Custom Dice

[cmoeller]

So this isn't a question, it's just something cool I want to share. Well I think it's cool. Since I'm a game geek, I assume you will too.

http://www.burningempires.com/wiki/index.php?title=Dice

-Chris

[EarthenForge]

So cool! :D

[Esteban]

Very cool! That's an awesome idea!

Chris, would you mind if I used that image to create a black & white outline and have some custom dice printed here (http://www.chessex.com/Dice/Custom_Dice_Home.htm)?

[cmoeller]

Go for it Esteban. If it works, send me the file (or post it), so I can make some too.

Chris

[pfischer]

I'm trying to find a company here in the UK to engrave dice - I am waiting for a price from these guys:
http://www.dice.co.uk/fs_specialdice.htm

I'd like to see the black&white file as well :)

[John Anderson]

I'm trying to find a company here in the UK to engrave dice - I am waiting for a price from these guys:
http://www.dice.co.uk/fs_specialdice.htm

I'd like to see the black&white file as well :)

Per,
I'd be interested in coming in on an order you make. Are you going to use Chris' excellent die face? PM me if interested and we can sort out details.
John

[Z-Dog]

sweeeeeeeeet!

wonder if there's an american custom dice shop?

[pfischer]

Look at the Chessex link in Esteban's post above, Ken.

Just called the dice makers - my email had landed in their junk inbox! Anyway, they have my request for a quote now. I was thinking of offering other people to get in so we can get a shitload of dice printed :)

Chris's design, yes, but in monochrome if they don't so colour.

[Z-Dog]

Is this order a UK only thing?

I'll pay for shipping across the pond.

[pfischer]

Ken, that's cool by me :) Let's see what kind of prices the company comes back with - but I bet it's cheaper per die to have a lot made.

On that note: how many dice are recommended to have "enough" for a BE/BW gaming group? I have a box of 36 dice that I normally use, more than enough. But how few can you survive with?

[Esteban]

Just called the dice makers - my email had landed in their junk inbox!

That might explain why I haven't heard back from them. Please get back to us if they give you a quote. I'll try calling them tomorrow maybe, for me it's an international call, so I'd rather not have to spend on that :P

[Z-Dog]

I'd like to get 20 to 30.

Suppose I could go higher, but depends on the price.

[Esteban]

I'd like to get 20 to 30.

I was also thinking of getting 30 dice!

[pfischer]

That might explain why I haven't heard back from them. Please get back to us if they give you a quote. I'll try calling them tomorrow maybe, for me it's an international call, so I'd rather not have to spend on that :P

If I haven't heard back from them by tomorrow morning I'll call their office again and see if I can get in touch with their contact person directly.

I was thinking of 30 dice as well if it's cheap.

Per

[Z-Dog]

If 30 is the "buy-in" than count me in!

[cmoeller]

Ken, that's cool by me :) Let's see what kind of prices the company comes back with - but I bet it's cheaper per die to have a lot made.

On that note: how many dice are recommended to have "enough" for a BE/BW gaming group? I have a box of 36 dice that I normally use, more than enough. But how few can you survive with?

I have twelve made up and that's been fine except in the most extreme cases, Per. Oh, and I'll buy in assuming the price is right.

Another idea that occurred to the geek in me: what about custom "psychology pool" dice? With eye symbols for the successes and something else for the worms... I have a pool of just regular old dice for my connections, but hell, you know.

-Chris

[Esteban]

I was thinking of 30 dice as well if it's cheap.

Well, if the information on that page I found is accurate 30 dice are around: $135 for 30, if our order is less than 100 dice, and $108 for 30 dice if our order is 100 or more dice. I'm not sure I consider that cheap, but I have been known to indulge in my hobbies :P

That is of course assuming all 6 sides of the dice are custom made. Alternatively one can choose to just have specific numbers changed.

[pfischer]

OK, here's what they say:

"25+ pieces 3.00 GBP each
51+ pieces - 2.10 GBP each
100+ pieces - 1.68 GBP each
200+ pieces - 1.50 GBP each
500+ pieces - 1.20 GBP each

We have the folloing colours available:
OPAQUE - white, red, green, blue, yellow
PEARL - white, black, blue, green, red, purple

Please note that prices quoted exclude dleivery and VAT and any order will
be by proforma invoice."

