldier at the scene of any firefight their main character can't attend. When the unit goes into battle, players jump into their kagemusha and blaze away :)

-Chris

[chris_worm]

OK I guess I got done burning first - so I'm first to post my characters - does that get me 1D advantage to the initial contact roll?
GM: "No!"
Oh well you can't blame a guy for trying.

OK here is Anvil Captain Victor Thorne and his 2iC Sergent Brakus - if there are any comments please let me know.

CJ

Victor Thorne
Human, Age: 43

Lifepaths: Born2Rule -> Lead to Foundations -> Novitiate -> Circle of 10k -> Lead to Outcast -> Freebooter -> Lead to Anvil -> Lieutenant -> Anvil Captain

Beliefs and Instincts:
War is coming to this world, it is my opportunity to gain respect and glory; therefore I will lead my forces in defense of the people.
I may not be from this world, but I will be accepted by its nobility; first I will find a suitable widow to woo.
It is my destiny to be an Anvil Lord; first I must obtain myself Iron.

Always keep a connection to Sergeant Brakus.
If alone with another psychologist duel them.
Never be the first to open fire.

Stats:
Will 6, Perception 6, Agility 3, Speed 3, Power 3, Forte 4
Steel 9, Hesitation 3

Artha: Fate 3, Persona 2, Deeds 0

Resources: 5

Technology:
Anvil Armor (AT3), Jack Laser, Portable Battlefield Multi-Scan, Morale Amplifier

Circles: 3

Affiliations:
Nobility 1D
Circle of 10K 1D
Anvil Forces 2D

Reputations:
(infamous) Code-breaker (Psychologists) 1D
(infamous) Psychologist (Outside Karsan League) 1D
Psychologist (Inside Karsan League) 1D
Captain of the ‘Jack Militia’ 2D

Relationships:
(free) Sergeant Brakus
(complex) Opposing FON
(complex) Anvil Lord

Traits:
Character; Mercenary, Clean Cut, Technical (Karsan League Trait)
Die; Mark of Privilege, Bright Mark, Warrior’s Code, Anvil Trained, Seen it all, Code-breaker
Call-On; (none)

Skills
Psychology 5, Command 5, Tactics 5, Assault Weapons 4, Oratory 4, Close Combat 3, Etiquette 3, Intimidation 3, Strategy 3, Signals 3, Sensors 3, Instruction 3, Infiltration 2, Terrain wise 5, Circle of 10k wise 3, War wise 3, Anvil wise 3, Psychologist wise 3

Wound Tolerance:
Superficial H3/A6, Injury H5/A8, Maimed H7/A10, Mortal H9/A12

Sergeant Brakus
Human, Age 23

Lifepaths: Born Citizen -> Lead to Anvil -> Soldier -> Scout -> Sergeant

Beliefs and Instincts
Victor saved my life; I will save his.
The Militia is full of potential; I will make it strong.
Victor has many enemies; nevertheless I will remain loyal to him

If surprised, draw and shoot
In combat keep close to Victor
Always reconnoiter the battlefield

Stats:
Will 4, Perception 4, Agility 4, Speed 4, Power 5, Forte 5
Steel 7, Hesitation 5

Artha: Fate 0, Persona 0, Deeds 0

Resources: 2

Technology:
Assault Laser, Ballistic Suit (AT2)



Circles: 2

Affiliations:
Citizens of the Commune 1D
Anvil Militia 1D
Reputations:
Relationships:
(free) Victor Thorne

Traits:
Character; FUGAZI, Cold, oddly Likeable
Die; Citizen of The Commune, Seen it All
Call-On; (none)

Skills:
Recon 4, Tactics 3, Command 3, Observation 3, Infiltration 3, Survival 2, Close combat 2, Assault Weapons 2, Soldiering 2, Instruction 2

Wound Tolerance
Superficial H3/A5, Injury H5/A7, Maimed H9/A11, Mortal H11/A13

[chris_worm]

Victor is the commander of the "Jack Militia", so named because they are armed with Jack Lasers. Although the total force is larger, Victor currently has 20 men with him that he had taken into the mountains to conduct guerrilla training exercises with them. In addition to the jack lasers they have two MIPL launchers, and are wearing balistic helmets (AT1).

Victor's other tech is burned below - also for comment
Portable Battlefield Multi-Scan (Signals & Sensor tools) (ob6)
A small satchel sized suite of sophisticated communications and analysis arrays, that enables a commander to obtain an overview of the battlefield, while maintaining communication with his forces and other allied assets.
{Combined tools (6)}

Morale Amplifier (+2D Steel) (ob6)
The Morale Amplifier amplifies the positive thoughts of a psychologist and broadcasts these thoughts increasing their morale and any allied troops. The benefits of the amplifier is lost if the psychologist ceases to feel positive thoughts (i.e. if knocked unconscious or any failed steel test), and it can take sometime (i.e. the remainder of the scene) for the device to resume broadcasting the positive emotions.
{Steel Advantage (3), Enhancement - All 1 side (6), More Powerful (1), trait limitation (-3), cat limitation (-1)}

[Thor]

Awesome.

Next time I run a BE campaign, I'm pretty sure we're gonna do it in the Invasion phase so that we can have a badass firefight every session.

Since working on the game, I've wanted to do an Invasion phase that takes place entirely in one battle, from start to finish.

[cmoeller]

Baron Ahnk Harron
Good natured, slightly goofy, young Anvil Lord, ruling over the sleepy town of Yawhn

Vaylen
Age: 40 (Host is 27)

Vaylen Explosive Assault Infiltration Cell (EAIC) commander on Shimizu
Lifepaths: Vibhuuten Naiven. Bhrigu. Sakti. Angiris. Soldier. Commander. . . .

BELIEFS
-Our clan's hunger is about to be satisfied. I will lead my brood of fighters to victory.
-The Vitu clan is jealous of our growing power and has snuck forces onto Shimzu to steal it out from under us. I will reveal the traitors.
-When the fighting is over, I will have time to explore the heady effects of alchohol on this host. Until then, I must resist its siren call.

INSTINCTS
-The time is now. Kill or restrain all humans encountered.
-Always screen the main horde with a swarm of outlying patrol groups.
-Keep a lot of warm, Ksatriyen bodies around me as protection.

TRAITS
Vibhuuten Clan
Obedient
Cool-Headed
Galvanizing Presence
Just Following Orders
Usurper (Anvil Lord)

AFFILIATIONS & REPUTATIONS
The Vhak'shi Explosive Assault Infiltration Cell) 3 (Exponent 5 Ksatriyen warriors)
Leader of the Vhak'shi Explosive Assault Infiltration Cell 2
Vibhuuten Clan 3

RELATIONSHIPS:
Grazh'ni, Ksatriyen Ko-Angiris (2iC)

STATS:
Will: 5
Perception: 4
Agility: 3
Speed: 4
Power: 5
Forte: 5

ATTRIBUTES:
Resources: 4
Circles: 2
Steel: 7
Hesitation: 3

TOLERANCES:
Superificial: 3 (7)
Injured: 5 (8)
Maimed: 9 (12)
Mortal: 11 (14)

SKILLS:
Soldiering 2
Sensors 3
Tactics 5
Signals 5
Anvil-wise 5
Assault Weapons 4
Observation 4
Close Combat 5
Command 5
Traitor-wise 2
Terrain-wise 5
Physical Training 3

TECHNOLOGY:
Anvil Armor (AT3)
Assault Laser
Breaker
Tools for Signals (built into Anvil Backpack)

[chris_worm]

Nice Burn. Chris.

I see you saw the same skill I did - Terain wise is a useful FORK to any battle situation. You also get Signals/Sensors and Observation with your main allotment of skills? I had to use some of my General skill points to get mine.

Can't wait to see what Per comes up with.

CJ

[cmoeller]

Sakti gives you sensors and signals. It's one rocking Ksatriyen lifepath. I'll burn up Grazh'ni this evening. Plus build myself some cool Ksatriyen MONSTERS baby.

Oh, and the Vibhuuten clan is just sick with all their free leads to lifepaths forbidden to the lowly Yaadasahm and their ilk. Makes my Makara self burn with resentment.

-Chris

[cmoeller]

Grazh'ni, Ksatriyen Ko-Angiris

Vaylen
Age: 29

Lifepaths: Vibhuuten Naiven. Bhrigu. Sakti. Angiris. . . . . .

BELIEFS
-Someday I will shed this brutish host and live in the everlasting light of the human mind.
-My brothers and I have waited a long time for this day. We were chosen from the millions for this destiny. We will not fail.
-Every sentient being longs to be relieved of the responsibility of Will. It is our sacred duty to take that burden onto our own shoulders.

