jchokey
03-12-2008, 04:13 AM
As Luke and Thor reminded me in another recent thread (http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?p=55099&posted=1#post55099), BW doesn't have explicit rules for how languages should factor into social tests or DOWs.
That's probably a good reason not to *make* languages an issue, if it can be avoided. However, in the next session of our game, it's quite likely that language *will* be an issue in a rather peculiar DOW and I'd like to get your thoughts on how it might be handled.
Here's the situation roughly speaking (I've simplified a bit, using only two PCs and an NPC monster, to get to the heart of the issue).
The PCs have encountered an intelligent monster known as a Nolah. 1-2 of the PCs want to try to engage in DOW with the Nolah. The Nolah only speaks Ivashi, a very obscure languge normally spoken by it and other strange monsters.
By remarkable chance (and a very strange background history), one of the PCs (named Maban) actually happens to be fluent in Ivashi. Maban also has a Persuasion of B3, which means that she could probably do OK for herself in a DOW with with the Nolah-- but not necessarily spectacularly.
By contrast, Judyn (the other PC) has a Persuasion of B6.... however, she doesn't speak Ivashi! Because of this, she probably couldn't engage in a DOW with the Nolah on her own (see Luke's, Thor's and others comments here (http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?p=55099&posted=1#post55099).)
Given those circumstances, here's a few possible scenarios that might come up-- and my thoughts on how they might be best handled. I'd greatly your thoughts on these.
***********
Scenario 1) Judyn and Maban both want to persuade the Nolah to do something through a DOW-- and they're in agreement as to what that is.
My thoughts, I'm inclined to say that Maban has to be primary "duelist" against the Nolah, since Judyn isn't fluent in the Nolah's tongue. Judyn can help Maban by making suggestions on what to say (thus giving helping dice), but the DOW has to be between *Maban* (using her own B3 persuasion) and the Nolah since Maban is really the only one who can speak the language.
Thoughts?
***********
Scenario 2) Judyn wants to engage the Nolah in a DOW, but Maban doesn't really care. She's willing to 'interpret' between the two, but she's not herself contributing arguments or participating in any way other than translating back and forth.
My guess would be to say that the DOW could proceed between Judyn and the Nolah, with Judyn getting to use her B6 Persuasion as a dueling skill and with Maban *not* helping (and not able to use any of her traits in the duel since she's just interpreting).
Other thoughts?
*************
Scenario 3) Judyn wants to get the Nolah to do X, but Maban wants to persuade it to do something completely different. Maban tells Judyn that she'll translate for her-- but in fact, she's ignoring what Judyn says and is just making her own arguments to the Nolah based on what *she* wants.
My thoughts: Just treat it as a straight duel between Maban and the Nolah. Judyn doesn't help (mechanically) or anything, despite the fact that she's telling Maban things to say-- because Maban's just ignoring it and making her own arguments.
But, now here's a question: would Judyn be 'bound' to the results of the DOW? I'm inclined to think not since she's not actually either a participant--- or a member of the 'audience', since she can't hear what's *really* being said. That would mean (I think) that Maban would have to make a separate Persuasion (or Falsehood?) roll against Judyn's will (or do a DOW with Judyn) to make her agree to the results.
Your thoughts?
That's probably a good reason not to *make* languages an issue, if it can be avoided. However, in the next session of our game, it's quite likely that language *will* be an issue in a rather peculiar DOW and I'd like to get your thoughts on how it might be handled.
Here's the situation roughly speaking (I've simplified a bit, using only two PCs and an NPC monster, to get to the heart of the issue).
The PCs have encountered an intelligent monster known as a Nolah. 1-2 of the PCs want to try to engage in DOW with the Nolah. The Nolah only speaks Ivashi, a very obscure languge normally spoken by it and other strange monsters.
By remarkable chance (and a very strange background history), one of the PCs (named Maban) actually happens to be fluent in Ivashi. Maban also has a Persuasion of B3, which means that she could probably do OK for herself in a DOW with with the Nolah-- but not necessarily spectacularly.
By contrast, Judyn (the other PC) has a Persuasion of B6.... however, she doesn't speak Ivashi! Because of this, she probably couldn't engage in a DOW with the Nolah on her own (see Luke's, Thor's and others comments here (http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?p=55099&posted=1#post55099).)
Given those circumstances, here's a few possible scenarios that might come up-- and my thoughts on how they might be best handled. I'd greatly your thoughts on these.
***********
Scenario 1) Judyn and Maban both want to persuade the Nolah to do something through a DOW-- and they're in agreement as to what that is.
My thoughts, I'm inclined to say that Maban has to be primary "duelist" against the Nolah, since Judyn isn't fluent in the Nolah's tongue. Judyn can help Maban by making suggestions on what to say (thus giving helping dice), but the DOW has to be between *Maban* (using her own B3 persuasion) and the Nolah since Maban is really the only one who can speak the language.
Thoughts?
***********
Scenario 2) Judyn wants to engage the Nolah in a DOW, but Maban doesn't really care. She's willing to 'interpret' between the two, but she's not herself contributing arguments or participating in any way other than translating back and forth.
My guess would be to say that the DOW could proceed between Judyn and the Nolah, with Judyn getting to use her B6 Persuasion as a dueling skill and with Maban *not* helping (and not able to use any of her traits in the duel since she's just interpreting).
Other thoughts?
*************
Scenario 3) Judyn wants to get the Nolah to do X, but Maban wants to persuade it to do something completely different. Maban tells Judyn that she'll translate for her-- but in fact, she's ignoring what Judyn says and is just making her own arguments to the Nolah based on what *she* wants.
My thoughts: Just treat it as a straight duel between Maban and the Nolah. Judyn doesn't help (mechanically) or anything, despite the fact that she's telling Maban things to say-- because Maban's just ignoring it and making her own arguments.
But, now here's a question: would Judyn be 'bound' to the results of the DOW? I'm inclined to think not since she's not actually either a participant--- or a member of the 'audience', since she can't hear what's *really* being said. That would mean (I think) that Maban would have to make a separate Persuasion (or Falsehood?) roll against Judyn's will (or do a DOW with Judyn) to make her agree to the results.
Your thoughts?