We should be able get enough people together for more than 100 dice. VAT is 17.5 % and then there's delivery as well.

[John Anderson]

Per,
That's all cool with me and I'll go with 30 as well if that's the common consensus. I also like the idea of Chris' psychology dice. :)
John

[pfischer]

OK, just to recap. If we get enough orders for 100+ dice, each die will be £1.98 including VAT, but excluding delivery.

That's pretty expensive, but similar to what Chessex charges.

Of course, if we went with only customising three sides (the wheels fx), I suppose the cost will roughly be half.

[cmoeller]

I'm in too, Per.

-Chris

[Esteban]

Per. the prices you gave us, are those for the laser engraved or the multi-coloured moulded? The site in the UK seems to offer quite a variety of options as regards making the dice, so we should get a concensus regarding that.

From the details on the page, they can only print one color per face, so if we do go with the wheel logo, we'll probably want a different color for the 6 to distinguish it.

So for example:
1, 2, 3: white/black worms (depending on final dice color)
4, 5: orange burning wheel
6: red burning wheel

The Chessex prices on the page are their going rate, however, they only do engraving. So they only do black/white depending on your preference. My initial idea with them was to have the 6 be a full burning wheel logo, with 4, 5 being just the wheel (without the fire around it).

Any thoughts on this?

[pfischer]

More info from Dawn at dice.co.uk (she thought I was from Finland due to my weird accent!)

Delivery costs are Royal Mail standard, which for 100 dice is only £3.75. There will also be an actual cost of me sending the dice to you guys :)

The dice are blank before engraving - each side costs £0.28 when we buy 100+, and only half that if we leave three sides blank as the worms fx. I like the prospect of a white die with three blanks and three burning wheels.

You can see the difference between their opaque and pearl dice here:
http://www.dice.co.uk/fs_spotdice.htm

I will set up an order thread - but let's decide here if we are going for wheel/worms dice or wheel/blank dice.

[kensanata]

30 would be cool. I'd go for three sides only.

[Z-Dog]

I'd be up for 3 sides only:

1. To cut down the cost

2. To use the dice with both BE and BWR


...I'll print those stickers out and paste the snakes on the blank dice....think it'd be a better fit (smooth) for a sticker....


------
As an aside:

If someone goes out and orders 3 sets of these dice in black, gray, and white for BWR than I say: Well done, sir...and I am jealous!

[pfischer]

Man, I forgot about one of the sides needing to be a six. Blast. So one of the wheel images need to be different in some way, maybe showing the number 6, whatever.

The price was for the laser engraved ones. The engraving can only be an outline drawing and no colouring. (The minimum order for the moulded is 1000+ dice)

Hm, maybe the easiest and cheapest option that Chris originally suggested is also the best - cheap blank dice with stickers on them?

[Skjalg]

Cant you just invert the 6? So its black on white instead of white on black?

[pfischer]

Skjalg, the dice will have one colour only, so the background on all sides will be the same. I wonder if the die is a darker colour, say:red, and the "six" wheel could be white outline while the two others are a black outline.

[cmoeller]

As for the dice I'm using, they're from GMT Games, from their "Commands & Colors" game. I think when I got them they were $1 apiece (six for $6). They're the only folks I've been able to find that sell dice with indented "windows" so that the stickers don't get beat all to hell (like they do with the blank dice from Chessex). I contacted them recently and got this back from Sherry...

Hi Chris,
I do not believe all the components are listed for sell on the web site as
of yet. But I can take your order over email, or you may call at
1-800-523-6111, Monday thru Friday 6am to 4pm.

Thank you,
Sherry

Chris

[Skjalg]

Skjalg, the dice will have one colour only, so the background on all sides will be the same. I wonder if the die is a darker colour, say:red, and the "six" wheel could be white outline while the two others are a black outline.

Yeah, but it should still be possible to invert them. Just make the print negative.

