jb.teller4
05-21-2008, 02:05 PM
This is my first post. I also haven't run or played BW yet, though I've been reading like crazy to prepare for my first game coming up. I mention that to make it clear that I don't have any practical experience and it's likely there are ramifications of my ideas below that I haven't predicted.
Basically, to match a specific campaign setting, I want to change the sorcery rules. I'm borrowing very heavily from the Spirit-binding rules and I'm trying to stay as close to those as possible, since those have been playtested by others and work.
A couple things I want to lay out now to explain the similarities and differences from the Spirit-Binding rules:
Spirits are not elementals or tied to nature and are not tied to the land particularly. I'm basing them on the "Instrumentalities" from Glen Cook's "Instrumentalities of the Night" series (I highly recommend them). They are more similar to the nastier faerie stories (the type where people are found the next morning dead and drained of blood or are drowned by a beautiful maiden who turns into a hideous monster), and they range up in power to encompass effectively old pagan gods, though generally with an unpleasant bent. They are usually invisible, but some of the more powerful ones can manifest--usually at night, when they are much stronger.
Sorcerers' power comes from their ability to summon, abjure, bind and force spirits into service. Most sorcerers have one or more spirits bound to them that travel around with them. Like in Spirit-Binding, these spirits are almost always invisible and are not noticeable.
If a sorcerer has bound spirits, then they can quickly cast "spells", which are basically the same as the services in spirit-binding, but a little more flexible in being able to, say, create fire out of nothing if they have a fiery spirit bound to them.
Without bound spirits (or if the sorcerer wants to create an effect they don't have a spirit for or else more powerful than any of their spirits can accommodate), they have to find or summon the spirit and then bind it into service before they can use it. I won't cover those rules below, but they will be based on some of the rules in the Summoning chapter.
This is a human-only setting, with no Elves, Dwarves or Orcs. There are a number of "monsters", mostly tied to the spirits as described above
(especially since the lines between mortal and spirit are a little more fluid, like many faery stories--so you can have "spirit-blood" or be "tainted")
There are other things, but those are the important ones.
Okay, now to the system...
The Sorcery skill replaces Spirit-Binding, but this is basically a name change.
Circination is still a skill and works exactly as described in Spirit-Binding.
Bound spirits are rated from +0 to +3 and replace Domains. They have the same cost. Each spirit has one "theme" (I'll probably call it a domain, but don't want to get it confused with Spirit-Binding Domains in this post). That theme will be fairly limited--fire, stone, wind, fear, etc. I'm still working on how narrow to make them.
Only one Bound spirit can be used for any given spell and any spirit can only sustain one effect at a time. So they never stack and any sustained effects mean that spirit can't do anything else unless the effect is ended. However, a sorcerer with five bound spirits could sustain five effects.
Spirit Marks work exactly as described in Spirit-Binding.
Sorcerers must have the Gifted trait to bind spirits and do sorcery. Un-gifted characters can learn and use Sorcery, but they are much more limited (basically only able create minor wards to give some protection from spirits--basically "superstitions" that work--and have a knowledge of the principles of Sorcery).
Base Sorcery has the same effects as Spirit-Binding (except Succor is cut): Reveal, Help, Harm, Hinder and "Like an ox". In addition, there are a very limited number of "mental state" effects (fear, stupor, fascination) that can all be covered with either Help or Hinder or by forcing a Steel check. So "Force a steel check" will be an added effect (I need a better name).
Dice pools are calculated similar to Spirit-Binding. Sorcery + Bound Spirit + Spirit marks. A limited number of skills can be FoRKed in. Immanence is cut, but the general power of the area (which fluctuates significantly from day to night) can add or remove Dice (From -2D to +2D). I know that normally BW adds Obstacle rather than removing Dice, but the number of dice is used in determining the max power of effect a sorcerer can attempt (see below).
Obstacles are determined similar to Spirit-Binding. The Strength of the effect + Need (identical to Spirit-Binding) + Domain/Medium (renamed to "Area of Effect" or "Target" and limited to the caster's line of sight).
