[BW] The Burning March [Archive]

DarthMidget

08-25-2008, 10:08 PM

Introduction

The March is burning. That was what the rumors said. A strange blight had turned the crops to dust, but that was not why the March burned. The March burned with the Fires of Faith. A holy man had come out of the wild. A Prophet, like those of olden days, and a Healer he was said to be. Few knew the truth of it, but rumor spread the fire across the March.

But beyond the March there were other forces at work. Forces of a nature most foul. Men might have been ignorant of its icy tendrils, but Dwarf and Elf were not. The Dwarves withdrew into their mountain holds. The Elves sang a new lament. Were the Last Days upon the Empire? The Emperor would have his answer.

And in his quandry the Emperor turned to the Elves. The First Born knew much which Men did not. Prince Stefan Jagiell was dispatched to the Land of the Elves. The Elves would have answers. Prince Stefan made it as far as the village of Treaty. So named it was thanks to the meetings that Men and Elf often held there. Prince Stefan would go no further. In the dark of night his fate was sealed. The morning found only his lifeless corpse.

As fate would have it the strange new prophet was wandering through Treaty that same evening. So far as anyone knew the man had no ire to hold against Prince Stefan, but the nobles knew a rabble-rouser when they saw one. Likewise present was the Elven Emissary. Of course no suspicion could ever be cast upon him. Could it? In these dark days no answer could be sure.

For centuries after the historians would discuss, at length, how the battle lines were first drawn in the bloody, little town called Treaty....

Burn!Burn!Burn!

Allright, for those of you following at home some gentlemen and I are starting a BW Skype game. We just had character/world burning and it went really well. There won't be any actual gameplay in this thread, but it is here that we will do some more detailed character burning and toss around ideas. If you want to join in the discussion feel free, but lurking is fine by us as well.

To my fellow accomplices, Burn Away!

vikingmonkey

08-25-2008, 11:34 PM

I'm really sad I'm missing this :(

DarthMidget

08-26-2008, 09:38 AM

I'm really sad I'm missing this

Yeah, but at least you're moving out of Oklahoma right? ;)

vikingmonkey

08-26-2008, 10:43 AM

That one small kernel of hope is what has kept me sane these past 6 years

naetuir

08-26-2008, 10:52 AM

It's somewhat difficult to follow the lifepaths and associated leads, based on the type of character I am trying to play..

At some point, I'm going to need to 'break' the leads, to move from orc to human, in my lifepaths. Does anyone have a problem with this? It'll probably be to either some kind of outcast or soldier lifepath, from the orc lifepaths.

(Yes, I know this sounds a bit odd, but a human having been raised by Orcs.. Well, yeah, that's a bit odd in the first place!)

Hirram

08-26-2008, 11:01 AM

From what we discussed, you'd have to break Leads. Seems like Orcs are going to have an asterisk next to them in the campaign, anyway. I'm actually exploring a bunch of different series of Lifepaths for my character, too- there isn't a single path that's screaming out "prophet founding his own religion" to me.

naetuir

08-26-2008, 11:15 AM

True. I guess that was sort of implied. I just wanted to make it explicit, I guess, since I'm so new to the system. :)

You may actually want to work on some kind of lifepath with darth, for 'prophet'. It seems like that would be something fairly important in your recent past. It'd probably be worth it to spend the time setting something like that up..

DarthMidget

08-26-2008, 11:56 AM

Yeah, James, we could always come up with a new lifepath for your 'holyman'. Of course another good resource might be the Burning Wiki.

Hirram

08-26-2008, 01:30 PM

It might not be necessary- a path of Village Born, Acolyte, (Lead to Religious), Priest, Exorcist provides a set of Skills that work pretty well (Suasion, Demonology!, Oratory, etc.), and even Traits (Tonsured and Vested) if you consider that they would essentially provide a 2D Affiliation amongst his own followers. Personally, I think that Summoner-wise and Cultist-wise are more appropriate than Demonology, but if the new faith is springing up in response to the blight and the cults, they all are somewhat appropriate. It also grants Mental points, and I've always viewed Will as the social, charismatic stat that seems to always appear in influential religious leaders. He could actually have a B6 Will, if he took a B3 Perception.