[pfischer]

Yeah, but it should still be possible to invert them. Just make the print negative.

No, it's an engraving and not a print. Imagine tracing a line with a needle - maybe they can change the colour of the line itself, but won't affect the colour of the die otherwise. If that makes sense?

[kensanata]

I forgot about one of the sides needing to be a six. Blast. So one of the wheel images need to be different in some way, maybe showing the number 6, whatever.

What about using three blank faces, two wheels, and a burning wheel? Here's what I got with some Inkscape:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2365/2216856805_218984e2b2.jpg

(Check the Flickr page (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kensanata/2216856805/).)

I suggest the small flames.

[Z-Dog]

that's pretty sweet

[Esteban]

Black and white Dice pictures (http://picasaweb.google.com/deluvian/BurningEmpiresDice)

These are the images I've come up so far. The flaming wheel can be the one for the 6.

[Z-Dog]

Chris,

Is there a certain size of sticker paper you used? It looks letter sized, is that correct?

------

You guys got me inspired. I'm looking at these Elvish dice for my BWR games. (http://q-workshop.com/products.php?lang=EN&sell_type=DETAL&currency=EUR&category=Elvish%20White-black)

If there was a way to get them without the companies website address on the dice, I'd be sold!

[kensanata]

These are the images I've come up so far. The flaming wheel can be the one for the 6.

I like them. I'd just make sure that the wheel has the same size with and without flames.

[pfischer]

I like them. I'd just make sure that the wheel has the same size with and without flames.

Yeah, they look good, actually - did you just Streamline Chris's art?

I can live with the wheel being slightly smaller with flames, btw.

Per

[kensanata]

What I did for my Burning Wheel suggestion was to steal the wheel from a PDF and the flames from a book cover. Then I filled in the parts I need with black using Gimp, saved the black shapes only, and inserted both the wheel and the flames into Inkscape. There I used the Trace Bitmap menu to generate vector graphics based on the image. The resuling SVG file can be scaled without image deterioration. I'm assuming Esteban used a similar technique for the Burning Empires suggestion.

[Thor]

You guys got me inspired. I'm looking at these Elvish dice for my BWR games. (http://q-workshop.com/products.php?lang=EN&sell_type=DETAL&currency=EUR&category=Elvish%20White-black)

If there was a way to get them without the companies website address on the dice, I'd be sold!

I believe Q-Workshop is the outfit that did the custom Burning Wheel dice Luke was selling with Classic. They were incredibly pretty, though difficult to read in play.

You might price out their custom work. (http://q-workshop.com/help_more.php?topic=customdice&lang=EN&sell_type=DETAL&currency=EUR) Sounds like they might be competitive with the other price you' guys have been quoted.

[pfischer]

Thanks, Thor.

I take it they're US based. Would anyone ask for a quote from them for 100+ dice either with
3 worms, 2 wheels, 1 burning wheel
and
3 blanks, 2 wheels, 1 burning wheel

[cmoeller]

Those are awesome, Esteban!

Chris

[kensanata]

I take it they're US based.

Actually Q-workshop is Polish according to their About Us page (http://q-workshop.com/help.php?topic=aboutus&lang=EN&sell_type=DETAL&currency=EUR) ("The competition includes the most dynamic and competitive companies from Poland."). Good for us Euro Heads...

[pfischer]

Actually Q-workshop is Polish according to their About Us page (http://q-workshop.com/help.php?topic=aboutus&lang=EN&sell_type=DETAL&currency=EUR) ("The competition includes the most dynamic and competitive companies from Poland."). Good for us Euro Heads...

LOL, OK :) I'll send them an email.

Per

[Z-Dog]

The quality of detail on those Q-Workshop dice is incredible. I'd be a lot more willing to pony up more $$$ for the detail.

Reading them wouldn't be that hard if we went for blank sided dice. Just would have to make sure you could distinguish the sixth side.

Suggestion: 3 sides blank....2 sides wheel (no flames)...1 side wheel with flames?

I'm thinking the images that Kensanata posted above on page 2...(so the 2 images on the right...single flame and no flame?)

