Design Sydney's Sniper Laser

[luke]

How about sniper laser. Anyone got a cool sci fi Iron Empires appropriate name for that? A general designation rather than something specific is best. Anyone want to design it?

[chris_worm]

How about "Laser Lance"

H6/H12/H16 Capacitor, Heavy(5), Long Range, Heater, Requires Aiming

Requires Aiming (Ob limitation) +1 Ob for weapons fire in close combat or for shot opportunities gained via suppresive fire actions

[luke]

too knightly. I'm going to break this off into its own thread.

I like the Aiming TT!

[Sydney Freedberg]

That's a nice Tech Trait, indeed. It probably shouldn't be that Heavy, though -- at least as I imagine the TO&E, Scout-Snipers are mostly regular Anvil troops, not powered armor goons in Iron.

[luke]

Agreed. It also doesn't need an additional modifier in CC. It's an "assault" weapon so it's already penalized. But hey, what's another +1 Ob?!

Damage is good -- it's brootal!. Capacitor's kosher. Needs more/better tech traits.

[chris_worm]

Laser Lance - Not wed to the name - if anyone else has a better name go for it. I was trying to remember what the name of some of the weapons from the lensman series were; I'll have to check my books tonight.

The reason for the heavy trait is beacuse I used the Assault Laser from the BE book as the baseline, which already had that trait.

In addition to a sniper weapon we should also burn up a "Sniper Scope", this is where a +2D advantage to called shots vrs vehicles could be defined, or +1D advantage to Direct Fire firefight actions.

[chris_worm]

I felt the +1 ob in close combat was justified, since it made using this in CC just as difficult as using a squad support weapon. I could have made it a SS weapon, but many of those had damage in the Vehicle range even for incidental hits, and I didn't want to make the damage that Brutal; the Mark and Superior as they stand are bad enough for most troops (and some light vehicles)

[pfischer]

What about calling it the RILR Sniper Rifle (Real Impulse Long Range) - pronounced the "riller"?

[DanielJDavis]

Kinetic Impulse Laser Rifle ("killer").

[NkEnNy]

Rail Impulse Projectile Rifle or 'RIP Rifle' or RIP-R 'Ripper'

Oh Bleh. Does it have to be a Laser Rifle?

Overburn Pattern - 'Rail Impulse Power Rifle' - RIP-R
Gamma Pattern - 'Ray Impulse Penetator Rifle' - RIP-R

...

[chris_worm]

Great names - but Lasers don't have projectiles, nor generate damage from kinetic energy, so I'm not quite convinced.

CEBW = Coherent Energy Beam Weapon

so how about CETR (pronounced setter) = Coherent Energy Target Rifle

[chris_worm]

Some re-working based on Luke's and Syd's feedback

H5/H10/H15 Capacitor, Heavy(5), Long Range, Heater, Requires Aiming, Bipod

Requires Aiming (Ob limitation) +1 Ob for shot opportunities gained via suppresive fire actions

Bipod (Adv, Cat limx2) +1D STR for firing attached weapon, only if previous firefight action was not Advance, Flank, Withdraw, or Close Combat

---
Design notes - I lowered the damage to match the Kerrn sword, as I reduced the severity of the Aiming TT and added the Bipod TT (don't get something for nothing in my worlds). This still matches my expectation that it shouldn't be used as a CC weapon (although is useful in the first CC action against forces advancing against a defenders positon), whist meeting Syd's desire (I hope) that it be a weapon usable by ordinary troops.

[NkEnNy]

Photon.Accelerator.Railed.Magnetizer Rifle - 'HaRM Rifle'

Coherent.Plasma.Sequencer Gun - 'Corpse Gun'
or /Photon

Magnetic Accelerator Gun - 'MAG'

[zabieru]

Photon.Accelerator.Railed.Magnetizer Rifle - 'HaRM Rifle'

Coherent.Plasma.Sequencer Gun - 'Corpse Gun'
or /Photon

Magnetic Accelerator Gun - 'MAG'

I like these! hARM gun and CorPSe gun would be in keeping with Chris's convention. And I'd say hARM and CorPSe, without the gun, play better (Like 'screm' and 'nail.')

[Z-Dog]

Photon.Accelerator.Railed.Magnetizer Rifle - 'HaRM Rifle'

Coherent.Plasma.Sequencer Gun - 'Corpse Gun'
or /Photon

Magnetic Accelerator Gun - 'MAG'

CP-SeP, aka Corpse Gun

"Cip-Sep" sounds good. "Get up in that bell tower with the CP-Sep, lieutenant!"

or even "See-Cep"....