Another possibility is Village Born, Village Peddler, (Lead to Outcast), Cultist, Heretic Priest- a religious conversion occurred to him as he traveled between villages. This opens up a lot of interesting skills, but with it not granting Faithful, it would require all of the Trait points not used for required Traits. It also doesn't grant Mental points, leaving him with 7 Mental points (most likely B3 Perception/B4 Will). It does grant Zealot, though, which is kind of interesting.

The last choice I'm exploring with the default lifepaths is Village Born/Peasant Born, (Lead to Religious), Temple Acolyte, (Lead to Outcast), Cultist, Heretic Priest. This opens up the interesting skills again and gives easy access to the Faithful trait. It's still 2M below the Exorcist path, but it could still get B3 Perception/B5 Will- though his social skills would still open at B2.

Azral

08-26-2008, 01:35 PM

James: seems to me that your prophet character is either an Itinerant Priest (peasant setting), or possibly a Thinker (outcast), Apostate (outcast), Heretical Priest (outcast), or Cultist (outcast, just replace "cult" with "new religion"). Remember you don't have to take all the LP traits/skills -- they just provide some variety in terms of what direction you take the character.

All of those LPs scream "rebel prophet" to me. You can get to all of them through the Temple Acolyte (religious) LP, which gives you Faithful. Or just drop the 5 trait points and buy Faith separately.

EDIT: cross-posted with James.
EDIT2: I was thinking you'd be Born Peasant (which leads to religious setting), but Village works too.

Hirram

08-26-2008, 01:40 PM

Great minds think alike, I guess- your suggestion is pretty much identical to my last one. And as far as "cultist" goes, well, any religion pretty much starts out as a cult, so I agree entirely with your post.

Hirram

08-26-2008, 01:53 PM

Either one. The only real difference besides flavor (which is important) is 2 years on the LP, but it doesn't change age categories. I think Peasant Born is probably better.

Azral

08-26-2008, 02:03 PM

At some point, I'm going to need to 'break' the leads, to move from orc to human, in my lifepaths. Does anyone have a problem with this? It'll probably be to either some kind of outcast or soldier lifepath, from the orc lifepaths.

(Yes, I know this sounds a bit odd, but a human having been raised by Orcs.. Well, yeah, that's a bit odd in the first place!)

You could also take the orc lifepath as your last lifepath, and say that your co-optation/indoctrination by the Dark was the most recent phase of your life.

But if you do lead back to humans, I'd say it just has to obey rules for prerequisites. Though, as a member of a secret evil death cult, I would think you'd be in the outcast setting. ;)

BTW, how are we pricing out Hatred for him? My thinking would be this: he must take a LP trait from the list of "Hatred Traits." And then you calculate his starting Hate as you would for any orc.

Azral

08-26-2008, 02:23 PM

Also, I like the write-up DarthMidget put up in the "Playing BW" area. My one quibble is the idea that the Elves are treaty-bound to help the Mannish Empire. Maybe I'm just not sure where you're going with that.

My alternative suggestion would be that the Elves have a treaty of friendship with the March. (Leave the terms vague for now.) So the Mannish Empire and the Elven Etharchy were meeting to discuss what to do about the blight and the chaos that is beginning to surface in this backwater principality; basically, two Great Powers having a summit to negotiate over the fate of a minor (but strategically important) territory.

Now that Archduke Ferdinand (oops, I mean Crown Prince Stefan) has been assassinated, it'll be all we can do to prevent this from turning into Sarajevo 1914. :)

That also gives the Elves a more direct stake in the fate of the March, as well as some potential conflict with the government of the Empire, the government of the March, as well as those who would consider overthrowing them.

Beast In The Garden

08-26-2008, 03:21 PM

Woah, sounds like a fun game. Wish I could be involved.

what are the characters?

DarthMidget

08-26-2008, 03:23 PM

James, it looks like the prophet is coming together. I think any of those lifepath routes look good. I also agree that a high will and a relatively low perception would seem to typify the rabble-rousing holyman. Though you don't have to play to stereotype, it's always fun!

BTW, how are we pricing out Hatred for him? My thinking would be this: he must take a LP trait from the list of "Hatred Traits." And then you calculate his starting Hate as you would for any orc.

That sounds pretty good to me. Chris, are there any LP Hatred Traits (p 212) that you were thinking about taking?

My one quibble is the idea that the Elves are treaty-bound to help the Mannish Empire. Maybe I'm just not sure where you're going with that.