INSTINCTS
-Eat before a mission
-Reload regularly
-Watch the Bhirgu for signs of panic

TRAITS
Vibhuuten Clan
Obedient
Seen it All
Galvanizing Presence

SPECIES, CASTE, CULTURE
Chameleon Pigmentation (3 Ob Perception Test to make an individual Shot Opportunity)

AFFILIATIONS & REPUTATIONS
The Vhak'shi Explosive Assault Infiltration Cell) 2
Ksatriyen Ko-Angiris of the Vhak'shi Explosive Assault Infiltration Cell 1

RELATIONSHIPS
Anvil Lord Anhk Harron

STATS:
Will: 3
Perception: 4
Agility: 4
Speed: 4
Power: 4
Forte: 5

ATTRIBUTES:
Resources: 2
Circles: 1
Steel: 6
Hesitation: 6

TOLERANCES:
Superificial: 3 (5)
Injured: 5 (7)
Maimed: 8 (10)
Mortal: 10 (12)

SKILLS:

Soldiering 1
Sensors 3
Tactics 4
Signals 2
Command 3
Observation 4
Assault Weapons 4
Conspicuous 1
Human-wise 3
Unit-wise 2

TECHNOLOGY:
Ksatriyen Anvil (AT2)
Rifle
Breaker

[cmoeller]

I gave my Ksatriyen the following host trait:

Chameleon Pigmentation (3 Ob Perception Test to make an individual Shot Opportunity)

What do you think? I couldn't figure out a good way to simulate chameleonicness. I thought of making all Advance & Withdraw tests independent if the opponent fails the test. Any other ideas?

-Chris

[chris_worm]

How about increases ob to opponents Observe firefight action, Or just straight up ob penalties to shot opportunities.

I tend to shy away from anything that would call for addition die rolls. The way it is currently listed it as working flies against the principles of "let it ride" - you got two shot opportunities, now roll again to see if you can make those shot opportunities, now roll to make them. See what I mean.

Making the advance and withdraw actions independent is two powerful in my opinion, as both those actions can directly impact disposition. Maybe giving an advantage die if the opponent doesn't have sensors to those actions.

Again minimize the additional die rolling.

Just my tuppence worth.

Edit---

Not that the trait matters much anyway - since it is the skin pigmentation that is changing. My troopers are going to shoot the headless suits of anvil armor moving through the woodlands. These are not 'predator' like chamelieon fields, it's the creatures skin that is changing, and that does not affect their clothes, armor, or weapons

[cmoeller]

Smartass... they are too predator chameleon fields!!!

The problem with that trait is that it forces stat tests, not just Obs to existing tests. Kinda odd... I'll think about it some more.

-Chris

[pfischer]

Apologies for the delay guys, but I've been playing another game this evening. I've burned Major Engel, but it's 1am and I've got to go to bed :)

Major Imgo Engel
Human, age 31

LPs: Born to Fire, Soldier, Sergeant, Anvil Elite, Lieutenant, Anvil Captain

Beliefs:
My loyalty is important to the welfare of us all. It's everything. I must not fail in the eyes of the lordship.
My destiny is to lead. I will rise in military rank to become commander of Shimizu's military forces.
The church is poison for our minds and souls, and I will covertly oppose it and try to reveal its true nature.

Instincts
Shoot first, ask afterwards, solve problems later
Never trust civilians - they will lie to save their own skin
Save myself first.

TRAITS
Born on the wheel, Fugazi, Oddly likeable, Anvil trained, Clean cut, Seen it all, Booming voice

AFFILIATIONS & REPUTATIONS
Born on the wheel 1
Anvil Squad 1
Squad Leader 1

RELATIONSHIPS:
Vogell 2iC 1

STATS:
Will: 4
Perception: 4
Agility: 6
Speed: 4
Power: 4
Forte: 4

ATTRIBUTES:
Resources: 7
Circles: 1
Steel: 7
Hesitation: 5

TOLERANCES:
Superificial: H3 (6)
Injured: H5 (8)
Maimed: H8 (11)
Mortal: H10 (13)

SKILLS:
Soldiering 2
Tactics 5
Squad Support Weapons 3
Strategy 2
Anvil-wise 3
Forged Lord-wise 2
Assault Weapons 4
Close Combat 3
Command 5
Terrain-wise 3
Propaganda 3
Psychology 5

TECHNOLOGY:
Anvil Armor (AT3)
Assault Gun

[cmoeller]

Nice, Per. I guess we've all been over this terrain before :)

-Chris

[chris_worm]

we've definetly "seen it all" before. :)

[luke]

I recommend you play with limited ammo supplies. It's very fun. It makes those ammo tests very significant.

[pfischer]

Sergeant Unger Vogell
Human, age 20

LPs: Born Freeman, Soldier, Sergeant, Anvil Elite

Beliefs:
The army is my family - I need to grow up and move away from home and meet other people
My uncle lives somewhere in the Empires - when I find him he will have a job for me

Instincts
Follow my commander
Cover for my squaddies
Pretend everything is OK

TRAITS
Working class, Fugazi, Oddly likeable, Anvil trained

AFFILIATIONS & REPUTATIONS
Anvil Squad 1

STATS:
Will: 2
Perception: 4
Agility: 4
Speed: 4
Power: 4
Forte: 4

ATTRIBUTES:
Resources: 1
Circles: 0
Steel: 6
Hesitation: 8

TOLERANCES:
Superificial: H3 (6)
Injured: H5 (8)
Maimed: H7 (10)
Mortal: H10 (13)

SKILLS:
Soldiering 1
Tactics 2
Squad Support Weapons 2
Assault Weapons 4
Close Combat 3
Command 4
Observation 2
Intimidation 1

TECHNOLOGY:
Anvil Armor (AT3)
Assault Gun

[chris_worm]

OK we have commanders - next we need unit descriptions and a map.

My unit consists of the "Jack Militia", who have been conducting excersises in the surrounding hills, Victor currently has 20 of his militia with him - more are back at base camp further into the mountains. They are armed with Jack Lasers, and have two MIPL launchers, however they only have 3 reloads for each MIPL, the rest being dummy warheads intended for target practice.

I'll try and take a stab at a map.

[chris_worm]

OK I don't know how to link pictures, and my ASCII foo did not work so I'll have to try again for a map.

[pfischer]

You can use the wiki, CJ - Chris did it with the last map, I think, so he must know how.

[chris_worm]

OK I got something - I'll send it to Chris for wikifying - cos I don't know how

[cmoeller]

CJ's excellent map is here:

http://www.burningempires.com/wiki/images/e/ea/Map.jpg

Chris

[cmoeller]

And my Ksatriyen killers, the Graiyal are here

http://www.burningempires.com/wiki/index.php?title=Graiyal

[chris_worm]

Those guys are Nasty.

And you included Infiltration - so there goes my claim to have the highest infiltration disposition bonus.

I'm begining to think my militia are heavilly outgunned. :(

How many of these 'monsters' are you bringing as part of your squad?

[cmoeller]

I have a +2Ob to all infiltration tests because of my chitinous armor, so I don't know, I think you probably have the bonus.

Upgun your squad if you like... give them extra support weapons. Or we can fortify the communication tower. I want my guys to be a swarm like in Starship Troopers.

[chris_worm]

Not a problem Chris. :)

Just some of my pre-conceived approaches to this firefight have been shattered upon seeing your force. I think keeping my guys as is will certainly give things a desperate edge to the firefight which will be fun. I'll just need to come up with some other approaches now (like beat your rolls).

I'm set to go.

[pfischer]

OK, I have emerged from a weekend of gaming.

My unit's (small standard anvil elite squad with five characters) objective is to get in and hold the comm post.

[cmoeller]

Welcome back, Per! My objective, clearly, is to take and destroy the communication post.

[chris_worm]

My objective is to: Cause sufficient losses to the Vaylen, that they cease targeting civillians, forcing them to overextend themselves into a conflict in the mountains, and to be declared Heros by the local populace.

[cmoeller]

Nice Chris!

My contact roll is Signals 5, Fork Observation 4 (+1), Help from Grazh'ni's Obs-4 (+1) for a total of 7 dice:

Roll: 7d4≥4: (1, 2, 3, 1, 3, 3, 1:≥4) = 0 successes

-----------------------

The Ksatriyen would not be controlled. After their long sleep, they were after blood, their naiven drunk on the wild urges of their hosts. They surged toward the mountains, hungry for blood

------------------------------

So unless I'm wrong, as this is a vs. test, one of you has to help the other. Yes?

-Chris

BTW - the dice roller is code named "horde"

[chris_worm]

Somewhere in the foothills of the Blackrock mountains, a small makeshift camp of sodiers is resting.

Victor: "Ah there you are sergent. I want you to get the men ready to move out. I've been picking up some distress signals from the civilian population in the next valley over. Details are sketchy, but they claim to be attacked by fire breathing monsters."
sgt Brakus: "Sir, instead may I..."
Victor: "Yes, a reconoiter would be an excellent idea. You forget I can read your thoughts. Grab what you need and head out - I'll take care of the men myself."
Sgt Brakus: "What about..."
Victor: "Don't worry about a pre-set rendezvous - I'll know where you are. One more thing before you this might prove useful."

Victor's Bright mark flares (Skill Transferal Terain Wise).