...ok, whatever...but "Corpse Gun" sounds great!

[luke]

I am not a fan of the corpse, harm or other "too literal" names. SCrEW pistol being the exception!

[Thor]

I'd be tempted to make it a Gauss rifle/coilgun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coilgun).

How about: Multistage Magnetic Accelerator Rifle with Telescopic Optical Array (MMAR-TOA)?

[Sydney Freedberg]

I think the acronym acrobatics are gettin' a wee bit silly....

I do like the coilgun/railgun idea. Energy beams scatter slightly in atmosphere and leave an ionization trail, making a big, glowing marker of where you just fired from (even if the actual beam is invisible, the ionized air molecules won't be). That makes a solid slug preferable for snipers.

So how about "magnetically accelerated projectile rifle" for the fancy name, and for short: mag gun.

[Sydney Freedberg]

Or "mag rifle," or even just "railgun."

I imagine it as a big, blocky beast of a weapon, kind of like a contemporary .50 cal sniper rifle crossed with an industrial stapler. Does "ugly as hell" count for a -1 tech trait? Probably not....

[Z-Dog]

how about a penalty for taking time to set it up (either physically or electronically---needs to sync up with an overhead satillite? or reload? uses some sort of ammo that is dangerous to handle (super cold or hot)?

or the one shot is so hot the barrel has to cool down (or even be changed out)?

----

just seeing a two man sniper team...one guy shoots and the other guy assists (as well as spots)...maybe he assists in ways other than spotting


Oh, and kinda like the Barrett, this gun going to be able to punch through a light APC or something?

just throwing some crazy shit out of my butt

[Sydney Freedberg]

Maybe "Kicks like a mule" -- does an H2 wound to whoever fires it (so someone in Ballistic/Glass Anvil armor or better is okay, someone unarmored is in serious pain).

[Z-Dog]

Maybe "Kicks like a mule" -- does an H2 wound to whoever fires it (so someone in Ballistic/Glass Anvil armor or better is okay, someone unarmored is in serious pain).

sounds good. how about it uses some crazy robot tentacle arms to brace itself by digging into the ground/wrapping braces around windowsills/doorways...and it STILL kicks so hard it leaves a short trench in the ground/rips the frame off the window and therefore needs to be reset/rebraced?

I'm envisioning a blast so hard everyone's lungs within five feet nearly pop...like, "Exhale Private, I'm about to fire!"

-------

ok maybe i've gone from sniper rifle to personal howitzer....

[Thor]

From what I can tell, coilguns would have recoil at least equal to modern firearms of their equivalent size.

They'd require a lot of power. And they'd produce a lot of heat.

On the plus side, they should be able to pierce an engine block and still take out the target.

[Sydney Freedberg]

how about it uses some crazy robot tentacle arms to brace itself by digging into the ground/wrapping braces around windowsills/doorways...and it STILL kicks so hard it leaves a short trench in the ground/rips the frame off the window and therefore needs to be reset/rebraced?... ok maybe i've gone from sniper rifle to personal howitzer....

And Bat Kraken carries eight of these -- shooting one with each tentacle! In opposite directions! While sliding backwards across the floor!

Wait, that's Luke Crane's remake of The Replacement Killers.



More seriously: Yay, coilguns.

[chris_worm]

I give you a Laser Sniper rifle, then go away and you change the need to a gauss sniper rifle, and then you all go Bat Kraken on me. Tsh.

Oh well.

Those wanting a sophisticated Laser Sniping weapon

CETR (Coherent Energy Target Rifle) Assault Weapon
H5/H10/H15 Capacitor, Heavy(5), Long Range, Heater, Requires Aiming, Bipod

Requires Aiming (Ob limitation) +1 Ob for shot opportunities gained via suppresive fire actions

Bipod (Adv, Cat limx2) +1D STR for firing attached weapon, only if previous firefight action was not Advance, Flank, Withdraw, or Close Combat

Those wanting a BFG Gauss Accelerator

MAG (Magnetic Accelerator Gun) Squad Support Weapon
V4/V8/V12 Magazine, Heavy(5), Bipod, Recoil

Bipod (Adv, Cat limx2) +1D STR for firing attached weapon, only if previous firefight action was not Advance, Flank, Withdraw, or Close Combat

Perhaps I should give it the trait BFG - +2D Advantage to intimidation tests

[luke]

Coherent Energy Target Weapon

Long Range Coherent Energy Beam Weapon

Long Range Coherent Energy Precision Weapon

LR- CEPW

Ell Ar Sep dub? Bleh. Sep dub? C dub? LR C dub? "We've got a C dub team on the ridge, commander."