Here's my thinking: one of your characters Beliefs is to basically prevent the Elves from getting sucked into Men's mess, right? Well, as the Elven Kingdom is right now there is really no way that they would get sucked in. What I was thinking is that a long time ago (1000 yrs or so....) the Men and Elves formed an alliance (typical...) to fight the Power in the North. The Men have pretty much forgotten about the alliance and the ancient war, but the Elves have not. Though the Elves realize that, logically, the treaty really doesn't apply anymore they still feel some sort of honorbound obligation to not completetly go isolationist. At least some of them do. Also, the Men of the Empire don't fully understand what the treaty obligates the Elves to do as their only sources for the treaty are copies of copies of copies that were burned and then rerecorded from memory. So there is ALOT of leeway into what is really what. How's that work for you?

My alternative suggestion would be that the Elves have a treaty of friendship with the March. (Leave the terms vague for now.) So the Mannish Empire and the Elven Etharchy were meeting to discuss what to do about the blight and the chaos that is beginning to surface in this backwater principality; basically, two Great Powers having a summit to negotiate over the fate of a minor (but strategically important) territory.

Now that Archduke Ferdinand (oops, I mean Crown Prince Stefan) has been assassinated, it'll be all we can do to prevent this from turning into Sarajevo 1914.

That also gives the Elves a more direct stake in the fate of the March, as well as some potential conflict with the government of the Empire, the government of the March, as well as those who would consider overthrowing them.

Hmm. That's interesting. I think we could work that into my idea to make the politics really convoluted and open to interpretation. That way there is plenty of territory for the various diplomats to wrangle over. How does that sound?

PS - I really like the idea of the Elves having some sort of separate treaty just with the Kingdom of the March.

DarthMidget

08-26-2008, 03:30 PM

what are the characters?

They're still burning, but they're pretty well fleshed out. We have:

1. An Elven swordsinger exiled for political reasons by a deceitful Lord Protector. The Elf is seeking some way to redeem himself, but also wants to help the downtrodden people of the March. As such he has attached himself to the entourage of the 'new-religion-guy'.

2. The 'new-religion-guy' is one of the few Men in the Empire that can use Faith. And he has only recently had his religious epiphany. His main goal, right now, is to help the people of the March and to spread the word of his new god(s).

3. Then there is a bad-guy-turned-good-guy. This requires a little more info. The Orcs in our setting are not 100% Tolkien-knock-offs. We changed a few things here and there. Basically, the Orcs were once Men instead of Elves. They worship the Unholy Powers(TM), and engage in horrific acts. Now the thing is that few people know about the Orcs. There are even some Orcs who can pass as Men (some are less twisted than others) that have begun Death Cults in the Empire. The bad-guy-turned-good-guy was one of those recruited into a Death Cult. He was trained as an assassin and then sent to murder the 'new-religion-guy'. A crisis of faith occured and now the former assassin follows the propeht as his bodyguard.

4. And finally the Elven Emissary. This Elf has been sent by the Etharch to entreat with the Empire over the recent problems in the March. The Elf also knows the Exiled Sword-Singer as the Sword-Singer is married to the Emissary's sister! Ah yes, que the plot thickening. Like gravy.

Azral

08-26-2008, 04:14 PM

Here's my thinking: one of your characters Beliefs is to basically prevent the Elves from getting sucked into Men's mess, right? Well, as the Elven Kingdom is right now there is really no way that they would get sucked in. What I was thinking is that a long time ago (1000 yrs or so....) the Men and Elves formed an alliance (typical...) to fight the Power in the North. The Men have pretty much forgotten about the alliance and the ancient war, but the Elves have not. Though the Elves realize that, logically, the treaty really doesn't apply anymore they still feel some sort of honorbound obligation to not completetly go isolationist. At least some of them do. Also, the Men of the Empire don't fully understand what the treaty obligates the Elves to do as their only sources for the treaty are copies of copies of copies that were burned and then rerecorded from memory. So there is ALOT of leeway into what is really what. How's that work for you?

It's a bit "Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings," which isn't necessarily a bad thing. :p An old expired alliance might be interesting, making it a matter of ethics and politics rather than law. Maybe I'm just choking on the idea of a written treaty between the two races....

I think this really boils down to "What kind of relationship has the Etharchy had with the Empire?" That's a question probably better answered after we've fleshed out all the beliefs (especially we Elves:)); I'm still hammering out my character concept and my beliefs are still in flux, so let's leave this question open for now. It might even be something to be answered in-game.