Victor: "That will be all, good hunting Sergent."

------

This is due to Sgt Brakus' instict to "Always reconoiter the battlefield" - A free linked test to the Contact roll. This is obviously a recon test but what is the objective?

Since Baron Ahnk has an instict "Always screen the main Horde with a swarm of outlying patrols" my feelings are that it is an opposed test.

Rolling Recon 4 (Forking Infiltration, and Terain wise), plus Help from Victor (Signals) = 7 die (3, 6, 1, 3, 1, 5, 5:≥4) = 3


I'm using the name "Jack_Militia" on the die roller used previously, and tho code is CJ1

[chris_worm]

ChrisM - We each make a contact roll - as we are each independent units.

[cmoeller]

Right, I forgot to link terrain wise:

Roll: 1d6≥4: (3:≥4) = 0 heh... never mind


And the Linked test:
Infiltration 2 (the skill of the outer screen troopers, assuming that's legal), Help from my Terrain Wise 5 (+2) and Grazh's Unit-Wise 2 (+1),

Roll: 5d6≥4: (1, 5, 4, 6, 2:≥4) = 3 successes (net 1 success because of the +2 Ob for their Chitinous Armor).

-------------------------

The screen of Graiyal swept through the low brush of the valley, a kilometer and a half ahead of the main pack. Through implanted commo sets, they received a constant stream of information from Commander Harron and their beloved leader Grazh'ni, who urged them on, dressed their lines as they surged too far ahead or fell too far behind. A farmer and his wife were snapped up in the wave of vaylen horror as it passed through their holdfast. Their dog died in a spray of blood and fur, before it could sound a single warning howl.

--------------------------

[cmoeller]

Chris, check page p.510: if two teams are both using vs. actions against an enemy team's action, those two teams do not roll individually.

[chris_worm]

Hmmn - I did remember that section - but thought that only applied to the actual firefight actions (Direct Fire, Advance, etc) if we both picked the same vrs action. I did not think it applied to contact as that is just a normal versus test. But for this contact we'll take it as you interpret it chris.

'Per' Victor has Signals and Sensors (and the tools to use those skills), and can Fork war wise, that plus help from Brakus' Terain wise, and an advantage die, is probably the best we can do for contact - what can you give in help?

[cmoeller]

Since we don't have vehicles, Sensors are useless. And you may be right about the contact roll not being included in that rule. Luke!? Where are you!?

[luke]

Come on, it's common sense. Sensors are for detecting vehicles and iron. No vehicles and iron, no Sensors!

[chris_worm]

Thanks Luke. But that wasn't the question.

In a multi unit firefight does each unit roll for contact (i.e. per and I would roll seperatly) or does each side (i.e. Per & I help each other and roll once)?

[luke]

Each unit. There's only one winner.

[chris_worm]

Thanks Luke that clarifies it. Sorry Per - you're on your own.

OK rolling for contact, Victor has signals 3, forking War wise, with help from Brakus' Terain wise, and an advantage die from Recon. 7D
7d6≥4: (2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 5, 4:≥4) = 2 Successes

[pfischer]

Guys, do you mind if we use the same diceroller code? The CJ1?

Anyway, here's my Contact roll (Great, my commander has none of the primary skills, good job)

ForK Terrain-wise +1, Help Observation 2 (+1) (4, 6:≥4) = 2 successes

[chris_worm]

OK we tie Per - I guess that means that we both get the Contact Advantage.

With detailed reconnisence made by Sergent Brakus, Victor easily locates the main force of the Vaylen horde by their chatter on the comms, however he does not see the Anvil squad decending from the skies in radio silence until he has committed his forces.

Rolling for disposition - Command 5 (with help from Brakus), forking (Tactics and Anvil wise) = 8D

(4, 6, 5, 5, 1, 1, 1, 5:≥4) = 5 Succeses

Initial Dispostion = 5 + 2 (Contact Bonus) + 1 (Psychologist) +1 (superior comms, low index tools) + 1 (superior infiltration) = 10

Unless anyone can counter claim the above

[chris_worm]

Going over the Map the following are the initial positions:-
Comm Post, Hill, Ridgeline, Gulley, Road, and Clearing - all these are P1

I'd like to argue that No-Man's land is wooded, and therefore provides a cover of 1. The road and the clearing provide no cover, and the gulley and the comm post have a cover of 2.

As (joint) winner of Contact I choose to add 1P to both the ridgeline and the comm post.

[pfischer]

Disposition:

Command 5, FoRK Tactics 5 (+2) and Anvil-Wise 3 (+1), Help Command 4 (+1)=9D
(1, 5, 5, 1, 5, 5, 1, 1, 3:≥4) = 4 successes

Dispo: 4 + 2s (Contact) = 6 (Do I have superior Training?)

----------------

Captain Engell and his squad land in total radio silence, and the young commander orders his men to spread out and take cover with a few hand gestures. Sergeant Vogell gestures back to his captain: enemy horde approaching!

Unwary of Victor's squad in the vicinity, Engell considers his approach to the comm station. 10 seconds laters his hands show his men what he's thinking.

------------

[chris_worm]

Hmmn - tough one - you might have to argue that with ChrisM - his forces are "bred for battle". - But on Second thoughts Per, your troops are the most diciplined of the battleforce - Chris has described his force as a horde, which implies lack of discipline. So my Vote is Yes with Chris M getting the bonus for outnumbering (possibly even vastly outnumbering)

[cmoeller]

Okay, that works.

My contact roll is Command 5, fork Tactics 5 (+2), help from Grazh's Tactics 4 (+1)

Roll 8d6≥4: (4, 6, 4, 5, 6, 5, 4, 5:≥4) = 8 successes (wow, feast or famine for the worms).

+2s for Outnumber by a vast margin (at least 2:1 odds... assuming you guys have 10 guys apiece) = 10 disposition for the Vaylen.

Oh, and I suggest 1 Fate, 1 persona for everybody. Cool?

--------------------------------

Monitoring his anvil's Signals HUD, Lord Harron noticed the humans were suddenly communicating on two completely different frequencies. Beside him Grazh'ni hissed at the night sky.

"Anvil Drop Troops, commander!"

Harron switched to passive IR vision (damn this human body's lack of genetic enhancements!) and noticed the tiny slivers of red vanishing behind the hills surrounding the communications tower. He snapped a syllable into his headset and all around him, the dark forms of the Graiyal broke into a swift, loping charge. Harron swung onto the back one of his Headquarters Security troopers, riding it like a bizarre, armored horse as his pack closed with their objective.
-----------------------------------------

[chris_worm]

I think Per said his forces were 5, and I said my forces are 20 - but you've describe your forces as a horde, so I'll grant you vastly outnumber.

I just noticed that you and Per claimed +2D for Forking Tactics into your command roll - According to page 303 Forking only adds 1D whatever the exponent is. Helping gives +2 for exponent 5 or more but that is different. So your horde's disposition should be 1 less, unless I'm missing something.

This is the reason I transfered Terain Wise to my Sergent, since I can use it to help Victor for 2D, yet if I kept it for myself for Forking I'd only gain 1D; especially as 2iC relationships are limited to exponent 4 skills at creation.

Anyway - do you of Per want to add any locations or change position values to the locations on the battlespace.

[cmoeller]

Ha! Yeah, I've been doing that wrong since day one. You're a cagey bastard with that "tell my guy to help me fork better" business. I'll have to hull you.

So my dispo's 9.

The map's been updated w/position info (I added 1P to the gulley).

http://www.burningempires.com/wiki/index.php?title=Image:Map.jpg

Nobody's got range superiority (I don't think), so we'll go to our first set of volleys in the morning. For the Horde!

Chris

[chris_worm]

The Map looks fine - the road should be another P1 position - it sounds odd but that's how firefight works. We'll probably need to agree that anyone advancing or withdrawing from the road will receive a 1D situational advantage.

[chris_worm]

Ok I need to test that I can insert hidden text before I write my actions for the first volley.

So here is the hidden text

And back to normal

[chris_worm]

OK that worked fine - so here are the actions for the Jack Militia in the first exchange:


1: Flank
2: Advance
3: Advance

[pfischer]

Cool - I mess up that FoRK rule as well, every single time. Doh. So I'm staying a 6 Disposition.

Engell unit first volley:

1 Advance
2 Advance
3 Advance

[cmoeller]

Sorry guys, here are my volleys:

Volley One: Suppressive Fire

Volley Two: Advance

Volley Three: Advance

[chris_worm]

Thanks Chris - Now I need to Persuade Per to help my Flanking manouver, since both Advance and Flank are Vrs actions against your Supresive fire?

So Per can I count on your help? I'll help on a subsequent action.

----

Victor looks to the sky and sees the falling flares and chaff surrounding the decending drop troops. "Aha," he thinks, "I was wondering when when his Lordship would respond with his regulars - but that doesn't appear to be enough for a drop platoon - he doesn't think so little of the people here that he only sent a squad?"

