Question about The Wheel Itself

[Andy K]

So I was looking through the book again, and I was wondering:

Why does the wheel have that 5th spoke in it? The one that's pointing up and to the left? Broken on the cover, whole on other pics (like the pretty color pic at the top of the forums).

What's the story behind that? Just curious.

[luke]

Hi Andy,

The Wheel was chose as a symbol, and it also kind of chose me (us).

I was reading Primitive Mythology by Joe Campbell back in 94. His comments about the spiral symbol -- the most primitive of mystic symbols -- blew me away. A symbol of the gateway to other side, of death, of the spirit world.

The Wheel is stylized version of that symbol, that gateway.

It is five spoked to represent the unbalance and uncertainty of life itself. Our experiences are not even or symmetrical, the fifth spoke embodies this.

And it burns to purify, to clean, as we pass through its gate.

After I can the revision out, I plan on writing up the Wheel Burner so you too can play with the Wheel in your game. We have it in ours, and it's a farking great artifact to center play around.

There are other Wheel's, too. They'll be described as well.

-L

[Durgil]

I've been a big fan of Joseph Campbell since I saw the interview, The Power of Myth with Bill Moyers on PBS back in the late '80's. I've got the book and have also picked up The Hero with a Thousand Faces.

Excellent books.

[Andy K]

Rock on. Thanks for the reply!

Quick comments and questions:

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After I can the revision out, I plan on writing up the Wheel Burner so you too can play with the Wheel in your game. We have it in ours, and it's a farking great artifact to center play around.
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Buh? I'm not quite wrapping my head around this. Are there more details on this Wheel Burner somewhere on these forums? (I couldn't find any in a basic search of a couple of threads) If not, could you explain this a little further if you have a sec, maybe between writing breaks or somethin'.

I'm thinking here some sort of Myth Generator. Like how to play Burning Wheel in India or other cultures? Is that what the Wheel Burner is? Or something entirely not the above?

-----------
I've been a big fan of Joseph Campbell since I saw the interview, The Power of Myth with Bill Moyers on PBS back in the late '80's. I've got the book and have also picked up The Hero with a Thousand Faces.
------------

Me too- That interview launched me into Indian culture and mythology. I recently picked up the PBS/BBC set of The Mahabharata, which is like being punched in the face with 5,000 years of Capital M Mythology.

BTW, if you like the grandfatherly Joseph Campbell as in the Herro 1K Faces and the Skywalker Ranch Bill Moyers interviews, then you'll love the Young, Strong Warrior Campbell of the 60s. His pre-1980 essays make him look more and more like a literary Klingon warrior who settled down into a "nice old man" role. Check out Myths to Live by, a collection of great essays.

Hey, crap, here it is online! http://jungland-heb.indeep.ru/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=157
From the Impact on Science on Myth, 1961, my favorite Campbell zinger:


When I was in India in the winter of 1954, in conversation with an Indian gentleman of just about my own age, he asked with a certain air of distance, after we had exchanged formalities, "What are you Western scholars now saying about the dating of the Vedas?"

The Vedas, you must know, are the counterparts for the Hindu of the Torah for the Jew. They are his scriptures of the most ancient date and therefore of the highest revelation.

"Well," I answered, "the dating of the Vedas has lately been reduced and is being assigned, I believe, to something like, say, 1500 to 1000B.C. As you probably know," I added, "there have been found in India itself the remains of an earlier civilization than the Vedic."

"Yes," said the Indian gentleman, not testily but firmly, with an air of untroubled assurance, "I know; but as an orthodox Hindu I cannot believe that there is anything in the universe earlier than the Vedas." And he meant that.

"Okay," said I. "Then why did you ask?"

OK, kinda drifting off the topic, but yeah- I love the above exchange, because it shows that below his fatherly boyish exterior is a tiger, a warrior and a snarky cynic. ;)

So, what's the dealie with Wheel Burner? Someone link me?

[luke]

Buh? I'm not quite wrapping my head around this. Are there more details on this Wheel Burner somewhere on these forums? (I couldn't find any in a basic search of a couple of threads) If not, could you explain this a little further if you have a sec, maybe between writing breaks or somethin'.

No links available yet. The Wheel, aside from being a cool logo, is an actual "thing" in our game. (Remember, BW was born from years of actual play -- every single bit of it.)

One of the characters in our long running game actually bears the God Wheel of Fire. He once uncovered an "instructional" text on the thing called "The Burning Wheel." I labelled the first rulebooks with that title just to freak him out. The name stuck.

So in the Wheel Burner I will discuss the nature of incorporating the "physical" Wheel into your game -- its powers, its costs, its cycles, its religions. Basically, a bunch of seeds to jumpstart a game or incorporate into an existing one. The philosophy of the Wheel is harsh, I am dying to see how others weave it into their own stories.

hope that helps,
-L

[Akfu]

Thanks for answering this queston (and thanks to Andy for asking it).

I have long wondered what the inspiration/signifigance of the Burning Wheel was but since no one else seemed to have asked about it here in the forums I just assumed it was in the books somewhere and I missed it.

But now I know, and knowledge is power . . .

[quixoteles]

Argh!, I need/want that really bad. when I picked it up for the first time the wheel struck me. It is a powerful symbol and I and using it as a holy symbol in my game. I wish that I knew about it.

[Melmoth]

I want to know too. If after the Annual and the new edition there will be nothing published until 2006 the wait is going to be loooooooong. :?

[Wuxing]

Argh!, I need/want that really bad. when I picked it up for the first time the wheel struck me. It is a powerful symbol and I and using it as a holy symbol in my game. I wish that I knew about it.

I might humbly suggest you make something up and use it. Pull it out at some unexpected time. "Oh and it looks sort of like THIS!" BAMM cover of the books or the sticker or something else. Instant hook if they like the game at all. Just do something with it. :twisted:

[luke]

I want to know too. If after the Annual and the new edition there will be nothing published until 2006 the wait is going to be loooooooong. :?

Hi Melmoth,

After the Revision, we'll be following the same model as the first year of the Wheel: When we're not actively in production, we regularly release free chapters from future books/material. Plus other strange bits we think of, like the Mount Burner!

-L

[Melmoth]

Oh, feels like I read this somewhere in another thread, maybe in the open letter. My memory is getting worse and I'm still young... :)
Anyway I should have guessed that even there was going to be a break some new material would appear here. Sorry.

[foxandwarlock]

Great. Now you've done it Wuxing.

You've got Raemos convinced that we have to find the Burning Wheel in order to defeat Izrador.

*throws hands up in mock frustration*

[luke]

Great. Now you've done it Wuxing.

You've got Raemos convinced that we have to find the Burning Wheel in order to defeat Izrador.

*throws hands up in mock frustration*

The world is out of balance -- a flame untended rages out of control or gutters and dies. Neither alternative bodes well for the civilized world.

To regain the Wheel offers a spark of hope -- a chance to harness the flame that burns in the brow -- and bring the world back into balance.

Fire is the breath of life.
Fire is the purifier.

-L
:twisted:

[mythusmage]

The tales of Loki are tales of untended hearthfires.

Think about it.