Group Ambushes

[gooderguy]

The surprise and ambush rules account for one player attempting to ambush another. What if a group (the PCs), are setting an ambush for a group of NPC antagonists? (this is the scene where we're starting a new campaign, so i need to get the details right for the sake of the newbies)

only one of the PCs have the stealthy skill, 2 have the inconspicuous skill, and there are probably more NPCs than PCs (let's say 8 enemy's and one 'boss' to 4 friendly's). my gut tells me to resolve all of the PC 'ambushes' independantly and split the NPCs into groups for each PC (allowing +1D helping dice for their perception tests). the boss hass observation, so he'll probably spot the ambush and attempt to 'command' any of the hesitating troops.

has anyone dealt with group ambushes? is this a reasonable way to handle it?

[Maedhros]

You could have the Stealthy guy plan and implement the ambush, with the Inconspicuous guys Helping...

[luke]

Incon and Stealthy aren't equivalent. So unless there's a mixed scenario -- infiltrating the guards or passersby while the ambusher takes up position -- they can't be used together.

Otherwise, make a single test representative for both sides. Stealthy test versus Observation then Steel test if Stealthy is successful.

[Kublai]

Inconspicuous is an appropriate ambush skill in crowded places. Stealthy is appropriate in any location.

So if this ambush is in the wilderness, those without Stealthy cannot use Inconspicuous to Help. Inconspicuous is the art of melting into a crowd unseen or appearing as if you belong in a certain location. It would be very weird for a man to be standing next to a tree trying to look inconspicuous (+4 Ob in my book!)

I think you ought to resolve the whole deal with a single versus test.

Stealthy PC rolls his skill along with any FoRKs and appropriate Helping dice from other PCs.

Boss rolls his Observation or Perception, with NPCs tossing in Helping dice if you feel there's a motivation for them to be on guard.

[gooderguy]

i think the players might try and set the ambush as a mixed scenario, yes. is that feasible?

the embassy (baddies) is traveling on a very busy trade route, so i see the players attempting to travel along the road, mingling with peasants, etc. then suddenly popping out when the stealthy guy gets into place. that's how i imagine them bringing inconspicuous into the scenario. it's a scene straight out of braveheart (and a million other medieval films).

they are all crafty players, so i'd like to be ready for anything.

for some reason, the one on one test doesn't sit well with me. these guys spent quite a bit on their inconspicuous skills (i think one character even has road-wise), and will want to use them. i'd feel bad if they didn't get the chance. :)

how would y'all do it for a mixed scenario, involving the two inconspicuous guys and the one stealthy guy? (the fourth guy will most likely be getting a test towards opening one or the other)

[Kublai]

There's nothing stopping them each rolling individually, honestly. it's just a LOT of rolling:

PC's:
- Stealthy plus Forks roll
- Inconspicuous plus Forks roll
- Inconspicuous plus Forks roll
- Unskilled test roll

NPC's:
- Boss Perception/Observation roll
- Each NPC Guard's Perception/Observation roll

And what happens when one of the PCs is spotted, which has a good chance of happening? I'd say all guards are put on alert. In my book, that means no Steel tests will be made even if the other PCs are successful. That's because the guards are already in battle mode and won't be surprised.

We recommend the one roll test because it binds all the PCs into the result at once. They're all in it together and all that - for better or worse!

[gooderguy]

And what happens when one of the PCs is spotted, which has a good chance of happening? I'd say all guards are put on alert. In my book, that means no Steel tests will be made even if the other PCs are successful. That's because the guards are already in battle mode and won't be surprised.

this is the part i'm having trouble with. i'm not sure what would put all the guards on alert. isn't the steel test the part that allows the guards to be alert or not? i see the steel test as the 'ability to react to the warning,' be it from a guard who passed perception/observation or the sudden rush of the oncoming ambushers. it's happening so fast, if you don't see it coming (success in the vs. test) you don't know where it's coming from.

it's not like the guards have a mental link. the first one to yell 'ambush' springs the ambush. sure, he's ready for battle cuz he saw it coming, but that doesn't mean his buddies are. i'm just having a hard time justifying that in the fiction, and i'm sure my players will, too.

[EarthenForge]

So, if a group of characters is hiding, and you're going to roll once, should you then have the character with the weakest Stealthy make the roll?

[Thor Olavsrud]

So, if a group of characters is hiding, and you're going to roll once, should you then have the character with the weakest Stealthy make the roll?

http://burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2722 (http://burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2722&highlight=slowest+loudest)

[EarthenForge]

http://burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2722 (http://burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2722&highlight=slowest+loudest)

Ahhh...that's what I was looking for. Thanks, man. I couldn't find it in the book, but I thought maybe I was missing it.

[Thor Olavsrud]

Ahhh...that's what I was looking for. Thanks, man. I couldn't find it in the book, but I thought maybe I was missing it.

We wish it was in the books. It was a smack the forehead kinda thing.