Just looking at those elvish dice makes me think Q-Workshop could do that.

---------

EDIT: Oops. Looks like Q-Workshop makes you do all six sides. Is that right?

EDIT EDIT: OK, I'm emailing them some questions.

[Esteban]

I'm a software developer so I asked one of our designers if he could do me the favor of turning those images to vector graphics. So I wouldn't really know what my friend did to get those images. I just handed him some samples and a link to Chris' custom dice page on the wiki! :)

The Q-Workshop dice really look amazing. Readability shouldn't be much of an issue if we stick to graphics. From reading their page they really seem to go for really intricate designs (or it seems that's what they're interested in working). The detailed images kensanata provided really seem to fit the bill in that regard.

[Z-Dog]

I think all sides need to be covered.

How about wheels for 3
flaming wheels for 2
and super flaming wheel for 1?

Haven't heard back from them yet.

[Esteban]

Well, in both BWR and BE the 1 is always failure. So perhaps we can do something different for the 1, to denote absolute failure.

Also, 2 and 3 can be successes in BWR depending on shade.

Finally, 4, 5, 6 are successes regardless of the system.

So, 6 is always important, so we should probably keep the burning wheel for that one. Or at least the super duper burning wheel. ;)

I figure 2, 3 could have like a half broken and partially broken wheel respectively. (only useful if you're good enough to make it work?)

Another, and possibly better, idea is to mix the two concepts (BE & BWR). For example:
1: a pile of worms
2: a wheel with lots of worms on it
3: a wheel with one worm on it
4: a wheel
5: a wheel with a little bit of flames
6: a burning wheel.

That way we still get to keep the BE concept, while mixing in the BWR concepts and the worms provide for the graphics denoting failure. Besides, worms are never good, they're like signs of decomposition and stuff! We'll probalby need new art, but I'm guessing something can be worked out. At worse I can break out a wacom and Illustrator and pretend I can actually do something with it! Fear the developer designing!

[pfischer]

Let's see what the Polish company comes back with.

Originally we wanted custom BE dice, but if they are cheap enough I don't see why one of you could get a BWR custom die order together as well.

[kensanata]

Well, in both BWR and BE the 1 is always failure. So perhaps we can do something different for the 1, to denote absolute failure.

Well, there are two conflicting forces at work, here. I would like the dice to be very easy to read without having to closely check whether a wheel is broken or not. But I agree that if we take shades into account we need to distinguish the following: 1, 2 (white), 3 (grey), 4 and 5 (black), and 6 (exploding), with the biggest distinction between 1-3 and 4-6 (the majority of cases). That's why I'd suggest for something light for 2 and 3. Here's my (BW centric) update. For 2 and three I removed the wood texture and detail on the inside.

It would be very simple to substitute the BE wheel instead, obviously. As for "light" and "dark", I think we could have a two wheels: The one for 4-6 is solid black and 2-3 uses just the outline. If at all.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2125/2220742886_0fbebd0304.jpg

Higher resolution available from the Flickr page (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kensanata/2220742886/). SVG source available via Email (see profile page).

[pfischer]

OK, Q-Workshop have come back to me! Their price doesn't matter whether 1 or 6 sides have to be customised. Here are the prices:

100 first dice @ 1.6 = 160 GBP

Shipping:

un-insured: 7 GBP

insured: 15 GBP

[John Anderson]

Hi Per,
Sounds OK to me. Can we finalize what we're actually ordering, whether it's BE and/or BW dice, and what the sides will show? I presume those prices don't include onward delivery from yours to ours?
John

[pfischer]

That's what this thread is for deciding - when we know what we'd like, I'll set up an ordering thread here.

The price is excl. postage from me to you, yes, if I'm the ordering guy. If I'm ordering the payment will be PayPal, which again will add a 3.4% fee per payment to me. I won't charge anything for handling or whatever, I just don't want to build up expenses for doing it.

My suggestion: White BE dice with 3 worms, 2 wheels, and one burning wheel, all in black ink as per Chris's/Esteban's design:
http://picasaweb.google.com/deluvian/BurningEmpiresDice

[Z-Dog]

Here's their reply and my original below.