Note that I said "Strength of effect" not of the spirit. Effects require the same Strength requirements as listed in Spirit-Binding (e.g. Help = Str 1 to add 1D, Str 5 to add 2D and Str 9 to add 3D). The max Strength of effect a Sorcerer can cast is based on a mix of the spirit they are using and their own Will exponent, rather than just on the power of the spirit they bind.
When casting a spell, the sorcerer determines the effect they want to produce and then they determine the Strength required. The max Strength that a Sorcerer can choose to attempt is equal to their Will +/- the power level of the area + the rank of the applicable Bound Spirit (whether one they carry around with them or one they summoned and bound just for this spell).
Once the Strength is determined, calculate the total Obstacle (including Need, Domain/Medium, etc.).
The sorcerer rolls against the Obstacle to cast the spell.
Sorcery is dangerous--to cast a spell, the sorcerer unbinds the spirit enough to do the effect. Spirits are seldom friendly to humans at the best of times and they despise their sorcerer masters. Not only must the sorcerer bind the spirit to their will in order to force it to perform a service, they must also keep it from wreaking any other havoc or from seeking retribution on the sorcerer directly.
I have two different ideas for handling this and would appreciate suggestions on which to use (or other ideas):
A) If the sorcerer fails their spell, then the spirit wrests enough control away from the sorcerer to strike at them. Depending on the type of spirit and the nature of the attempted spell, the spirit will either directly attack the sorcerer using the Harm effect rules with a Strength equal to the number of successes the sorcerer failed by or else force the sorcerer to make a Steel test as they battle for control. A failed Steel check means the sorcerer must choose Stand and Drool as they struggle against the spirit. Only very rarely is there any danger of the spirit escaping (since the spirit can only act through the sorcerer, if the sorcerer is knocked unconscious or even while locked in Stand and Drool, the spirit is unable to affect the world in any other way.)
If the Sorcerer succeeds, they have to make a Tax test against an Obstacle equal to the Strength of the spell minus the number of successes over the Obstacle they got. failure adds -1D of tax. (NOTE: I don't have the BW books with me while I'm writing this and only vaguely remember the Sorcery tax rules--that may change the above. What I really want is that they roll for Tax and that the difficulty of that roll is lessened by the number of extra successes they got while casting. And if they succeed by enough, they don't even have to roll. So lower Strength spells are both less dangerous and less taxing.
B) Alternately, I'm thinking of saying that if the sorcerer succeeds, they either succeed completely with no side-effects or possibly make a Tax check using the normal sorcery rules. If they fail, they suffer Retribution using the Spirit-Binding rules equal to the number of successes they failed by, but the spell still takes effect. This would mean that whipping out a powerful spell generally allows the sorcerer to have a major impact on others but they'll probably suffer almost as much themselves, while weaker spells leave the sorcerer barely scathed. It makes it much easier to succeed (since the sorcerer can't really fail to cast the spell), Possibly too easy.
I have some other rules around summoning and actually binding spirits, as well as for abjuring and execrating spirits (based on rules from the Summoning chapter of Magic Burner on the site), but I want to focus on this core system first.
I have a couple specific questions and then I also want general criticisms and suggestions.
First, how should I handle the "Force a Steel Check" effect? I'm thinking that it has a base Obstacle of 3 and that it adds +1Ob to the Steel check for every 3 Strength above that (for a max of +2 Ob at Strength 9). However, I really just threw that out as a starting point and it should probably be adjusted.
Second, for determining the consequences of casting a spell, I listed two ideas above. Which is better ("Fail=attacked/Succeed=Taxed" or "Fail=succeed but struggle for control")? Or are both fine and it's a feel/setting question? I'm also very open to completely different ways of handling it. The main thing is that I want failed spells to be dangerous and/or out-of-control, not "fizzle", and I also like the idea of danger to the sorcerer that increases the more powerful the spell is.
Third, it seems like spells will have really high Obstacles. I used Spirit-Binding very closely on setting Obstacles, so I'm assuming it works in play. But are sorcerers just weaker than I expect or will they tend to get more successes than I expect.