He taps a few keys on his anvil radio, and broadcasts on the private commander frequency, along with a verification code on a sub channel.
Victor: "Anvil Drop Troops, this is captain Thorne of Militia Unit 1138. I am responding to local distress signals and have engaged the enemy. Please respond with your intentions. Over."

He taps a key again and ends his broadcast.

He sends a thought to Brakus over his connection, "Sergent, if these drop troops follow standard Anvil tactics, they will make directly for the communication tower. We can use that to our advantage. If we move our forces round here we can flank the enemy, and with a bit of luck the regulars will draw some of the fire away from us as we pin them between our two units."

[pfischer]

Flank OK :)

--------
The anvil squad's communication channel cracks alive and the unit is instantly ordered to fall prone.
"I said radio SILENCE for WORMS sake! Fuck's sake!" Engel's voice is colder than dry ice.
"It's an incoming message, sir."
Radio: "Crrrk! Anvil Drop Troops, this is captain Thorne of Militia Unit 1138. I am responding to local distress signals and have engaged the enemy. Please respond with your intentions. Over. Crrk!"
"This is Major ENGEL of Anvil Elite Platoon one SLASH fifteen. You campers are PISSING all over my RADIO silence, you hear?"
Engel signals to his men.
"Good to have you around, Thorne, might be USEFUL if your men are not useless WORMS like most militia! We'll cover your ASSES!. Over and OUT!"
----------

[chris_worm]

Flank Action - Tactics 5, +1 (Forking Anvil Wise), +2 (Help from Major Engel's Tactics), +2 (Help From Brakus' Terain Wise) =10D

10d6≥4: (4, 3, 5, 4, 1, 4, 3, 6, 4, 3:≥4) = 6 Sucesses

[luke]

How'd you get double +2 help? There should only be one other allied character with a 5 skill, Per's PC. Your 2iCs can only have 4s.

-L

[cmoeller]

He's got a psychological connection w/his 2iC, and is transmitting his Terrain-Wise 5 to him. What a cheating farmer...

My Suppress is Command 5 +1 (terrain wise fork) +1 (Tactics fork), +1 (Grazh's command 3)=8D

8d6≥4: (6, 6, 1, 6, 1, 3, 4, 4:≥4) = 5 successes

3d6≥4: (3, 1, 2:≥4) = 0 Busting open those 6's w/a Fate

--------------------
The screen of Graiyal streamed into the valley, leaping over bushes and around trees. Ahead of them, a crowd of humans, hunched over, dodged toward the flank. Behind them, distant armored figures could be seen advancing methodically up the valley. The beasts skidded to a halt, their mouths snapping open, the bones in their skulls unhinging, jaws agape, the quivering interiors burning a hellish green. From a dozen points, the edge of the forest burst into flame, the trees standing out in black relief as the night was filled with the hissing of superheated plasma followed by fountains of earth and stone and splintered wood...
------------------------------------

[luke]

He's got a psychological connection w/his 2iC, and is transmitting his Terrain-Wise 5 to him. What a cheating farmer...

Whoa. That's brilliant. Serious cheating! You need to put a mortar round down that psychologist's throat!

[Yagathai]

You can do that? =o Wow. That is just... I can't...

I doff my hat to the white-hot incandescent glow of the cheating.

[Thor]

You can do that? =o Wow. That is just... I can't...

I doff my hat to the white-hot incandescent glow of the cheating.

That's why Psychologists rule the field in Sheva's War. ;)

[chris_worm]

It's only cheating if you break the rules. And on top of that Sergent Brakus has earned a test towards opening a Terain wise skill of his own. :)

Although I must admit I did setup Victor with the explicit intent of trying this idea out.

Seriously though I doubt this would be useful in a real campaign as the skill exponent is limited by the psycologists Will pool. If victor had given one more connection, or had a Will of 5, it would limit the granted skill to 4. Also while I'm transmitting the skill I can't use it myself (which means I have to be crative in how I fork in my other wises - not a bad thing realy), and I do not gain experience in the skill.

[chris_worm]

Victor leads his forces arround the back of the ridgeline, and comes up behind the Graiyal, trapping the monsters into the valley, and forcing them to fight on two fronts simultaniously.

----
6 successes vrs 5 succeses => MOS =1 Applied directly against the Vaylen Disposition lowering it to 8

[chris_worm]

Speaking of cheating :)

Suppress is an action with the unit skill of Tactics not Command, and since command is not on the list of unit actions command cannot be used as a fork.

But in the interest of moving forward, lets ignore this miss-step and move to the next action.

[pfischer]

OK, Engel's unit is advancing towards the comm station. What do you have in mind, CJ?

[cmoeller]

Cheating, in Burning Wheel/Empires terms, means bending the rules to win in a particularly clever and merciless manner. I can't take the credit for cheating, just being a clod. Let's say two successes off my disposition as punishment. I'm at 7.

I'm doing an Advance on the Comm station as well, guys.

-Chris

[chris_worm]

We all did Advance. Advance & Advance are independent actions, so we roll independently.

I'm going to advance up the ridgeline to be able to provide fire support.

----
Victor: "Sergent, we are exposed in this valley. In my experience of war higher ground is always preferable - which is better the hill or the ridge?"
Brakus: "Topograpically Speaking sir, both have the same altitude, but the ridgeline will provide more flexibility for future tactics."
Victor: "Excellent, lets move up there."
----
Advance - Command 5 + 1 fork (war wise) + 2 Help (Brakus' Terain wise) = 8D

8d6≥4: (4, 4, 2, 5, 1, 6, 2, 2:≥4) = 4 Sucesses

3 succeses needed (p2+1)
last success wasted

[cmoeller]

According to the Firefight sheet in my hand, Advance is vs. Advance... am I crazy? Am I seeing things?

-Chris

[chris_worm]

You're not seeing things. I'm looking at the book, and it lists advance/advance as an independent test. But now I look at the worksheet it does list advance/advance as a vrs test. I can't find any errata that suggests the book is wrong, either on the wiki or the firefight forum - but I could very well be mistaken.

I can see how it could be argued either way. But I'm open to either interpretation - if it is a vrs test I'll help Per as per my earlier arangement.

Any other thoughts? Luke? Thor?

[chris_worm]

The Advance/Advance question still needs to be resolved.

But I just re-read page 510 "Supporting Actions", and two units performing the same independent actions help each other. so either way the question is resolved one of us needs to help the other, and by my earlier agreement, my forces will help Per's forces.

So ignore my roll and I'm still stuck in no-mans land.

[luke]

Page 494 says Advance against Advance is Independent. Go with the book.

[chris_worm]

Thanks Luke - just wanted to make sure I'd not missed some Eratta.

[pfischer]

Then I have another question regarding when more than two units do the same independent action. The book says on p 511:
"If two teams are using the same independent action against the same
team, one team must help the other with its action. The players can
choose which action will have an effect and which will act as help.
Otherwise, independent actions are resolved individually, team to team,
action to action."

I'm reading this as if we are helping each other, CJ, if we are performing the same independent action - am I misunderstanding this?

[cmoeller]

Nope, that's correct.

And whoop! Break out the bubbly boys, we've discovered an official piece off errata! We're going to live forever in song.

-Chris

[pfischer]

So we'll have to decide which one of our Advances we're going for (the ridge or the comm station).

CJ, depends on your last volley I guess - do you want to take that hill now and I'll help you?

[cmoeller]

That's right, private Engel, you're just here to provide helping dice. That's honorable. That's glorious. There's no shame in it. That doesn't make you Victor's little puppet. He's the local Militia commander after all, you should support him, not the other way around.

-Chrisofthevaylenpropagandaministry

[chris_worm]

No it's OK Per - I saw that same rule after I rolled.

But since I'd already said I'd help your next action ignore my roll - My Comand of my troops, holding the rear of the Vaylen forces in check will help your forces move and take control of the Comms Post.

[pfischer]

Second volley

Advance vs Comm Post Ob3
Command 5, Fork Terrain-wise +1 Help Command +1 Command (Victor) +1= 8 dice

(4, 2, 4, 5, 5, 1, 5, 2:≥4) = 5 successes

Engel's unit take the Comm post position.
2 extra successes to degrade Vaylen disposition by 1.

[cmoeller]

My advance is Command 5, Fork Terrain-wise (+1), Help from Grazh's Command(+1), Bonus for the Blinding Speed trait (+1) = 8D

8d6≥4: (3, 4, 2, 5, 3, 1, 4, 2:≥4) = 3 successes

With two net successes, Engel's boys are in control of the tower.

--------------------------

The main host was pouring out of the forest now, snapping and snarling, pouring in a writhing, clattering sea toward the communication tower behind its flimsy steel barrier fence. They surged towards the gate, reaching it just as the last of the human Anvil troopers slammed it shut in their faces. The comm post was quickly surrounded.

Baron Harron dismounted from his trooper at the edge of the forest, his VISE enhanced visor scanning the ridge for the militia-men. Seeing nothing, he began to examine the tower's defenses more closely.