-------------
Hello,

1. Generally, almost any graphic design is possible and actually we
encourage projects that depart from the usual "1,2,3..." pattern. Your
project certainly makes such departure !

2. As above, complexity of design does not affect pricing and it is
perfectly possible to make a different picture on each side of the
dice.

3. Regarding costs -

10 dice - 12 USD each
30- 8 USD each
100- 5 USD each

Shipping would be at 5-10 USD depending on the amount.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask !

Regards,
Jakub Jaraczewski
Q-workshop
2008/1/27, Shop Q-workshop <shop@q-workshop.com>:
>
---------------------------------------------
> Hello!
>
> I was wondering if it was possible to make some custom dice with the
> attached images of the burning wheels?
>
> Some questions for you:
>
> 1. Can each side be engraved only with an image---no numbers?
>
> 2. Can I have the wheel with no flames on 3 sides, the flame wheel on 2,
> and the double flame wheel on 1?
>
> 3. What would the cost be for 10 dice in US dollars (plus shipping to
> California, USA)? For 30? For 100?

[Z-Dog]

I'm torn.

The illustrations by K. are beau-ti-ful and I'd love to find a way to get some BWR dice like those.

The BE dice are very functional and would work for both games.

I'm guessing my budget limit is about $120 US dollars.

I'll wait to see what the consensus is.

[kensanata]

Q-workshop UK: 100 first dice @ 1.6 = 160 GBP; insured: 15 GBP

Just double-checking the numbers: If I order 30 dice, that would be around USD 105 excluding shipping from the UK to me.


Q-workshop USA: 100 - 5 USD each; Shipping would be at 5-10 USD

And this would be around USD 153 excluding shipping from the USA to me.

*Gulp!*

I'll have to think about these prices.

[Q-workshop]

Hello Burning Wheel community, Jakub from Q-workshop here.

I thought it would be good to point out that prices get sharply lower with higher amount of dice, and actually lately one of more popular ways to order from us are groups of people joining together to make one big order and cut the cost this way. This way you make one big order and split it up afterwards - one person ordering 200 dice comes out cheaper than ten people ordering 20 each. :)

[pfischer]

Hi Jakub,
Welcome here :) That's what we had in mind - one person ordering a big pile of dice to get the price down.

But they still have to be sent on to the individuals who ordered them.

I think it might be an idea to compile two orders, actually - one for US and one for Europe?

Kensa, these are the cheapest custom dice we've found so far (with all six sides customised) AFAIK.

[David Artman]

Anyone contacted this company in Kentucky?
http://www.customdice.com/about_us.php

(Sorry, Jakub, but the shipping is going to kill the US folks, I suspect; Per's right to suggest two orders.)

Note that the company above also sells dice sets for games (at http://www.GameStation.net). Thus, you might be able to do something along the lines of allowing them to use BE/BW art to sell the dice themselves, in exchange for some kind of discount on your initial bulk order (or whatever deal they make to be supplier for the other games there)?

I can see 10-dice sets (even white, gray, black sets with "correct" art, rather than "melded" art and color--though that's a GREAT progression, kensanata) going for about $12 to $15 or so, based on this game (http://www.gamestation.net/product/KG01450/Crown_and_Anchor_Dice_Game.html) ($5 for 5 dice, 3 with all sides custom) and these neat-o novelty dice (http://www.gamestation.net/product/KG11781/Emotidice.html) ($4 for 5 dice, all sides custom).

And you avoid the exchange rate (I didn't notice anyone factoring that into cost, but your bank SURE will, when you convert or send currency).

HTH;
David

[Esteban]

There's also the Chessex dice, they haven't been as forthcoming or quick in their replies as Jakub, but the prices are about: $4.5 per dice for a 30 dice order. Granted they don't seem to specialize in the level of detail Q-Workshop is famous for.

I've sent an email to the custom dice place David suggested to see what sort of quotes they provide.