-L

[MechaMan]

How 'bout:
Precision Anti-Personnel Rifle: PAPR, or 'Pappy' as Anvil vets like to call 'em...
Or maybe:
Personnel Extreme-Precision Rifle: PEPR, or 'Pepper,' but most vets like to call it the 'Extreme Prejudice' weapon...

silly, neh?
;)

[NkEnNy]

re: Names

I agree. To literal Death-dealing names aren't really proper; though soldier nicknames certainly make an exception.

Pop-guns, Hush puppies, "The pig", burp guns, and Hks are all examples of real life soldier nicknames. Perhaps the same could be applied here? What does the weapon look like? What does it sound like? What does it actually do.

re: Coilguns

Wouldn't a Railgun have all of ZERO recoil? The idea being a projectile suspended in a null-gravity field then launched at ridiculus speeds, through magnetic motivation. Frictionless until it hits air.

[luke]

It's not a rifle. There's no rifling in the barrel!

[cmoeller]

Railgun: Sure it's a rifle. the magnetic coil imparts spin to the projectile. Maybe, since it's virtual rifling, it's the V-rifle :)

Laser rifle: okay I'll give you that the beam doesn't have spin to make it more accurate. It's not a LITERAL rifle, but it's called a rifle because it replaces the rifleman's traditional weapon. We still call it a rifle platoon, but it's go lasers, so they're laser rifles.

Alternatively, we could call them Luskets I suppose... or Larquebuses.

[NkEnNy]

Bang Ur Ded! - B.U.D "This is my bud, there are many like it. But this <here> is my buddy.

Zoom Stick - "A shoulder fired weapon that goes 'ZOOM' " (or flush? flooosh! stick)

Peep Shot - "peep through the scope, take a shot" *snicker*

---- Anyhow ----

Naming conventions
I like this MAG (Magnetic Accelerator Gun) but maybe apphend -Weapon instead of -Gun? Luke style.

STATS and Regular Rifle?
In term of Stats for these weapons I beg you to remember that there is already a 'Rifle' in the weaponlist which could easily serve as a platform for either a true Sniper Rifle or more portable DMR. (Infact slap on a scope and I'd say you have a perfectly serviceable Designated Marsman Rifle)

Rifle H5, H8, H13 Magazine, Long Range

Add some combination of targeting traits found earlier in the thread.


All in all I guess a projectile weapon would make a better PORTABLE sniper rifle as one could only assume that an 'Assault Laser' has already taken its range and power potential to its logical conclusion. (that is without making it a "Gizmo" or "Artifact tech" type item. Aka Special Device)

[NkEnNy]

<Snip>
Laser rifle: okay I'll give you that the beam doesn't have spin to make it more accurate. It's not a LITERAL rifle, but it's called a rifle because it replaces the rifleman's traditional weapon. We still call it a rifle platoon, but it's go lasers, so they're laser rifles.
<Snip>


Yes! Finally!
LASER PLATOONS to battle the threat of the MAGMA BAT KRAKEN

MWHAHAHAH (etc.)

[Saphim]

I like this MAG (Magnetic Accelerator Gun) but maybe apphend -Weapon instead of -Gun? Luke style.


Magnetic Accelerator Weapon, short MAW. That seems to be a good fit, at least in my book.

[luke]

Laser rifle: okay I'll give you that the beam doesn't have spin to make it more accurate. It's not a LITERAL rifle, but it's called a rifle because it replaces the rifleman's traditional weapon. We still call it a rifle platoon, but it's go lasers, so they're laser rifles.

Modern military parlance is slowly phasing out terms like rifle, pistol and gun for weapons and sidearms. Admittedly, sniper rifles are still called rifles, but why not push the trend?

[NkEnNy]

Modern military parlance is slowly phasing out terms like rifle, pistol and gun for weapons and sidearms. Admittedly, sniper rifles are still called rifles, but why not push the trend?

In fact isn't the US Army's Militarized Remington M700 _Rifle _ given the designation the M24 SWS (Sniper Weapon System).