---------------------

-Chris

[chris_worm]

Chris,

Luke said:"Page 494 says Advance against Advance is Independent. Go with the book. " Therefore you and Per are testing independently of each other

Since the position has a value of 2 the ob is 3 - therefore your horde also occupies the position.

Per has 2 successes surpluss successes which in accordance with the Advance action he translates into a disposition loss for you (which I suspect you will take against the disposition you gained from occupying the position). Hmmn maybee I'm reading your post wrong then as it could be interpreted as your horde are at the position but since you incurred a disposition loss are not as fully in control of the position as Major Engel's forces are.

By my calculation, the current dispositions are:
Per (Major Engel) 6+2
Cmoeller (Baron Ahnk) 7+1 (Position 2 - Disposition loss 1=net +1)
CJ (Captain Thorne) 10

[pfischer]

Third volley - Engel will help Victor if possible.

----------
Inside the comm post, doors are being barricade and Engel's handful take positions at windows and on the roof of the building.
The comm staff manning the post are being hurried - politely but firmly by sergeant Vogel - into a large storeroom in the centre of the building. Engel is keeping watch at a window.
"Flueg! Give us a facking EVAL of the situation, for worms' sake!"
"Yes, Major. There must be 40-50 of those suckers - they're disorganised. And ugly. The militias are moving towards the ridge line, sir, under fire."
"Huh. Not bad for beGINNERS, I s'pose. VOGEL! When you're done babysitting, get me Thorne on the line. I wanna CHAT!"
---------
EDIT: Crossposted with CJ

[chris_worm]

OK Thanks Per - Looking at Volley 3 - We each do Advance Again.

I'll take the help from Per, and advance to the ridgeline.
My Advance is independent to CMoeller's - although he must hesitate if he wants to stay at the same position.

----
Victor notices the comand frequency hail is blinking, and thinks to himself "Ah, now he wants to talk to me.", he taps a key on his wrist, and activates the channel.
Victor: "Sir, I'm moving to the ridgeline and will provide covering fire"
----
Advance (ob3)
Command 5 + 2 (Help Major Engel Command) +2 (Help Brakus Terain Wise) +1 (Fork War Wise) = 10D

10d6≥4: (2, 5, 3, 1, 1, 6, 6, 5, 2, 6:≥4) = 5 Successes

Jak's Militia succesfully take the ridgeline.
2 extra successes degrade the Vaylen Disposition by 1

[pfischer]

Recap: So Chris's Vaylen horde is inside the Comm Post position before his last advance of this exchange?

[chris_worm]

Yes that was my interpretation - it is an independent task and you both acheived your ob - therefore you both receive your objective. So you both get the disposition bonus and the cover bonus.

Although how it was described with your men inside and his monsters clammering on the outside is awsome, and in my mind explains why he received a disposition hit from your extra successes.

You are both in the same location so close combat maddness can begin.

That is unless for his third volley Advance action CMoeller moves his forces to a different location.

Chris What is your interpretation?

[luke]

CW, you've got it; you're spot on.

[cmoeller]

Yes, I'm hesitating (though a more accurate term might be slamming-the-combined-weight-of-a-hundred-slavering-monsters-into-the-door).

While I've got you here, Luke, this is the perfect moment to ask you what sort of helping dice my ten thousand screaming hellions might reasonably provide me when (and I do mean WHEN) i get into close combat with Per's quivering troopers. Beyond the obvious dice I get from my 2iC, of course.

thx,

Chris

[chris_worm]

And that brings us to the end of the first exchange.

Baron Harron's Horde, and Major Engel's Anvil are both at the Comms Post - Captain Thorne's Militia are on the ridgeline opposite.

Current Dispositions are:
Major Engel 6+2
Baron Harron 7+0
Captain Thorne 10+2

Baron Harron's Horde is due an ammo check ob3 (1+supresive fire 2) by page 526 this is an officer's test; Quote "In small teams of individuals, ammo checks are made by each character. Otherwise the officer makes the test." Once this test is made of failed we need to write down our volley's for the next exchange.

As to Cmoeller's question about help for Close combat, wouldn't that be +9D help dice given to each individual action in close combat - this based on a hoarde size of 50 attacking 5 Anvil troopers = 5 individual horde members making attacks (1 on each anvil trooper), and 9 helping each attacker (this instead of making 50 individual attacks for close combat individual actions). Ouch Major Engel better figure out a way to keep you at bay!

[luke]

i'd restrict the amount of possible attackers based on the location of the units. If the Graiyal surround their opponents in an open field, they can all attack. If they're constrained by space or features, then trim down the numbers. If the unit is dug in, not all of the creatures are going to be able to attack. Think about what makes sense and agree on the number.

This is where the game gets more RPG than wargame.

[cmoeller]

After a busy weekend occupied with his daughter's sixteenth birthday celebration, Lord Harron raised his arm and gave his orders...

Volley One: Close Combat

Volley Two: Close Combat

Volley Three: Take Cover

[pfischer]

You need to do an ammo check, Chris.

[cmoeller]

Screw it, I'll pass on the ammo check (my beasties are building up another bellyful of plasma while they claw at the walls). No fire for me first volley.

-Chris

[chris_worm]

Exchange two below:

Volley 1:Supresive Fire

Volley 2:Supresive Fire

Volley 3:Supresive Fire

[pfischer]

Engel's 2nd exchange

1 Close Combat
2 Close Combat
3 Rally and Regroup

[chris_worm]

OK Per & I both choose vrs actions against Cmoeller's Close Combat action, so we must decide who is helping each other.

We can continue our existing arangement Per (alternating support), in which case I will help your Close Combat with my Supresive fire, guaranteeing close combat individual actions; Or Per you could help my Supresive fire with your close combat, in which case I may hold off the horde from entering the compound. It is up to you Per?

[pfischer]

Huh, no idea what's worst, really. Let's go for Sup Fire first and hope it pins their asses to the ground. I'll help with Engel's Tactics 5.

-----------
"Major, we are being stormed! They're all over us!"
Engel barks at the comm link.
"Thorne, you HEAR me? Gimme some COVER here!"
----------

[chris_worm]

OK Per lets see what happens...

Thorne: "OK men, lay down coving fire, shoot anything that moves - Lasers Only!"
Brakus: "The Major certainly will have his hands full if any break through his perimiter."
Thorne: "I just hope that our power packs hold up under all the abuse we're going to give them. In war power packs have a tendency to fail just when you need them most - that's why I'm holding back on the MIPL for the moment."

---

OK tactics 5 + Help 2 (Major Engel Tactics) + Help 1 (Brakus Tactics) + Fork 1 (War wise) = 9D

9d6≥4: (3, 5, 5, 4, 4, 4, 6, 6, 5:≥4) = 8 Successes

Wow those dice were hot.

[cmoeller]

Nice shooting, farm boys! My worms are on the attack:

Tactics 5, Fork Command (+1) and Anvil-Wise (+1), Help from Grazh'ni's Tactics (+1), 8D

8d6≥4: (4, 2, 3, 2, 2, 6, 2, 3:≥4) = 2 successes

Wow those dice were cold.

-------------------------------
As the Graiyal clawed at the doors and clambered up over the backs of their brethren in an attempt to go over the top of the wall, fire from the nearby ridge tore into them, spraying the comm tower's outworks with bits of alien meat and jet-black internal bodily fluids. Hissing and screeching, the Ksatriyen beasts were thrown into temporary panic.
--------------------------------

[chris_worm]

Wow - 6 net sucesses
More Metal Down Range (2) - disposition loss
Keep your head down (1) - Steel Test for Baron Harron
Keep your head down (1) - Steel Test for Grazh'ni
Rampant destruction and chaos (2) - +1 Ob to next action

----

The militia's fire lights up the sky brighter than any Lord's inaugrial day firework show. Between flashes the horde can be seen scrambling for cover, their intent to rip Major Engels Anvil forces limb from limb temporarily forgotten.

Thorne: "Thats it boys, lets see if they can take the heat."

[cmoeller]

Harron's Steel test (vs Hesitation 3): 7d6≥4: (4, 5, 2, 5, 2, 5, 6:≥4) = 5
Grazh'ni's Steel Test (vs Hesitation 6): 6d6≥4: (5, 2, 6, 1, 2, 5:≥4) = 3

My disposition is 5+0 (I assume we're saying it's +0 because I'm, in storytelling terms, not "inside" the location, even though, mechanically, I am?)

I have +1Ob to my upcoming Close Combat volley. Who's rolling on your side and who's helping?

-------------------------
Harron look around, assessing the situation. The laser fire from the ridge top, combined with fire from the roof and upper windows of the communication tower was driving his minion's mad. They had nowhere to hide unless they withdrew into the woods, and that wasn't going to happen. They still had the advantage in numbers.

Harron called for Grazh'ni to urge the beasts to rally, to press forward, to ignore the harassing fire, break down the doors and feed on the enemy. To his surprise there was nothing on his commander's channel but static. Looking around, he snarled with frustration. Grazh'ni was nowhere to be seen.

