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View Full Version : Long overdue post about a first BW run


Mechavomit
08-19-2004, 03:56 AM
I've been meaning to post this for a few months now. In my defense, lurking is a very hard habit to break.

Anyhow, a couple months back, I finally got to run BW. I'd only been waiting around five months. I finally told people, we're playing Burning Wheel, my foot is down, the decision is made. So I sent out a few emails, summarizing bits about the rules and what I expected, then we got together for character generation and a bit of a demo. I ran Van Goten's etc.

My group is hardly worthy of the name, only because I'm the only real serious one, and we don't get together enough. I had three players, and each of them had experience pretty much limited to D&D in various incarnations. A few months earlier we'd tried our hands at 3E, only with so many of the rules carved out that it was pretty boring. I'm not a big fan of a lot of D&D's tropes anyhow, but that's neither here nor there. I'd convinced the lot to give the Wheel a go.

I'm about to explain a little bit about why Burning Wheel was such a success, but I need to note something first. One of my sisters was among the players (I have another sister who's very serious about RPGs and is dying to play BW, but alas she's in the wrong state) and she was terrible with D&D. What I want to make clear is that she's not stupid--she's actually very smart. She's just horrible with mathematical formulae in most incarnations, and she has this very strange block with THAC0 from 2nd Edition. She could never get it. Ever. Had to have the byzantine subtractions explained every single time we played. Eventually she'd just roll and shout her THAC0 and ask everyone if she hit. 3rd Edition was better, but there's a lot of rules in combat that you really need to get the most of the system. We don't like miniatures, nobody likes keeping track of attacks of opportunity and so on.

Anyhow, this is what impressed me most: my sister took to Burning Wheel like she'd read the whole rulebook cover to cover. It was completely natural. Most of the time she was explaining things to the other two players, who I considered to be much more facile with using systems. She also played the group's magic user, and I explained the sorcery rolls and all to her once or twice, and she started doing her rolls without me prompting and telling me her successes, and taking away Forte dice (she absolutely loves Shards, and used it with abandon). She excelled at the scripting, too. Actually, everybody took to scripting with surprising ease, but she was the one who surprised me.

Actually, the only part with any hitches worth mentioning was character generation, and I blame that on only having the one Character Burner. The only complaint anyone had was a lack of granularity in the weapons. He wanted an extended equipment list. He came up with his own solution, and wants to play a magic user when/if we play again. I'm not sure everyone was converted to the extent I was--but the demo was short, and kind of disjointed as it was my first time running, in person, a game more mechanically complex than kill puppies for satan. I will say that I know my sister enjoyed it a lot more than I'd seen her enjoy D&D, because she was actually getting what she wanted out of the system. That was great.

"That was great" generally sums up my feelings about how things worked. I was concerned about scripting, but it went so smoothly once we started. So that was great.

Kublai
08-19-2004, 11:57 AM
Awesome! I am glad you guys enjoyed it as much as I do!

You did the right thing to create your own weapon stats if the generality of the existing ones don't satisfy your players. So far, there is the Zweihander thread on the forums and there is a rapier that was designed: Pow 2, Add 2, VA 1, Fast.

Once you have your weapon, you can move on to create special manouvers for it! Be sure to post anything your players come up with. I'd love to see them.

Mechavomit
08-19-2004, 01:43 PM
I'm not sure we're quite to the stage of coming up with our own maneuvers. Don't get me wrong, it's something I'll try my hand at eventually, but I'd like to get more actual experience with the system. I do love tweaking, and I'm working (haphazardly, mind) on converting Shadowrun to BW. A couple of friends and I have a long-running play by post game and the Shadowrun system is just terrible. One of my friends said, we need something with more consistency, and I said, Burning Wheel is great, and completely consistent. So once we can get copies for everybody, we'll all bend ourselves to that task. And I'll certainly post that. Aside from consistency, I think the scripting system will be greatly suited to the posting medium. I've been watching the play by post here, to see how it goes.

Right now, I'm hoping I'll get to play with this group again, so we can go into some of the deeper stuff we missed, like more melee mechanics, FoRKing, some real advancement and artha. All my favorite stuff that we barely touched on, because it was just a demo.

luke
08-23-2004, 08:22 PM
thanks for posting this, man!

You bring up a point I see often: Newbies interested in roleplaying have no trouble picking up BW quickly. Long time gamers find that BW often challenges their preconceptions and thereby they tend to have an emotional reaction to the game. Sometimes a positive one, but often a negative one.

I have a younger brother who picked up BW when he was 9 or so. My friend walked up to him one day and said, "Hey Hart, what's a D20?"

Hart looked at him blankly, "I dunno."

::sigh::

Perhaps ignorance really is bliss.

-L

Manicrack
08-23-2004, 10:59 PM
Perhaps ignorance really is bliss.


Perhaps?
Dude, everone who had to play a game of D&D wiht all its weird math and stupid power gaming and did not enjoy it(many as far as i know) would love to erase the memory of the D20.

-Crack

Mechavomit
08-24-2004, 05:22 PM
Let me tell you, when I picked up both Riddle of Steel and Burning Wheel, I wished I could go back and have these be the first games I saw. Burning Wheel fixes everything I never liked about D&D, while still keeping the feel of imminent discovery, adventure waiting over the next hill, and all the wonder of that the "adventurer" style of play brings. Not that D&D is bad at what it does, it's not. I'm just not all that interested in what D&D does. What's more, both games converted me to the dice pool mechanic when before, thanks to Storyteller and Shadowrun, I hated it.

I could kind of see the faces of my two more experienced (systems-wise) players fall, when I said, 'No there's not really a whole lot of magical equipment to be found.' I've been gradually bringing them around to the idea that the advancement comes in through their skills, that characters get more 'powerful' by doing things, not finding things. Talking about BITs as ways to negotiate with the GM and the rules got some sparks, though.

My problem is that none of these folks are used to a more narrative, character-driven style of play. I'm close to despair that they're just not interested in it, though I'm hoping (for my sake) that it's more that they've never been exposed to it. I think BW is a perfect way to go about it, I just hope it works.

Wuxing
08-24-2004, 05:40 PM
I've been gradually bringing them around to the idea that the advancement comes in through their skills, that characters get more 'powerful' by doing things, not finding things. Talking about BITs as ways to negotiate with the GM and the rules got some sparks, though.

This right here is my favorite thing about BW. I used this to encourage the players to work with me during the game. The tone of the book encourages this type of play (at least how I read it). Players offer up ideas. I offer up ideas. Some of each get in and it's leading to some enjoyable gaming. Push this idea of co-ownership, you might be in for a wonderful shock if they take you up on it.

luke
08-24-2004, 08:19 PM
The tone of the book encourages this type of play (at least how I read it). Players offer up ideas. I offer up ideas. Some of each get in and it's leading to some enjoyable gaming. Push this idea of co-ownership, you might be in for a wonderful shock if they take you up on it.

Yessssssssssssssss.

Ask anyone who's played in one of my demo games... co-ownership is what it is all about.

-L