Hopefully the above makes sense. I wrote it fairly quickly, so I apologize if it isn't clear.
-John
Basically, to match a specific campaign setting, I want to change the sorcery rules. I'm borrowing very heavily from the Spirit-binding rules and I'm trying to stay as close to those as possible, since those have been playtested by others and work.
A couple things I want to lay out now to explain the similarities and differences from the Spirit-Binding rules:
Spirits are not elementals or tied to nature and are not tied to the land particularly. I'm basing them on the "Instrumentalities" from Glen Cook's "Instrumentalities of the Night" series (I highly recommend them). They are more similar to the nastier faerie stories (the type where people are found the next morning dead and drained of blood or are drowned by a beautiful maiden who turns into a hideous monster), and they range up in power to encompass effectively old pagan gods, though generally with an unpleasant bent. They are usually invisible, but some of the more powerful ones can manifest--usually at night, when they are much stronger.
Sorcerers' power comes from their ability to summon, abjure, bind and force spirits into service. Most sorcerers have one or more spirits bound to them that travel around with them. Like in Spirit-Binding, these spirits are almost always invisible and are not noticeable.
If a sorcerer has bound spirits, then they can quickly cast "spells", which are basically the same as the services in spirit-binding, but a little more flexible in being able to, say, create fire out of nothing if they have a fiery spirit bound to them.
Without bound spirits (or if the sorcerer wants to create an effect they don't have a spirit for or else more powerful than any of their spirits can accommodate), they have to find or summon the spirit and then bind it into service before they can use it. I won't cover those rules below, but they will be based on some of the rules in the Summoning chapter.
This is a human-only setting, with no Elves, Dwarves or Orcs. There are a number of "monsters", mostly tied to the spirits as described above
(especially since the lines between mortal and spirit are a little more fluid, like many faery stories--so you can have "spirit-blood" or be "tainted")
There are other things, but those are the important ones.
Okay, now to the system...
The Sorcery skill replaces Spirit-Binding, but this is basically a name change.
Circination is still a skill and works exactly as described in Spirit-Binding.
Bound spirits are rated from +0 to +3 and replace Domains. They have the same cost. Each spirit has one "theme" (I'll probably call it a domain, but don't want to get it confused with Spirit-Binding Domains in this post). That theme will be fairly limited--fire, stone, wind, fear, etc. I'm still working on how narrow to make them.
Only one Bound spirit can be used for any given spell and any spirit can only sustain one effect at a time. So they never stack and any sustained effects mean that spirit can't do anything else unless the effect is ended. However, a sorcerer with five bound spirits could sustain five effects.
Spirit Marks work exactly as described in Spirit-Binding.
Sorcerers must have the Gifted trait to bind spirits and do sorcery. Un-gifted characters can learn and use Sorcery, but they are much more limited (basically only able create minor wards to give some protection from spirits--basically "superstitions" that work--and have a knowledge of the principles of Sorcery).
Base Sorcery has the same effects as Spirit-Binding (except Succor is cut): Reveal, Help, Harm, Hinder and "Like an ox". In addition, there are a very limited number of "mental state" effects (fear, stupor, fascination) that can all be covered with either Help or Hinder or by forcing a Steel check. So "Force a steel check" will be an added effect (I need a better name).
Dice pools are calculated similar to Spirit-Binding. Sorcery + Bound Spirit + Spirit marks. A limited number of skills can be FoRKed in. Immanence is cut, but the general power of the area (which fluctuates significantly from day to night) can add or remove Dice (From -2D to +2D). I know that normally BW adds Obstacle rather than removing Dice, but the number of dice is used in determining the max power of effect a sorcerer can attempt (see below).
Obstacles are determined similar to Spirit-Binding. The Strength of the effect + Need (identical to Spirit-Binding) + Domain/Medium (renamed to "Area of Effect" or "Target" and limited to the caster's line of sight).
