What to do when Failure is more interesting

[zipht]

I run a game, this past Saturday where a player wanted to circle someone that hated him. In a way he liked my proposed failure better...

At the time I went with it, as it moved the story along..

I was just wondering how others have dealt with simulator situations.

[Paul B]

If there's no conflict, Say Yes.

p.

[Mel White]

I run a game, this past Saturday where a player wanted to circle someone that hated him. In a way he liked my proposed failure better...


Tell us more about this!

One of the neat things about having a 'randomizer' (the dice) in a game is that the future is uncertain. So, even when a proposed 'failure' might even be preferred (meaning that there is really just a choice between two courses of action) rolling the dice brings drama to the game because 'what happens next' is unknown until the dice tell us!

Mel

[Z-Dog]

Yeah, let's hear more: was he looking for someone to beat up? Traitors in his midst?

I can imagine instances where looking for someone who hates you...and you fail the roll...and you find someone who loves you, could be 1000 times worse!

"I want to find a traitor to the crown!" [fails roll]

"Uh oh, looks like it's your loving, sweet wife!" :grin:

[Dwight]

In a way he liked my proposed failure better...
What do you do when this happens? Pop the bubbly and celebrate because you just WON THE GAME! :)

I'm not sure why they'd bother roll? Unless they really wanted the Test for Advancement. I wouldn't force them to roll, just go with what you both agree on.

[Z-Dog]

If there's no conflict, Say Yes.

p.

I like my idea of turning failure on its head, but I can also see how right Paul and Blakkie are: asking for an enemy is going to give you all kinds of trouble/tests anyway, so just say Yes! (to failure). :)

[zipht]

Ok more infomation. Last Saturday I demoed Burning Wheel for a local group. I used latest demo gameDamsel_in_distress. (http://www.burningwheel.org/wiki/index.php?title=Damsel_in_distress) The players had localed the princes. she's on a land ship.. they decided to rest for the night, a test of some kind is made. What they wanted was local lord with a keep they could stay in. Ok so they got that. Next Oone of them wanted to know him.

No he wanted this noble to not like him. He was gunning for a belief here about nobles.. So his intent was that this guy not like him.. I matched that with ok he may not like your but he likes the Capitan that took the Damsel you all are after..

So yes... after talking with him about what his intent was... I tried to match it with something that he wouldn't like. This is the first time I had a Player like negative results. It was a weird moment. But it seems fine that you could circle someone that doesn't like you.

nick

[Kublai]

I think if he succeeded, the Noble would hate him. But if he failed, the Noble would be impossibly friendly and go out of his way to help that PC.

[Mel White]

But it seems fine that you could circle someone that doesn't like you.


Sure, for example if you want to bring in one of your enemy's minions for questioning or if you want to send a message to your enemy and need a messenger. Failure, in this case, could mean the guy has a suicide vest and is going to blow himself up in your HQ.

Mel

[Kintara]

I think if he succeeded, the Noble would hate him. But if he failed, the Noble would be impossibly friendly and go out of his way to help that PC.I think it depends on what sort of belief the player was angling for. If any belief about nobles will do, but he wants to have his character have some sort of self-righteous hatred of nobles (or something), then that might be perfect. If he fails, then he could make up a Belief about how nobles are wonderful and generous (which could easily lead to self-righteous hatred pretty quickly, after a nice betrayal by some other noble). But there's also the worry that he might disengage from the noble if the noble is too friendly (no conflict), and might have a stronger preference about how the Belief should be set up, in which case I might just say yes, and let the player have some color to justify his Belief how he wants it. Then I'll challenge his Belief.

Does that make sense?

It's one of those things about testing for something "bad" versus saying yes to complications everyone likes. You don't want to end up in a situation where they fail the test and get rewarded (tricksy players...;)) or don't get a meaty complication.

Another way to go would be to pervert the intent so that the noble still hates him, but in the wrong way. If, say, the noble has a good reason to hate the PC, then the self-righteousness goes out the window, but there's still a conflict. Or, to go yet another way, the noble might like the PC so much that he demands that the PC marries his daughter.