my big idea: fighting for what you believe

[Z-Dog]

OK, so I've tried to get several games of BW and BE going and they've all faltered for a variety of reasons.

One thing I noticed in our last game was a real lack of direction on my part and the players.

I've been reading and thinking about games that have a built in premise, like Dogs in the Vineyard, and I realize that I might have taken this whole "let the characters drive the story" thing a bit too far, especially with players that are use to reacting to the GM.

So here's my *big idea* ;) for the next time I get people together to play some BW: fight for what you believe

well, duuuuh, Ken, it's the first thing you see on the website, right?

yeah, and I think I've been staring that the trees for so long I've lot sight of the big pic!!!

so next time, I'm going to keep that little nugget of BWHQ wisdom tucked in my GM hat and really look at each step of our setting/char creation:

what's your guy believe? is he going to fight for that? what's he willing to do?

maybe the answer to the last question is best served in play, but the first two are critical...and I think I need to ask those questions and make sure everyone's got a sense of what's going on

and if the responses I get are weak...than I think we need to keep talking about what situation we're setting up...keep talking until everyone's primed and hopping for action

[NkEnNy]

I don't really understand the problem.

Are you focusing too much on the player beliefs and not telling your story? How widely spread are your players beliefs? and most importantly of all. How much 'momentum' do they have? Are they constantly asking you for 'scenes'/actions?

Is there any time during the play where the characters stumble for purpose? If so. look at the beliefs, or if you want a more GM driven play. Kick in the door with ninja/mafia hitmen/Local tax collectors/ruffians or whatnot.

While it doesn't have to end with a Fight! kicking the players in the shins (with something! Virgin in need, Dragon burning village, noble delivering poisoned wine, mysterious star-falls, or more!) every now and then is the time-honed method of getting things back in motion.


:)
- Ken <-- yeah.

[Z-Dog]

just trying to strike that fine balance between:

here's what you're going to do

and

what do you want to do?

I've noticed that I and my players are a lot more comfortable with a larger purpose or premise built into the game. We've tried some games like PTA or The Pool where we feel a little adrift, and then I was reading Dogs and I was like, "Oh, OK, go around, solve problems before Demons take over."

So I was trying to get my head around the premise of BW and fight for what you believe seems to be it. It's like, OK here's what we're here to do...you can wander around from that path a bit, if you like, but the core of what we're trying to accomplish is THIS....rather than degenerate into freeform play and such.

[zabieru]

Ken, you are really on to something here.

My observation is that you can really look at almost any story as a Burning Wheel story, but when you do, it changes. What's in the picture stays the same, but the focus shifts, just a touch, like those people that do those weird pictures of full-size things refocused to look like miniatures (has anyone else seen those)?

The Burning Wheel doesn't work well (it's all blurry and your eyes hurt) when trying to talk about other stuff. But when you frame the same events in terms of what do I believe and how hard will I fight for them, god damn but it goes!

[Saphim]

That is the very best thing about Duel of Wits. After my last burning wheel session I was told that "the story was as great as ever"... only this time I had invested a lot less effort to make a good story, I just constantly hit their beliefs.

[Anteruo]

Ken, I too think you're onto something. Most of my players are passive. They wait for me to set the premise. I haven't played BW in a while and am seriously jonesin' to run it again since it codifies my ideas of drama so well.

I'm going to give your idea some thought and see how to apply it to my upcoming (hopefully) game.

[agony]

I think the best way to involve new players in creating the plot/premise/story is to ask them questions to kick off your character burning/world burning process.

Get right to the heart of it:

"So you want to play a seedy crook living off the street. Who fucked you over or who has something you want? Or do you have something someone else wants? What kind of story do you want to help tell? Revenge is always killer. What really motivates your character?"

Often times players will not answer those questions until they are actually posed. But when the players start realizing they have full control over the direction of the plot they usually follow suit. If they get stuck start throwing out suggestions and see if any stick. Allow other players waiting their turn to throw out suggestions too.