Note that I said "Strength of effect" not of the spirit. Effects require the same Strength requirements as listed in Spirit-Binding (e.g. Help = Str 1 to add 1D, Str 5 to add 2D and Str 9 to add 3D). The max Strength of effect a Sorcerer can cast is based on a mix of the spirit they are using and their own Will exponent, rather than just on the power of the spirit they bind.
When casting a spell, the sorcerer determines the effect they want to produce and then they determine the Strength required. The max Strength that a Sorcerer can choose to attempt is equal to their Will +/- the power level of the area + the rank of the applicable Bound Spirit (whether one they carry around with them or one they summoned and bound just for this spell).
Once the Strength is determined, calculate the total Obstacle (including Need, Domain/Medium, etc.).
The sorcerer rolls against the Obstacle to cast the spell.
Sorcery is dangerous--to cast a spell, the sorcerer unbinds the spirit enough to do the effect. Spirits are seldom friendly to humans at the best of times and they despise their sorcerer masters. Not only must the sorcerer bind the spirit to their will in order to force it to perform a service, they must also keep it from wreaking any other havoc or from seeking retribution on the sorcerer directly.
I have two different ideas for handling this and would appreciate suggestions on which to use (or other ideas):
A) If the sorcerer fails their spell, then the spirit wrests enough control away from the sorcerer to strike at them. Depending on the type of spirit and the nature of the attempted spell, the spirit will either directly attack the sorcerer using the Harm effect rules with a Strength equal to the number of successes the sorcerer failed by or else force the sorcerer to make a Steel test as they battle for control. A failed Steel check means the sorcerer must choose Stand and Drool as they struggle against the spirit. Only very rarely is there any danger of the spirit escaping (since the spirit can only act through the sorcerer, if the sorcerer is knocked unconscious or even while locked in Stand and Drool, the spirit is unable to affect the world in any other way.)
If the Sorcerer succeeds, they have to make a Tax test against an Obstacle equal to the Strength of the spell minus the number of successes over the Obstacle they got. failure adds -1D of tax. (NOTE: I don't have the BW books with me while I'm writing this and only vaguely remember the Sorcery tax rules--that may change the above. What I really want is that they roll for Tax and that the difficulty of that roll is lessened by the number of extra successes they got while casting. And if they succeed by enough, they don't even have to roll. So lower Strength spells are both less dangerous and less taxing.
B) Alternately, I'm thinking of saying that if the sorcerer succeeds, they either succeed completely with no side-effects or possibly make a Tax check using the normal sorcery rules. If they fail, they suffer Retribution using the Spirit-Binding rules equal to the number of successes they failed by, but the spell still takes effect. This would mean that whipping out a powerful spell generally allows the sorcerer to have a major impact on others but they'll probably suffer almost as much themselves, while weaker spells leave the sorcerer barely scathed. It makes it much easier to succeed (since the sorcerer can't really fail to cast the spell), Possibly too easy.
I have some other rules around summoning and actually binding spirits, as well as for abjuring and execrating spirits (based on rules from the Summoning chapter of Magic Burner on the site), but I want to focus on this core system first.
I have a couple specific questions and then I also want general criticisms and suggestions.
First, how should I handle the "Force a Steel Check" effect? I'm thinking that it has a base Obstacle of 3 and that it adds +1Ob to the Steel check for every 3 Strength above that (for a max of +2 Ob at Strength 9). However, I really just threw that out as a starting point and it should probably be adjusted.
Second, for determining the consequences of casting a spell, I listed two ideas above. Which is better ("Fail=attacked/Succeed=Taxed" or "Fail=succeed but struggle for control")? Or are both fine and it's a feel/setting question? I'm also very open to completely different ways of handling it. The main thing is that I want failed spells to be dangerous and/or out-of-control, not "fizzle", and I also like the idea of danger to the sorcerer that increases the more powerful the spell is.
Third, it seems like spells will have really high Obstacles. I used Spirit-Binding very closely on setting Obstacles, so I'm assuming it works in play. But are sorcerers just weaker than I expect or will they tend to get more successes than I expect.
Hopefully the above makes sense. I wrote it fairly quickly, so I apologize if it isn't clear.
-John