------------------------------------

[pfischer]

I'd say you're "in" the Position and thus gets the bonus (that you're not actually inside the walls is colour, me thinks)

[luke]

Chris, you made a successful Advance, therefore you're in the position and gain benefit of the cover and postional value until you flank, advance or withdraw.

Also, it's good to see you made a nice tough commander with a high Steel and low hesitation. I hope this next volley goes better for you!

[pfischer]

CJ, this time you are helping my Close Combat, OK?

[chris_worm]

Per - OK I'll help - Tactics 5 = +2D
"There will be blood!" - Hmn Sounds like a movie title :)

Chris/Luke
I agree the Horde is in the position, and theerfore receives the cover advantage, the +0 is an indication that the disposition bonus has been whittled away (Extra successes from Per & My Advances last Exchange removed the +2 that he would have received), and so now disposition losses are occuring directly against the horde's disposition.

-----
Thorne: "I don't beleive it..."
Brakus: "What?"
Thorne: "That major's either brave, stupid, or insane. He's engaging that horde in close combat. I'll want a look inside his head after this - if he survivies."
Thorne: "Men, focus fire on the horde - lets keep them pinned down to give the Major a fighting chance."

[chris_worm]

CMoeller - The horde is at a disposition of 6+0. I only depleted your disposition by one (I.e. I spent two extra succeses from my suppresive fire action).

[pfischer]

Engel Close Combat
Tactics 5, Fork Command +1, ForK Anvil-Wise +1 , Help Vogel Tactics +1, Thorne Tactics +2 = 10D

(5, 5, 4, 4, 5, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6:≥4) = 10 successes!!

----------
"Come ON, you're the empires' finest fighting FORCE! FIGHT, goddammit, FIGHT!"
----------

[Esteban]

oh snap! What are the chances of that? :O

[Yagathai]

1023 to 1.

[Z-Dog]

Holy cow! Sweeet!

[Esteban]

1023 to 1.

:-|

I meant like the 10D = 10s and 9D = 8s in the same maneuver! But I guess there's always the nice side that all those 5's weren't 6's. Can you imagine if that had been:

(6, 6, 4, 4, 6, 4, 6, 6, 5, 5:≥4) = 10 successes!!

Then you tap in some Fate, and BOOM! :twisted:

[Yagathai]

19 in 524 288, or a 0.0036% chance, assuming those were the only two sets of dice rolled.

[cmoeller]

So 4+2 is my actual disposition. If I leave the commo tower I'm fucked. Fine.

OH MY GOD! What a roll Per! It's like you're a unit of supermen.

I roll Tactics 5, Fork Command (+1) and Anvil-Wise (+1), gain no help from the cowering Grazh'ni, and throw in my persona, since I think we're coming down to the wire here (+1 and out of Artha) = 8D

8d6≥4: (1, 1, 6, 3, 5, 6, 6, 2:≥4) = 4 successes (wish I still had that fate!)

So you have a net 6 successes. We each lose 3 from our dispositions and smash together in a flailing tangle of armor and chitin. (My dispo is at 1+2!!!).

---------------------------

The doors flew open in the face of the startled, disorganized monsters and a tight wedge of Anvil troopers filled the gap, weapons blazing, grenades ripping great gaps in the Vaylen ranks. The beasts fell back, legs scrabbling in the muddy ground, but in moments the gaps were filled again, the maddened Ksatriyen clambering over their dead and dying brethren to get at their screaming, hard-charging foe.
--------------------------

[cmoeller]

Okay, here's the deal. I honestly don't know how to conduct this close combat. Per and I each have a character. Per has a 2iC. In the Mook department, I'll use my GM's prerogative (as Luke described above) to make it 2:1 odds because of the gate protecting Per from being completely surrounded.

So that's one roll for me and two for Per for the characters. How do the mooks fit into it? Do I have one roll with multiple help? Do I roll multiple attacks with less help?

Chris

[chris_worm]

Ok just clearing some things up Chris.

Firstly your disposition is 3+0 (positional disposition is lost first - sort of like a buffer).

Per'sdisposition is now 5+0 (6+2 hit with a -3).

From Page 477
"Occupying a position requires a successful Advance maneuver as
described in the Maneuvers section. If a position is successfully
occupied, its P value is temporarily added to the team’s disposition.
The temporary position value is lost if the team uses an Advance, Flank
or Withdraw maneuver. It is also lost if the unit’s disposition is reduced
by the position’s value."

Secondly it is your troops that get the individual actions, but based on the text in "shot oportunity scale" pg 508 - I'd divide your force into 5, and assign individual actions accordingly (your commander may or may not be grouped with one of these - your decision) - each individual of Per's you eliminate knocks 3pts off his disposition.
From Page 508 -
"The Direct Fire shot opportunity scale counts for units of about five
bodies/guns/ships. For teams of about ten, each shot opportunity
counts for two shots. For teams of 15-20, shot opportunities count as
three or four shots. Scale upwards so that each shot opportunity won
from Direct or Suppressive Fire counts as about twenty percent of the
unit firing.
When shooting at units of approximately the same size, this
scale is just for color. A shot opportunity drops more soldiers,
but it still only knocks one point off disposition. If your team has the
Outnumbers bonus over your opponent, successful shot opportunities
knock off two points of disposition each. If your team has the
Outnumbers by a Vast Margin bonus, shot opportunities knock three
points off each."
I know that these are not shot opportunities, but if we did each of your horde individually we'd be here all day and night.

[luke]

Chris,

How many dudes does Per have in there? 5? If he's got a manageable number, roll your CC plus help actions against each soldier. It's fun! If you want, and it's appropriate, toss in your officer and 2iC. For the characters, each of you should pick a target for them -- either an enemy officer or an enemy trooper if you're a coward. Then pick actions for your units, then resolve. It's a bit detailed at this level (and I confess it's not terribly well detailed in the book), but i know it works!

So, to review:
If the unit has, let's say, 6 or fewer targets, roll for each one.
Divide the larger unit's members (within reason) among the targets in the smaller unit.
Allow officers and characters to pick their targets. Announce the targets.
Choose actions.
Reveal.
Resolve.
Calculate dispo losses.

You both could go out on this action!

Weapons Fire and Hand to Hand count as Shot Opportunities for those purposes.

[chris_worm]

Thanks Luke. That spells it out much clearer.

[cmoeller]

I missed the bit about the ablative cover, Chris... that's nice. I assume it means that, once the cover's been degraded to zero, there's no reason for you to stay there. You can bug out with no penalty.

So then I have a swarm against Per's 5 extraordinary gentlemen (I'm assuming it's 5 + 2 commanders).

My targets: Baron Harron draws a bead on Imgo as he stands in the doorway of the tower, assault gun blazing, while the doughty Sgt. Vogel and each of your extraordinary gentlemen are leapt upon by two of my berserk Graiyal.

My Actions:
Harron vs. Imgo: weapons fire
Graiyal vs. Vogel: close combat
Graiyal vs. Trooper One: close combat
Graiyal vs. Trooper Two: close combat
Graiyal vs. Trooper Three: close combat
Graiyal vs. Trooper Four: close combat
Graiyal vs. Trooper Five: close combat

Give me your assignments and actions and we'll fight!

-Chris

[pfischer]

Imgo vs Harron: weapons fire
Vogel vs Harron: Grenades
Trooper One vs Graiyal: weapons fire (Squad Support Wpn)
Trooper Two vs Graiyal: weapons fire
Trooper Three vs Graiyal. weapons fire
Trooper Four vs Graiyal : weapons fire
Trooper Five vs Graiyal: Grenades

I assume I have one squad support weapon as per standard anvil unit, preferably a PAc.

AAAAAAAHHH!

[chris_worm]

It's not cover it's disposition bonus. You still have the cover bonus of +2.

Whether the cover bonus applies to close combat is a mutual decision between you and per based on color descriptions of the close combat scene. The way you've described it I'd say no - but I have no voice in this situation, my men are safely on the otherside of the valley.:)

[cmoeller]

CJ: Right, the P, not the C.
Per: I think you can't both hit Harron, you've got to have one help the other. Hell yes, you boys can have a PaC. This is why i think unit-burning of some sort is as important (when you get to a FF) as character burning. Dunno how to implement it, except to just say "My guys have this, isn't that kick ass?" and the GM saying "No, you can't have a squad of 2,000 angry farmers armed with Iron and Fusors..."

Here are my rolls!
Vs. Imgo (Assault Weapons 4, Fork Anvil-Wise (+1), Help from a Graiyal's Vomit-4 (+1) = 6D)
Vs. Vogel and Troopers 1-5 (Graiyal's Close Combat 5, help from his wingman (+2) = 7D)

Rolls:
Imgo - 6d6≥4: (5, 1, 1, 4, 6, 3:≥4) = 3
Vogel - 7d6≥4: (4, 2, 1, 3, 1, 6, 3:≥4) = 2
#1 (PaC) - 7d6≥4: (6, 4, 4, 3, 2, 3, 4:≥4) = 4 (+2 to DoF)
#2 - 7d6≥4: (4, 1, 1, 3, 1, 2, 1:≥4) = 1 (miss)
#3 - 7d6≥4: (3, 4, 3, 3, 2, 5, 1:≥4) = 2
#4 - 7d6≥4: (5, 6, 2, 3, 6, 3, 5:≥4) = 4 (+2 to DoF)
#5 - 7d6≥4: (2, 4, 1, 1, 3, 3, 5:≥4) = 2

Imgo, Vogel and #5 are versus tests. I think we're both going to self destruct here, leaving CJ last man standing. Let's see.