But then again this is Sci-Fi. I don't see why their naming schemes/conventions should be defined by a specific 21 century's organizations nomenclature and fetish for TLA's (three letter abbriviations) ^^ :D

--- Anyway ---

Yes 'MAW' does sound very good.

[cmoeller]

Moeller likes MAW very much. Maybe MAW Rifle would be better?

-Chrisiskidding

[Sydney Freedberg]

And Bat Kraken carries eight of these -- shooting one with each tentacle! In opposite directions! While sliding backwards across the floor!

I forgot that, in Bat Kraken's two long tentacles, he carries a pair of katanas. To cut tanks in half. Without touching them.



On a slightly more serious note, I wouldn't worry about "rifle" as a designation. The real-world military is full of misappropriated terms already. A "sergeant" was originally any professional soldier of common birth, not a rank at all (true confession: I learned this from playing Medieval Total War). An "ensign" was originally a guy who carried a flag (an ensign). "General" was originally an adjective, meaning "pertaining to the whole force instead of a particular unit"; hence Captain-General, which became plain general, Lieutenant-General, which didn't change, and Sergeant Major-General, which became Major General. Words shift meaning over time.

[luke]

Sure, I love that stuff.

So how about this, I don't like the term "rifle" for this weapon. I think we can do better!

Mr Moeller wants a MAW, give him a MAW. It'll go nicely with his SCrEW and PAc.

[Saphim]

the designation the M24 SWS (Sniper Weapon System).


Magnetic Accelerator Weapon System. It seems to be a compromise.

[luke]

Ok, so what are the stats for the MAWS?


And I still want a sniper laser!

[Z-Dog]

may I say my cup of nerdjoy runeth over at this discussion?

MAW sounds great

do me a favor and, the next time you guys go stating up some imaginary military hardware, work KRAKEN into the name

would make z dog's tail wag happily

[chris_worm]

Ok, so what are the stats for the MAWS?


And I still want a sniper laser!

OK Scrolling back two pages and modyfying my earlier submissions based on the discussions.

Those wanting a sophisticated laser sniping weapon (Coherent Energy Long-range Weapon):

CELW (Assault Weapon)
H5/H10/H15 Capacitor, Heavy(5), Long Range, Heater, Requires Aiming, Bipod

Those wanting a gauss accelerator capable of damaging all but the most resilient of targets (Magnetic Accelerator Weapon System):

MAWS (Squad Support Weapon)
V4/V8/V12 Magazine, Heavy(5), Bipod, Requires Aiming

The new traits are:

Requires Aiming (Ob limitation) +1 Ob for shot opportunities gained via suppresive fire actions

Bipod (Adv, Cat limx2) +1D STR for firing attached weapon, only if previous firefight action was not Advance, Flank, Withdraw, or Close Combat

I'd also suggest adding a scope

Optical Targeting System 2pt
+2D advantage to shot opportunities vrs vehicle sub-systems, only mountable on Sniper weapons (Rifle, CELW, MAWS)
(Skill Adv, Cat Limx2, Cond Lim)

[Sydney Freedberg]

Neat.

I think the Sniper Scope is a bit limited -- it arguably allows for "called shots" against human targets as well, which in game terms means upping the Die of Fate to get more damage, which in turn requires getting more successes on your roll to hit (either to overcome a higher Obstacle you've set for yourself or to buy up the DoF after a successful hit).

[luke]

I don't think the CELW (selldub? cheldub? cellu? cello?) should have the heavy trait. If it was a power pack weapon, it'd say definitely. But given its damage ratings and ammo capacity I think it doesn't need that limitation. Or, if it has to be heavy, I'd do Heavy 4. Or you could have the Requires Aiming trait be like +1 Ob to DF unless mounted on a bipod plus the other restrictions.

And I'm going back on what I originally said, I like the Requires Aiming trait so much that I think it should include shot opportunities from Suppressive Fire and Close Combat. How about a cooler name for the trait: Technical? Delicate Instrument? Complicated Operation?

I like the scope!

-L

[Sydney Freedberg]

I I like the Requires Aiming trait so much that I think it should include shot opportunities from Suppressive Fire and Close Combat. How about a cooler name for the trait: Technical? Delicate Instrument? Complicated Operation?

"Tech Trait: Ya gotta aim it, jackass" ? Probably too long....sigh...

[Saphim]

"NO! This neither has an autofire option nor can you mount a bayonett on it"

Probably too long, too.

[Z-Dog]

how about the Mark 24-SSL?

make up whatever names you want, we all know it really means, "Sydney's Sniper Laser." ;)