DarthMidget

08-26-2008, 04:26 PM

Sounds good. I definitely don't think of it as a written treaty. Of course it might once have been written, but such records have long since been lost. It's not like the Elves kept a record of it anyway....

naetuir

08-26-2008, 07:35 PM

I am most assuredly not to the point of traits yet, though I may be yet tonight.. Who knows.

Anyways, the character can be viewed here, as I am working on him:

http://www.bluesiren.net/rpg/chris/wiki/index.php?title=Blackheart_of_the_Frozen_North

I am very open to any suggestions that anyone might have. This being my first burn that I'm going to play.

The lifepaths I'm looking at right now look like this (including the explanation in the shift in his training, directly from the wiki ATM):

Born Great (10 Years), 5 Resources, 3 Skills: General, Orc Common Traits.
The Rites (3 Years), 3 Resources, +1M +1P, 5 Skills (Intimidation, Brawling, Torture, Sprinting), 1 Trait (Life is Death)
Black Hunter (5 Years), 5 Resources, +1P, 6 Skills (Bow, Hunting. Field Dressing, Stealthy), No Traits --- Lead Required

A major change in Blackheart's training was executed on his 18th Birthday. He began training for missions in to the land of the blood bags ( :cool: ). His training was carried out by humans in and near the borderlands through the... negotiations of his benefactors. He returned once each year to showcase his growing skills to his masters in the frozen north.

Strider (5 Years), 6 Resources, +1P, 9 Skills (Forest-wise, Orienteering, Foraging, Tracking, Firebuilding, Riding, Stealthy, Approp Weapons), 2 Traits (Loner) --- Lead Required

Let me know what you guys think...

naetuir

08-26-2008, 08:05 PM

That sounds pretty good to me. Chris, are there any LP Hatred Traits (p 212) that you were thinking about taking?

Probably. In fact, I'm pretty sure on "Life is Death" (which would have been instilled in him at an extremely early age).. and I'm still considering either Silent Hatred or Intense Hatred. Not sure which yet (if either).

DarthMidget

08-26-2008, 09:16 PM

I am very open to any suggestions that anyone might have.

Wow. I really like the way he's turning out. I checked "Blackheart's Hatred". Really nice. Nothing like have an almost fully psychotic murderous religious zealot in the group!

But as far as being 'turned into a real orc' goes I would say that since Blackheart wouldn't be able to do that. Since the Cults wanted to use him as an assassin in the Empire of Men it would be important for Blackheart to be able to pass as human. The 'true Orcs' are corrupted as much as one would expect. So Blackheart (it seems to me) would have been kept on the periphery so as to insure that he would be able to complete his purpose. Does that make sense?

naetuir

08-26-2008, 09:21 PM

Wow. I really like the way he's turning out. I checked "Blackheart's Hatred". Really nice. Nothing like have an almost fully psychotic murderous religious zealot in the group!

But as far as being 'turned into a real orc' goes I would say that since Blackheart wouldn't be able to do that. Since the Cults wanted to use him as an assassin in the Empire of Men it would be important for Blackheart to be able to pass as human. The 'true Orcs' are corrupted as much as one would expect. So Blackheart (it seems to me) would have been kept on the periphery so as to insure that he would be able to complete his purpose. Does that make sense?

Exactly what I was thinking. I'm actually still working through things.. kind of trying to purpose him exactly as is.

(the reason that was even included is because the Man-Orc's have to be created somehow.. there may be some kind of blood-ritual that can be done to bring a current human into 'orcdom' as it were, because our Orc's were human, rather than elven)

...and yes, nothing quite like having a potentially psychotic murderous ex-assassin in the group. ;) ...

Hirram

08-26-2008, 09:45 PM

...and yes, nothing quite like having a potentially psychotic murderous ex-assassin in the group. ;) ...

... and, of course, a built-in conflict, since my character will have every intention of saving his soul ... and demonstrating the power of his God.

DarrenMantle

08-26-2008, 09:55 PM

Well, to provide some contrast against the awesomely tormented and twisted near-orc, I'll provide my character burn for my awesomely tormented and pretty elf swordmaster. Review and discuss... particularly as he relates to the elven emissary and how his Beliefs and Instincts look.

Concept: Falsely accused exiled swordsinger

Character Name: Talwyn

Born a Wilder elf and living as a huntsman, Talwyn fell in love with and married an elf of the Etharch. Her brother would become the emissary to the human lands in later days, and her childhood friend would nurse an obsession with her. This friend became Talwyn's Captain when he joined the Protectors as a Swordsinger and framed Talwyn for an as-of-yet undecided crime leading to his forced Exile to the human empire with only his weapon and armor as company.