[chris_worm]

Trooper 5 was a grenades action so therefore is also a vrs.

[cmoeller]

Damage (for the independent tests):

#1 - 1d6: 6 = 6 Superb (H7 - they have power 5)
#3 - 1d6: 5 = 5 Mark (H5)
#4 - 1d6: 6 = 6 Superb (H7)
#5 - 1d6: 5 = 5 Mark (H5) (whoops, crossposted with CJ... you're right of course, a versus test, we'll hold off on this result for now)

Wow, these guys are feisty once they get inside. In retrospect, I should have given them "rapier-like elbows" or something similar for close combat...

-Chris

[chris_worm]

A typical Anvil trooper would have MW10, and AT3 - that would imply
Sup H3/A6, Inj H5/A8, Maj H8/A11, MW H10/A13

That means trooper #3 receives some superficial brusing as the Vaylen pound on the outside of their armor, and troopers #1 and #4 receive a superficial wound each. Even if #5 gets no successes he is meerly bruised inside his armor. By Page 508, since no-one is injured, there is no disposition loss to Per's forces.

Perhaps you should have armed your guys with can openers:)

[luke]

Yah, Chris is right! Oh for a fusor!

It really all comes down to that versus test with the commander!

[cmoeller]

Yeah, should have used their vomit attacks. My visual of the swarming aliens swept me up... I imagined them shredding things with their jaws and claws, but they're really just puny human-equivalents. Back to the breeding vats...

-Chris

[luke]

did you add your +2 bonuses to the die of fate?

[cmoeller]

Yes, but you can't get higher than a six...

[pfischer]

Apologies for the delay, but I've been away work-wise :)

(I'm using Vogel's skills as a template for the other guys, OK?)

Imgo vs Harron: Assault Wpn 4, ForK Anvil-Wise +1, Help Vogel Assault Wpn +1=6D

#1 (PaC): Close Combat 3, ForK Squad Support Wpn +1=4D
#2: Assault Weapons 4, ForK Close Combat +1=5D
#3: Assault Weapons 4, ForK Close Combat +1=5D
#4: Assault Weapons 4, ForK Close Combat +1=5D
#5(grenades): Close Combat 3=3D

Rolls:
Imgo Engel: (3, 5, 3, 3, 5, 3:≥4) = 2 successes (shit!)
#1(PaC): (5, 2, 5, 5:≥4) = 3 (hit)
#2: (5, 2, 3, 4, 5:≥4) = 3 (hit)
#3: (2, 6, 6, 4, 1:≥4) = 3 (hit)
#4: (3, 3, 5, 4, 3:≥4) = 2 (hit)
#5: (2, 6, 5:≥4) = 2 (miss)

DoFs and damage

#1: 1d6: 3 = 3 (Mark V7) + One Blast H4
#2: 1d6: 2 = 2 + 1 = 3 (Mark H8)
#3: 1d6: 3 = 3 + 1 = 4 (Mark H8)
#4: 1d6: 3 = 3 (Mark H8)

[luke]

whoa there, tiger! Close Combat always uses the Close Combat skill. If you're using a big gun in Close Combat, you suffer an obstacle penalty to your skill test as described on pages 495 and 496. I think you might have to test this batch again.

[pfischer]

I had a feeling...especially because it says so in the CC chapter.

Back to the drawing board.

What about Engel vs Harron - is that the same - only the CC skill? I think that's what confused me, because Chris had Harron use Assault Weapons in the vs. test.

[luke]

I missed Chris' faux pas. Should reroll that one, too.

[pfischer]

Ah, OK.

Can you ForK, say, Squad Support Weapon (or any other relevant weapons skill) when rolling for Close Combat?

[luke]

Sure, but that's really up to GM Chris!

[cmoeller]

GM chris says we both fucked up so the results stand (unless you want to go through it just to see the proper way to go about it, GM chris is fine with that too).

[luke]

It is within the power of GM Chris to make such a ruling.

[pfischer]

OK, good call GM Chris :) (And thus we also learnt how to handle Close Combat, isn't it great?)

So, what's the status after this volley - I take it the 1 success over Engel isn't enough to hit him. And how damaged are the Horde after the shootout?

[luke]

Okee doke!
From what I can see, Per's unit has badly shot up Chris' worms.

The PAc disintegrates one right out. That reduces Chris' dispo to 1!

Chris has to make three Steel checks for the Mark hits. If he outright fails any of them, his dispo is reduced by another 1 and he's out!

As for the test between the two commanders, if you're going to skip the CC vs weapons rule on 495 anyway, then the Worm Commander won. Chris should roll a DoF for his assault laser!

-L

[chris_worm]

I'm not sure on Luke's calculation, CMoeller's dispo was 3 before the CC individual actions, so the PAC disintegration, lowers his dispo by 1 to 2. He still needs to make those steel tests but he can fail 1 and still continue the fight, but fail two and its "game over baby".

But then we have the DoF on the Assault laser hit on Major Engel, its all getting very close.

[cmoeller]

Steel tests: three of my fellows suffer injuries (-1D) from Per's assault weapons. Their Steel is 7 (down to 6 for the wound), their Hesitation is 5 (down to 3 for "Bred for Battle" trait). Rolls:

6d6≥4: (2, 2, 4, 6, 1, 5:≥4) = 3 success
6d6≥4: (5, 5, 5, 4, 3, 3:≥4) = 4 success
6d6≥4: (2, 2, 6, 4, 2, 1:≥4) = 2 cowering in fear, -1 disposition (I'm at 1?)

---------------
The first rank of Graiyal went down under the withering fire of the troopers, their chitinous armor no protection against hypervelocity slugs. The troopers were screaming, kicking the bodies of the beasts away from them as more pressed forward. In the strobing glare of the assault weapons, one of the men noticed a blood-spattered shape whipping and squirming in the mud. A naiven, trying to escape from its incapacitated host. He brought his armored heel down on the slithering horror, grinding it into the mud, his finger never letting up on the trigger of his weapon.
---------------------------

My DoF for the Assault Laser hit on Engel:

1d6: 5 = 5

1 net success over Engel's roll in the versus test gives me +1 to the DoF (resulting in a superb hit). The laser hits him square in the helmet. H14 damage result. With anvil armor, Engel's maimed tolerance is H10.

-----------
Engel's helmet burst into molten fragments, hurling him onto his back under the feet of his men. His entire lower jaw was gone, the awful wound cauterized by the passage of the laser. His breath gurgled out of the back of his throat as he choked, trying to cough bits of meat and melted ceramics out of his face, his body shaking. He tried to fight off the shock, the encroaching blackness, but he felt himself slipping away. The last thing he saw, through the red haze of pain, was his troopers calling out to him, trying not to step on him, fighting for their lives.
------------------

-3D reduces Engel's Will to zero, incapacitating him. -1 disposition. (He's at 4?)

[pfischer]

Ouch. Just checking, Engel's tolerance with armor is actually Maimed H11 and Mortal H13, so this is a mortal wound, right?

[luke]

That's a mortal. According to the DF action description, you lose 1 from your dispo plus any dispo bonuses he contributed. In our game, we include his officer's roll successes in that category, but that call is going to once again be up to GM Chris!

-L

[Episkopos]

Busting in to say what an amazing thread this is, gents. I'll have to study it closely later. Thanks for the enlightenment.

Cheers,
Billy

[cmoeller]

I always assumed the commander's "bonus'" included the dispo bonus', so, if that's how Luke does it, that's how we'll do it.

This is an interesting multi-unit situation. Units will be going down individually... Per's unit goes "out", and CJ's unit is still up, we keep fighting, right?

-Chris

[chris_worm]

Yes we do - but we note the disposition

Anvil =0, Horde =1+0, Militia =10+2

Thorne: "Major. MAJOR!"
Thorne: "Brakus, the Major's Vitals just flatlined, and I can sense panic from the rest of his forces. The Anvil are toast. Tell the men to shoot anything that moves over there - obliterate the hillside."
Thorne: "Yes that meens the MIPL's too."

OK my suppresive fire vrs the horde's Take cover

Tactics 5 + 1(Fork War wise) + 2(Help Brakus Terain wise)+ 1 =(Support Weapons) + 1(Persona) = 10D

10d6≥4: (3, 3, 4, 2, 1, 1, 4, 5, 4, 3:≥4) = 4 succeses

Damn no 6's

[cmoeller]

Command 5 + fork Terrain-wise (1) = 6 dice Ghrazh'ni remains down. Can I "circle" up a new 2iC from the horde using my Usurper trait? The Vhak'shi Explosive Assault Infiltration Cell is full of Exponent 5 fellas...

