Circles: What's My Obstacle

[wombleton]

Two opportunities for Circles tests came up last night in our Burning Firefly game, and I think we're shaky on the obstacle for them:

Situation the first: We open the door of the casino owner's office after lifting the cash. We're staring down fifteen guards covering us. What's the obstacle to have an accomplice in the guards?

Situation the second: After escaping the casino, we have to go back again to get the McGuffin we failed to get the first time. (Curse you Repair-wise!) What's the obstacle to get a firefighter?

[Berandor]

Two opportunities for Circles tests came up last night in our Burning Firefly game, and I think we're shaky on the obstacle for them:

Situation the first: We open the door of the casino owner's office after lifting the cash. We're staring down fifteen guards covering us. What's the obstacle to have an accomplice in the guards?
My attempt:

Ob 1
Right here +3
Right now +3
(perhaps +1-2 for disposition: not loyal to casino?)

So Ob 7, perhaps up to 9

Situation the second: After escaping the casino, we have to go back again to get the McGuffin we failed to get the first time. (Curse you Repair-wise!) What's the obstacle to get a firefighter?

Ob 1
Occupation +2 (I have no idea what circles you have and how common a firefighter is, so this is a guess)
At least somewhere around +1, maybe +3
at least Soonish +1, maybe +3

So Ob 5-10, I'd say, depending on the urgency of the second visit.

[wombleton]

Occupation +2 (I have no idea what circles you have and how common a firefighter is, so this is a guess)
If it's relevant, the casino was on fire when we left it.

[Berandor]

awesome!

[luke]

Yup. They'd be very high obstacle Circles tests.

[dsellars]

Every time when have tried circles and gone through the list of obstacles it has been insanely high ;-( My players now think it is impossibel to circle soem one up. Must be something I am doing wrong. I can't think of a explict example as they seem to have stopped trying. ;-(

I think alot of it was it ended up being 'now' that they wanted to find them due to the way the pacing was progressing.

[pseudoidiot]

I always have a hard time determining circles obstacles, as well. I've read pretty much all the advice on the boards, and it usually makes sense as I'm reading it, but then the next time I'm looking at circles obstacles, I get all confused again.

I just try to keep in mind that you don't have to apply every single modifier. Just look at the most important aspects of the circles test. That usually helps clear things up a little (the hard part, for me, is deciding what's really relevant and what's not that important in a given Circles test).

[Thor Olavsrud]

"Also, not all of the [Circles] modifiers are applicable all the time. Use only the penalties appropriate to the situation." -- Burning Wheel, p. 114

You really should only apply the modifiers that are immediately applicable to the situation at hand.

Getting an accomplice in the guards when they're facing you down is incredibly difficult:

Base Ob 1
Specific Place, +3 Ob
Specific Disposition, +3 Ob
Specific Time, +3 ObTotal Ob 10.

Finding an accomplice in the guards before you need him is much easier:

Base Ob 1
Specific Disposition, +3 ObTotal Ob 4.

As for the second question. You want a firefighter? I'd say:

Base Ob 1
Specific Occupation, +3 Ob
Somewhere Local, +1 Ob (he needs access to the scene in question)Total Ob 5.

But if you just want someone with access to crime/arson scenes?

Base Ob 1
Somewhere Local, + 1 Ob (access to the scene)Total Ob 2.

Of course, by going with Somewhere Local, you're suggesting that it's a local with access to such scenes, but not one that's necessarily assigned to this one. So someone might come along and challenge his presence, and the group will have some convincing to do. On the other hand, you could increase your Ob by going with a Specific Place (the crime scene). It'll be a higher Ob Circles test, but if you succeed then you won't have to worry about making a Persuasion or Falsehood test later to assure the authorities that you're allowed to be there.

Does that make sense?

[Berandor]

Also: imagine testing circles for an accomplice in the guards – and getting the enmitiy clause! Oh no, JoSaffBridge has posed as a security guard in order to steal the very thing you're after. What now?

[Dwight]

Also: imagine testing circles for an accomplice in the guards – and getting the enmitiy clause! Oh no, JoSaffBridge has posed as a security guard in order to steal the very thing you're after. What now?
That's more along the lines of what I might do. Especially if having the accomplice isn't going to entirely solve their immediate problem anyway.

I would have probably ask, before the roll if I remember to :), "why do you want an accomplice there, what are you planning with him". Not because I want to foil their attempts mind you but because I want to tailor the Enmity. So I can say your accomplice is and that could help you there BUT this is in the way of you getting their help or that is what comes with them helping you. Or maybe the players don't even know straight off what is going to drop out, maybe their accomplice is there and helps them out and then later puts the drop on them to take it all for themselves. Or blackmails them. Or turns out he's an Agent looking to bring you in or to use you as a disposable tool in one of their by byzantine plans.

[wombleton]

Also: imagine testing circles for an accomplice in the guards – and getting the enmitiy clause! Oh no, JoSaffBridge has posed as a security guard in order to steal the very thing you're after. What now?
I think now that I should have just trusted that it would kick us in the pants entertainingly when my B2 Circles failed against the Obs 9 test we had it as, instead of resiling because I couldn't think of anything awesome.

[wombleton]

Does that make sense?
I see where I went wrong actually; I was hung up on the statement rather than the intent. I said lawyerly little in the statement -- an accomplice for Specific Disposition, a fireman for Specific Occupation -- and was hoping to use the Circles to get a foothold and overcome the obstacles (not there in the case of the accomplice, no access in the case of the fireman) by overcoming tests I was more equipped to handle.