Lifepaths: Born Wilder, Huntsman, Spouse, Sword Singer - I'm pretty much set on these.

Age: 342 (with the doubled Elven ages we discussed in the first session for color)

Stats: Pe: B5 Wi: B6 Ag: B6 Sp: B5 Po: B4 Fo: B4

Attributes: Re: B5 Ste: B6 He: B7 MW: B10 Hesitation: 4 Grief: B6
Resources: B0

PTGS: Su: B3 Li: B5 Mi: B7 Se: B8 Tr: B9 Mo: B10

Skills: Sing B3, Call of the Wyld B2, Song of Soothing B3, Sword G5, Lament of the Westering Sun B4, Oratory B3, Bow B3, Tracking B3, Brawling B3, Observation B3, Rhyme of Rules B3, Song of the Sword B4

Gear: A question here. The imagery that formed the seed for this character was of the Swordmasters of Hoeth from Warhammer, and I really like the idea of having a two-handed Elven Great Sword as his weapon but there's no stats for such a weapon in the book. Would anyone mind if I used the stats for the "Sweet Axe" and just called it a two-handed Greatsword instead of an axe? Assuming that works....

Elven Shoes, Elven Plated Leather, Travelling Gear, Elven Great Sword "Argentflame".

Affiliations: None

Reputations: 1D Infamous among elves - Exile

Relationships: O Captain, My Captain (Hostile relationship with my former Captain), My estranged wife (Romantic relationship)

Traits: Elven Common Traits, Sword of the White Towers, Exile. I paid for the Exile trait as it's pretty key to the character's situation.... and it should provide plenty of chances for conflict and Artha. Much as it hurt not to take Booming Voice or something. :)

Beliefs:
-Honor is Life, I must convince my brother-in-law that I am innocent of the lies my Captain has exiled my with.
-The Cults are the vanguard of the North, I will bring the assassin of the Prince to justice.
-Unity is Strength, I will show the common folk that by coming together they can resist the Plague.

Instincts:
-Always keep my blade Argentflame in arms reach (Simple here, unless stated I'm always within drawing distance of my weapon)
-If the Prophet is threatened get between him and danger. (This one's mostly to give Talwyn a positioning roll to confront anyone who is threatening the Prophet, and potentially cause some awkward social situations)
-Never trust a Dwarf. (Greedy little bastards. I was thinking this might give Talwyn a +1 to his Body of Argument in any Duel of Wits against a Dwarf.)

That's pretty much the character I'd like to play. Anything that's a glaring problem, or other ways people would be interested in tying in to him?

Oh, and what kind of Artha are we looking to start with? I like the 1/Lifepath option presented in the Brown Book but I don't mind going with less if people prefer.

DarrenMantle

08-26-2008, 09:58 PM

... and, of course, a built-in conflict, since my character will have every intention of saving his soul ... and demonstrating the power of his God.

Conflict galore. I'm figuring the elves know a little more about the corruptive nature of the North, so there'll be some inclination to really mistrust someone who originally was raised by that culture on my elf's part if(when) he finds that out.

Azral

08-26-2008, 10:11 PM

Cool and interesting stuff so far. I do see a couple of problems with Chris' character, though.

1. You're burning an orc who has taken a human lifepath, rather than a human who has been co-opted by orcs. So you should be using the orc stat pools, not the human ones. Orc LPs grant more stat points than human ones do, because orcs have much lower starting stat pools. This also means you should be using the orc resources table.

2. It's usually not recommended to mix orcs with other races in a party. I've never done it myself, so I have no opinion on it, but I just want to throw out a cautionary note. Making him human with a little bit of orc-ness is one thing (ie a human with one orc lifepath); making him basically a full-on orc who works for humans is something else.

3. A general note of caution: As a first-time game, I wouldn't go too crazy with modifications to the basic character burning rules. The one-lifepath-from-a-different-stock thing is cool, but I really recommend leaving everything else as is (prerequisites, trait rules, etc).

Not intending to be cold water, just some things to think about....

naetuir

08-26-2008, 10:31 PM

1. You're burning an orc who has taken a human lifepath, rather than a human who has been co-opted by orcs. So you should be using the orc stat pools, not the human ones. Orc LPs grant more stat points than human ones do, because orcs have much lower starting stat pools. This also means you should be using the orc resources table.