Assuming not,

roll: 6d6≥4: (3, 2, 2, 6, 2, 2:≥4) = 1 success.

-------------------
The Graiyal dragged themselves into and behind the cover of the Comm tower as a hail of fire tore into them from the top of the ridge
----------------------

-Chris

[chris_worm]

I'd say not during the firefight.

Anyway 1v4 = 3 net successes. I'll spend two of them to reduce your disposition by one point, dropping it to zero, and ending the conflict.

----
The brutal punishment of the constant fire from the opposing hillside, breaks the morale of the attacking Horde, forcing them to rout from the hillside. Just in time to as the hum of overheating circuits, and the click of temprature safties on the militia lasers ends the barrage of fire. On the hillside small busshes are ablaze, and many of the buildings are scarred with laser burns.
----

Final disposition is
Militia 10+2, Horde 0, Anvil 0

Original intents were:-

Militia - Cause sufficient losses to the Vaylen, that they cease targeting civillians, forcing them to overextend themselves into a conflict in the mountains, and to be declared Heros by the local populace.

Horde - Take and destroy the communication post.

Anvil -get in and hold the comm post.

So - I get my objective, without any compromises. Your horde is going militia hunting (Gulp), leaving the civilians alone, hailing Victor as a hero, and neither of you get to hold the comms post.

But

Since the Anvil, went out first with the Horde on 1 dispo, the Horde can acheive part of their intent with a Major compromise, I'd suggest that although the post was not destroyed it is out of commision for a few days - perhaps an important cable severed by errant laser fire.

[cmoeller]

My compromise is that there at least ten Naiven in Aeumifesh hidden inside the communication post, ready to tap into its signals when the bodies of their companions have been dragged away and burnt.

Fascinating fight guys! The lopsided nature of the fight is really awfully tough, mostly because each unit has its own disposition. Getting a +2 disposition for outnumbering your foe by a vast margin pales in comparison with a +10 disposition for having a second unit! Not to mention the help (though that wouldn't be as big a difference in a real game in which most of the main characters are helping regardless of their presence on the actual battlefield). I liked the feel of the giant horde vs. the gallant defenders, I think that played out really nicely. I'm afraid to break my players down into 3-4 units in my game though (unless I also break into units, which would totally overwhelm my poor human mind or make my guys 3-4 times better trained and equipped than theirs).

-Chris

[luke]

That's a great compromise.

I didn't realize you took Vastly Outnumber. Next time, be sure to use the Shot Opportunity scale on page 508 to your advantage.

[pauld]

Excellent Firefight Chris, Chris & Per, I was on the edge of my seat all the way through!

This and the two space battles have really increased my understanding of them, along with how nasty Close Combat can be... Plus the narrative of each volleys result was awesome to read, thank you.

What's next for the Arena - 2 units on each side (say, one ground & one air based per side)? 3 opposing units, each with their own objective?

Are there any other scenarios anyone would like to thrash out?

[chris_worm]

Yep.

It must be noted that the rules definetly suggest, that players use equal number of units on each side of the firefight; doing so would help with the lopsided nature of the dispositions. The advantage the GM has in such situations is however they can co-ordinate their Volley's between units alot closer, and either deliberatly arrange for supporting actions for their units.

In a real game with a firefight involving many factions, their may be players who don't have PC's involved, you could have them script, with a bribe or promise on the trait vote/artha awards depending on how well they do; if you think they need such incentive to keep them honest.

[Thor]

The lopsided nature of the fight is really awfully tough, mostly because each unit has its own disposition. Getting a +2 disposition for outnumbering your foe by a vast margin pales in comparison with a +10 disposition for having a second unit! Not to mention the help (though that wouldn't be as big a difference in a real game in which most of the main characters are helping regardless of their presence on the actual battlefield). I liked the feel of the giant horde vs. the gallant defenders, I think that played out really nicely. I'm afraid to break my players down into 3-4 units in my game though (unless I also break into units, which would totally overwhelm my poor human mind or make my guys 3-4 times better trained and equipped than theirs).

Chris, check Breaking Down into Units on page 466. By the book, you should always keep the number of units on each side even.

[Esteban]

First, fascinating fight guys! Lots of stuff to learn from this thread, plus it was loads of fun to read.

An honest question: Does breaking into units also mean breaking the disposition down? Can't you have multiple units tied to a single disposition?

From looking at "Breaking Down into Units" on p. 466 it doesn't go into breaking down the disposition. I suppose you would be able to get multiple position bonuses to the disposition.

I thought this particular exercise involved multiple dispositions because the three factions were independent and they were free to aid whomever they wished. Bringing in another unit like you guys did makes sense if they're fairly independent, and it's like a DoW where the third party is free to side with whichever side it wants to support. Otherwise, if the militia and Anvil weren't opposed it is evident why the 2 vs 1 struggle ended up so lopsided.

Thinking about it some more, one could try and mimic this firefight by having had the Anvil and Militia roll a joint disposition, but have them split it between each unit. I might have even give them a small disposition bonus for having multiple units (mobility or mixed forces bonus).

[chris_worm]

Esteban - yes that was my thought coming into this, that is why I set Victor up as somewhat of a maverik, he could have gone either way - but Per's initial disposition was so low, that I needed to focus on the Horde. I had planned that a Flank or Advance would have been against the Anvil's dispo.

The way things tuned out, yes we should have had a combined disposition, for the Anvil/Militia and then broken into units for the actual actions.

As it turned out though it was cool - CMoeller had to decide, if he wanted to deplete both of our dispos, and go for compromises against us both, or go all out and get major concessions from one side or the other.

I knew that final close combat was going to be brutal, and if I'd been at a physical table with Per I'd have tried persuading Per to support my Suppresive fire instead of the close combat. We might have avoided such extensive dispo losses to Per, and had a much more commanding victory.

If it flowwed over into another Exchange - I was goint to try and keep mobile so as not to suffer the same fate.

[Esteban]

Chris W. - Cool, thanks for the explanation. So with that in mind it makes sense how you guys played it out. It just worked to your advantage that the Anvil took the brunt of it (literally).

[chris_worm]

Yep - if this happened during a real/ongoing game it would be brutal.

We didn't prevent our comms from being tapped, one of the PC's was vaped, and the other is on the run (a hero but on the run).

[pfischer]

Brutal stuff indeed - and very instructive. Thanks, guys!

I'm much more aware of the Firefight mechanics after going through these exercises, and thus more confident to handle one in "real" play, though this was as real as it gets.

Engel doesn't necessarily die, does he? Persona point and then hopefully a medic treatment and he's got a chance.

[Yagathai]

No, I think he's toast. His Mortal was H13, and it was an H14 wound.

[Esteban]

No, I think he's toast. His Mortal was H13, and it was an H14 wound.

p. 531, Right of Mortal "See the sections Mortal Wounds and Recovery for more
on surviving this."

That would imply that you can recover from said injuries. In theory you could survive a nuclear bomb detonating on top of your character if you had persona and someone could get to you in time. :P

[pfischer]

Well, I kinda liked the idea of Engel teaching many years later at the military academy - in a wheelchair and with a plastic jaw, constantly having to dry off saliva from his mouth.

[Esteban]

Well, I kinda liked the idea of Engel teaching many years later at the military academy - in a wheelchair and with a plastic jaw, constantly having to dry off saliva from his mouth.

Tactics 101 by Prof Engel:
Today's lecture: The disadvantages of being swarmed by a Horde while in an enclosed structure and why artillery was essential to Lady Sheeva's success.

;)

[Yagathai]

p. 531, Right of Mortal "See the sections Mortal Wounds and Recovery for more
on surviving this."

That would imply that you can recover from said injuries. In theory you could survive a nuclear bomb detonating on top of your character if you had persona and someone could get to you in time. :P

That's... strange.

[Esteban]

That's... strange.

Not really, if you look at it BE and BW both have a strong concern for narrative, and an integral part of narrative are the characters. Control over when your character dies then becomes an important aspect of the game. Hence, it's easy for a character to be disabled, but not so easy to take him out of the story (dead).

Besides, what would be the point of having the player decide if the character has the will to live on only a small subset of wounds (exactly Mortal, but not right of mortal)?

[Yagathai]

That's how it works in Burning Wheel. Burning Empires is the anomaly.

[Thor]

That's how it works in Burning Wheel. Burning Empires is the anomaly.

Sort of. But not really (http://burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3482&highlight=Mortal+Wound).

[Esteban]

That's how it works in Burning Wheel. Burning Empires is the anomaly.

I'm not sure what you mean, the rules are almost exactly the same. Almost word for word.

p. 194 of BWR 3rd printing. "Any damage that registers on or to the right of the character's Mortal Wound tolerance is considered a fatal blow.... See the sections Mortal Wounds and Recovery for more on surviving this."