Overall, it seems that for 30 dice with 6 custom side, you're looking at $140 or more I'd say. Unless we can really hit up a 100+ order, which doesn't seem far fetched. :)

[luke]

I didn't like the quality of plastic in our last Q-Workshop order. The carvings were amazing, though.

[Z-Dog]

Luke, were the dice lighter than normal? Material not as strong?

[Charlie]

(Sorry, Jakub, but the shipping is going to kill the US folks, I suspect; Per's right to suggest two orders.)


You know, to eliminate the poor American pricing, we could do the following:

-Have one person in Europe make one large order all to be shipped to him.
-Have one point of contact in the US.
-The Europe contact person will then send 1 package with all of the dice for the America orders to the contact person in the US.
-The US contact can then send out envelopes with the dice to everyone over here a lot more cheaply than if all of the packages were sent from Europe.

I don't know if that would be too much of a hassle or not, but it may work if someone is willing to do it.

[luke]

Luke, were the dice lighter than normal? Material not as strong?

Both. They were light in the hand and I saw some of them chip.

[pfischer]

Both. They were light in the hand and I saw some of them chip.

Oh. Then I recommend we go for the option from dice.co.uk with three blank sides, two wheels and a burning wheel. That's £0.84 per die, plus 17.5 VAT, plus shipping if we order at least 100.

Luke - why doesn't BWHQ sell customised dice? I bet you could order a shitload and push them via the website, at cons etc.

Per

[David Artman]

There's also the Chessex dice, they haven't been as forthcoming or quick in their replies as Jakub, but the prices are about: $4.5 per dice for a 30 dice order.
Holy sticker shock, Batman! Is that *really* an acceptable, standard rate for such stuff? You *definitely* need to hold off until these folks reply:

I've sent an email to the custom dice place David suggested to see what sort of quotes they provide.
Glad I found them--as I said above, they've GOT to be able to beat $4.50 a die, given what they sell those emoticon dice for (less than $1.00 a die). Again I suggest that maybe the BW/BE Powers need to talk to them about an actual product line, not "just" a short-run group buy....

[Esteban]

Holy sticker shock, Batman! Is that *really* an acceptable, standard rate for such stuff?

These are the rates that have been gathered so far, if anyone else got other rates please post them:

Chessex (Custom dice (http://www.chessex.com/Dice/Custom_Dice_Home.htm)):
10-25 dice: $1.00 per side, 6 sides @ $6 USD each
26-99 dice: $0.75 per side, 6 sides @ $4.5 USD each
100-199 dice: $0.60 per side, 6 sides @ $3.60 USD each

Q-Workshop (from Z-dog's post (http://burningwheel.org/forum/showpost.php?p=52023&postcount=53)):
10 dice @ $12 USD each
30 dice @ $8 USD each
100 dice @ $5 USD each

Dice.co.uk: (from pfischer's post (http://burningwheel.org/forum/showpost.php?p=51864&postcount=18))
These prices seem to be for 6 sides. Divide by 6 to get the per side price.
25+ pieces 3.00 GBP each, $6 USD each
51+ pieces - 2.10 GBP each, $4.20 USD each
100+ pieces - 1.68 GBP each, $3.32 USD each
200+ pieces - 1.50 GBP each, $3.00 USD each
500+ pieces - 1.20 GBP each, $2.40 USD each

Including VAT (17.5%)
25+ dice @ 3.53 GBP, $7.01 USD each
51+ dice @ 2.47 GBP, $4.91 USD each
100+ dice @ 1.97 GBP, $3.93 USD each
200+ dice @ 1.76 GBP, $3.51 USD each
500+ dice @ 1.41 GBP, $2.81 USD each

So the prices are lower but the VAT makes them higher. I'm not sure if the VAT is applicable to all orders, someone in UK/Europe could better inform us.

CustomDice.com:
16mm d6, with any engraving and any 1 color paint per side.

1-19 dice @ $6.50 USD each
20-49 dice @ $5.00 USD each
50-99 dice @ $4.00 USD each
100-199 dice @ $3.25 USD each

Shipping information:
The prices quoted have varied from $5 USD to $30 USD. So that's something to consider as that can add up to a 10% increase on the final order price.

