Instinct for effectively starting Inside

[Dwight]

Instinct: Keep your friends close and your enemies closer; When violence erupts always intercede by getting as close as possible to the most dangerous opponent.

Rational is it allows an extra Positioning test before scripting which, via Let It Roll, is really just the initial Positioning test. It is asking for a crapload of trouble. Character this is intended for is NOT that good at combat [yet]. Just foolishly selfless. ;)

Is this more-or-less legal? Gray area? Or right out there? Would requiring the second Positioning test (same Ob as the original?) change your answer?

[Kublai]

Turn it around and see if it sounds right. There's a savage Black Orc that has the instinct "Always start a fight on the Inside." Would your PC think that's fair? The answer is pretty obviously no.

I don't think the instinct would grant a mechanical advantage. However, if played over and over, I think it would allow the PC to be voted for a Trait that might allow for some advantage die when Positioning against the most dangerous opponent.

[gooderguy]

sounds like the player simply wants to be agressive in combat, despite faults

suggest to the player the instinct 'always start in agressive stance' and then they can apply their 2D agressive dice to their first positioning roll (after initial positioning)

won't be too hard for them to get inside then

[Dwight]

I already did turn it around. :) I generally wouldn't have a problem with my character meeting a character/"monster" with the Instinct as I wrote it. I do have a problem with the one you wrote, though. Yours is somewhat more open-ended in the choices. That it is playing towards the character's strength rather than weakness doesn't help. *shrug*

To contrast it I'll reword to use your tone "Single out the badest-ass and have him start on my Inside."

I'm torn about the roll though, it doesn't feel right not to have one. A second Positioning roll flies straight in the face of LiR. I thought about an Observation roll, to anticipate the violence in time. But it's quite possible that an Observation roll was already made. Meh.

[Dwight]

suggest to the player the instinct 'always start in agressive stance' and then they can apply their 2D agressive dice to their first positioning roll (after initial positioning)
I R the 'player'. :p Stance dice is the first possibility I considered. Although that does present some extreme issues with the character involved. EDIT: It also allows a much speedier exit option via Disengage (http://burningwheel.org/forum/showpost.php?p=14055&postcount=1) so it seems less dangerous, noncommittal.

[Thor]

I say boo! to this Instinct. Even with an Initial Positioning roll, you can't start a Fight! on the Inside.

I could see an Instinct like "Always interpose myself bodily when violence erupts" being used to justify giving a helping die in an Initial Positioning test when the Intent is to start Out of Striking Distance or in Lunging Distance.

[Dwight]

I say boo! to this Instinct. Even with an Initial Positioning roll, you can't start a Fight! on the Inside.

I could see an Instinct like "Always interpose myself bodily when violence erupts" being used to justify giving a helping die in an Initial Positioning test when the Intent is to start Out of Striking Distance or in Lunging Distance.
You mean give someone else the helping die? So how does getting in the way come out mechanically? The threat of giving the helping die to a different target urges the opponent's player to Position with my character as an opponent?

[Verrain]

How exactly does your character know which is the most dangerous opponent? How about an instinct that gives you a free pre-combat Foe-wise or Battle-wise check that is linked to your initial positioning roll?

[Dwight]

How exactly does your character know which is the most dangerous opponent? How about an instinct that gives you a free pre-combat Foe-wise or Battle-wise check that is linked to your initial positioning roll?
Hrmm, I like that thinking. Thanks for the step back perspective.

[Thor]

You mean give someone else the helping die? So how does getting in the way come out mechanically? The threat of giving the helping die to a different target urges the opponent's player to Position with my character as an opponent?

You give someone a helping die to help them start a fight out of striking distance or in lunging distance. Whether the person you help wins Initial Positioning or not, the enemy will have positioned against your character and the character you were helping at the same time.

[Thor]

How exactly does your character know which is the most dangerous opponent? How about an instinct that gives you a free pre-combat Foe-wise or Battle-wise check that is linked to your initial positioning roll?

Also a good solution.

[Dwight]

You give someone a helping die to help them start a fight out of striking distance or in lunging distance. Whether the person you help wins Initial Positioning or not, the enemy will have positioned against your character and the character you were helping at the same time.
Ok, if they think it's too dangerous to engage I put myself in the same kettle of fish whether I'm the initial intended target or not. That's getting close to what I initially envisioned. Thanks.

EDIT: Thanks for your feedback too, Kublai and Jonathan.

[Dwight]

Ok, I've got two candidates drafted up. Will sort out which to go with in the group burn.

Instinct: Keep your friends close and your enemies closer; When violence erupts always intercede to protect vulnerable allies.

Mechanic translation: I Help on the Positioning of a character 'on my side' that is intending to initially Position at 'lunging distance' or 'out of striking distance'.

Instinct: Always begin a violent conflict focusing on the most dangerous opponent.

Mechanic translation: Assess opponents with an appropriate Skill to choose the target of the initial Positioning roll.

[pseudoidiot]

I'm pretty partial to the suicidal trait out of the traits list from the Magic Burner. :)

(Which I know isn't really what you're going for, but it's still an awesome trait)