Send me a PM if any of these are wrong so I can correct them and keep the info in one post, instead of spread across the whole thread :)

[Thor]

Luke - why doesn't BWHQ sell customised dice? I bet you could order a shitload and push them via the website, at cons etc.

We had customized dice at one point (from Q-Workshop). They had a very nice design. But they weren't big sellers. And they're expensive enough that we couldn't get any margin on them. I think Luke wound up giving most of them away to customers at cons.

[Yagathai]

GIVING them away? If I'd have known that...

I'll second Luke's criticism: They were way too light for my taste. But they did indeed look amazing.

[Z-Dog]

Light and chipping?

Sounds like my original Dungeons and Dragons Basic Set dice with the crayon.

Thanks for the heads up!

[Esteban]

Added the latest price information (http://burningwheel.org/forum/showpost.php?p=52141&postcount=66).

At 100 dice, CustomDice.com is the cheapest and allows for 6 side engraving and coloring. It's $3.25 per dice. Anyways, let me know what you guys think.

[luke]

I think Luke wound up giving most of them away to customers at cons.

No, we sold sets of them. There were odd dice remainders that didn't make it into sets. I gave those remainders away with purchase at cons. I still have one left!

EDIT: Also, if you're really going to go through with this, keep your symbols very simple and graphic. The simpler they are -- the thicker you can make the lines -- the better you can read the dice. Also, make sure you use distinct plastic and ink colors -- like black on white or yellow on red. Using two cool colors also makes the dice hard to read.

[David Artman]

At 100 dice, CustomDice.com is the cheapest and allows for 6 side engraving and coloring. It's $3.25 per dice. Anyways, let me know what you guys think.
Did they say anything about making a permanent product on their GameStation site? Also, what about mixed sets (ex: 10 each of red/orange on black, gray, and white)?

And what about it, Luke or Chris (or whomever holds rights to the symbol)? Perhaps you should see what their arrangement is for making dice for your game(s) and giving you a cut of their sales (or being a short-run dice provider and retailer)? Or would you just want to buy bulk and repackage and sell yourself(ves)?

[Esteban]

Did they say anything about making a permanent product on their GameStation site? Also, what about mixed sets (ex: 10 each of red/orange on black, gray, and white)?

I didn't really inquire about setting up a product line, as BE and the Burning Wheel are not my property. I just asked about making some dice with the graphics Chris made and they allowed us to print onto dice.

I'm asking about mixed sets. Chessex said mixing die colors was not an issue, they still count as part of the same batch. I'll post as soon as I hear from CustomDice.com.

[Thor]

And what about it, Luke or Chris (or whomever holds rights to the symbol)? Perhaps you should see what their arrangement is for making dice for your game(s) and giving you a cut of their sales (or being a short-run dice provider and retailer)? Or would you just want to buy bulk and repackage and sell yourself(ves)?

I'm not speaking for Luke here (he's more than capable of doing it himself), but I'm pretty sure neither Chris nor Luke would see a commercial product as kosher. It's cool if you want to make something for yourself, though.

[David Artman]

I'm not speaking for Luke here (he's more than capable of doing it himself), but I'm pretty sure neither Chris nor Luke would see a commercial product as kosher. It's cool if you want to make something for yourself, though.
*scratch head*
Where do I imply that it wouldn't be one of their products, to manage and from which to profit? Not here:

Again I suggest that maybe the BW/BE Powers need to talk to them about an actual product line, not "just" a short-run group buy....
Nor here:

Note that the company above also sells dice sets for games (at http://www.GameStation.net). Thus, you might be able to do something along the lines of allowing them to use BE/BW art to sell the dice themselves, in exchange for some kind of discount on your initial bulk order (or whatever deal they make to be supplier for the other games there)?
Now, fair enough, that second was was slap-dash and I didn't make clear what I was taking as given: "allowing them to use BE/BW art" is not something anyone but Chris or Luke can decide. But, now, I think it's a bad deal for them to make such an arrangement for just one bulk order; hence the reason I switched to the proposal in the former quote: set up an actual product line with them, and let us go and buy from Chris/Luke, and let them earn a bit of extra income, and let us pay something closer to the $1-a-die price points that GameStation has for their existing "dice game" products. I would surely buy a heck of a lot more dice at $12 or $15 for ten (in black, gray, white) than I would $36 or $40 for ten.

Anyhow, not trying to be too defensive, but c'mon; I am not exactly newb enough to think someone can or should piggyback onto their IP or use their iconography without their permission.

That said, there's nothing--but fear of being The Asshole--to prevent someone from (say) making dice with three blank, two dot, and one star sides (or a variation on the BW progression, for black, white, and gray sets) and selling them as "Funk Dice" or any other name that avoids the terms "burning" and "wheel" or "empire". The notion of a six sider with a 50% change of being FOO, a 33.3% change of being BAR, and a 16.6% chance of being SNAFU isn't patented (is it?) or copyrighted (no IP violations). Not to give anyone ideas, but them's the facts.

Anyhow, back to the regularly scheduled program, already in progress....
-----
I'd consider (only consider, not commit to) being part of a group-buy ONLY IF I was assured that a later, packaged product would not come to pass (an assurance stronger than the "Lucas DVD Promise"). I don't want to buy BE dice at $4 a pop only to find that, in a month or six, they come out for a third the price. After all, I already own (*count, count, shuffle*) something like eighty d6.

Hence the reason I haven't committed to the group buy: I think there's a cheaper way for it to be done which would also support the artist and designer; and I am not quite wealthy enough to buy custom dice usable in only two games which cost about the same as solid metal dice (http://crystalcaste.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=CC&Category_Code=DM). Sorry, but I'm only a middle class American, living in the Time of Bush....

[Thor]

David, I was strictly referring to dice with the Burning Wheel logo or Chris's wheel and worms.

Your Funk dice are fine.

[Z-Dog]

Added the latest price information (http://burningwheel.org/forum/showpost.php?p=52141&postcount=66).

At 100 dice, CustomDice.com is the cheapest and allows for 6 side engraving and coloring. It's $3.25 per dice. Anyways, let me know what you guys think.

I'll go with cheap to buy, quality made. Chessex makes some good ones.

I vote blank on white.

Don't care: BE or BW

I'm in for at least 10 dice. Could go as many as 30.

[stormsweeper]

I have no stake in this, being well supplied in regular pipped d6s, but I highly suggest you first get a minimum order of custom dice before you go all out and mass order a ton of dice that may not work out.

[David Artman]

...still wondering if C or L are considering a 10-pack set as a product....

[luke]

I don't have the resources to produce dice right now. It's the in "that would be cool" category on the to do list.

[David Artman]

I am going to contact CustomDice/GameStation to see what arrangements they can make (ccing you, Luke).

[David Artman]

Anything come of that email, Luke? If they take more than a week to reply, I say forget about 'em.

[stormsweeper]

Question: Did Luke ever ask you to act on his behalf?

[David Artman]

Answer: No.

Question: Did anyone here attempt to act on his behalf by looking into making a product which will allow him/them to profit from his/their IP(s), rather than a custom one-off bulk order that doesn't use their iconography and, thus, doesn't help to promote the Burning product line?

Question: Did anyone appoint you to be his whip; he doesn't seem the least bit bothered, why are you?

Question: Is it typical of this community to imperiously question someone who comes along with enthusiasm and tries to help everyone save money while also trying to help the creator(s) make money (i.e. rather than only the dice provider making money... and a LOT of it, from the quotes I've seen)?

You needn't reply... my questions are rhetorical.
David
(P.S. Thanks for waiting until The Day I Quit Smoking to jerk my chain about something I did nearly a week ago.)

[stormsweeper]

Strangely enough, my question was also rhetorical.

[luke]

HEY! BOTH OF YOU. KNOCK IT OFF.

Anthony, you should know better.

David, if you have a problem with a user on these boards, PM me, Thor or Dro.

Do not flame each other on these boards. Do not antagonize each other on these boards.

Now shake hands and don't let it happen again.

Moderator Luke

[David Artman]

*shake*