The character stock is Human. Not an Orc. The lifepaths in this case need to be somewhat co-opted, as he wouldn't have had the option to be raised in a 'peasant' or even 'outcast' setting. He was raised by the death cults, and the orcs. It's easier than us creating our own death cult lifepaths, if I use what I can from the Orcs.

2. It's usually not recommended to mix orcs with other races in a party. I've never done it myself, so I have no opinion on it, but I just want to throw out a cautionary note. Making him human with a little bit of orc-ness is one thing (ie a human with one orc lifepath); making him basically a full-on orc who works for humans is something else.

There isn't an orc in the party. Problem solved. :)

3. A general note of caution: As a first-time game, I wouldn't go too crazy with modifications to the basic character burning rules. The one-lifepath-from-a-different-stock thing is cool, but I really recommend leaving everything else as is (prerequisites, trait rules, etc).

Not intending to be cold water, just some things to think about....

This is the whole reason I used orc lifepaths, rather than making custom ones. I'm trying to keep it somewhat balanced. Think of the character as a half-orc. A human with eyes that are nearly glowering with hatred. His body scarred by the torturous orc's and cultists as they corrupted him towards their ends.

It's not cold water. But the concept requires a bit more customization than some of the others in the party, and since I really didn't care to try my hand at completely creating my own lifepaths, I used orc ones (as we discussed last night) to fill in the blanks. If you would prefer, I can name the lifepaths differently? Change out a couple items?

Kyle? What do you think? I really don't see anything unbalancing happening. In fact, if anything, I see this character as nearly binding his own hands. Because as the campaign progresses, he is going to loath the use of his hatred to a greater degree. Much of his 'dark' past will need to be bound away while he is progressing towards the "good" that James' character will bring to him.

Azral

08-26-2008, 10:37 PM

Gear: A question here. The imagery that formed the seed for this character was of the Swordmasters of Hoeth from Warhammer, and I really like the idea of having a two-handed Elven Great Sword as his weapon but there's no stats for such a weapon in the book. Would anyone mind if I used the stats for the "Sweet Axe" and just called it a two-handed Greatsword instead of an axe? Assuming that works....

I'm pretty sure there was a thread a while back about two-handed swords. Usually, using two hands gives you +1 power. So your two-handed elf sword would be Pow 2, VA 1, Slow, Long.
(To paraphrase someone else on the boards, a sword that cuts through armor like an halberd is called a "magic weapon" in BW. That said, we could definitely talk about pricing up a magical elven sword as per the Antiphon Union rules!)

Elves don't usually get axes and polearms and maces, mainly for game balance reasons. Elves are already ripped, and a VA 2 weapon + Song of the Sword = CHEATING! :) Well, that, and barbaric weapons like that just aren't civilized. :p

If the sword was going to be VA 2, I'd make it Unwieldy.

DarrenMantle

08-26-2008, 10:45 PM

I'm pretty sure there was a thread a while back about two-handed swords. Usually, using two hands gives you +1 power. So your two-handed elf sword would be Pow 2, VA 1, Slow, Long.
(To paraphrase someone else on the boards, a sword that cuts through armor like an halberd is called a "magic weapon" in BW. That said, we could definitely talk about pricing up a magical elven sword as per the Antiphon Union rules!)

Elves don't usually get axes and polearms and maces, mainly for game balance reasons. Elves are already ripped, and a VA 2 weapon + Song of the Sword = CHEATING! :) Well, that, and barbaric weapons like that just aren't civilized. :p

If the sword was going to be VA 2, I'd make it Unwieldy.

Hmm... I guess I can see the argument there, it just feels like +1 Power isn't quite equal to giving up the ability to use a shield, and I figured a blade four feet long and a hand wide should go through armor as well as an axe. Still, other than the VA addition I guess I don't see anything else that would make sense to modify. And my elf certainly doesn't have the resource points to pay for magical equipment. If keeping the sword at VA1 is preferred in the interests of game balance, I'll go with it. I just worry about not having a way to hurt anything with chainmail or up.

Azral

08-26-2008, 10:57 PM

The character stock is Human. Not an Orc. The lifepaths in this case need to be somewhat co-opted, as he wouldn't have had the option to be raised in a 'peasant' or even 'outcast' setting. He was raised by the death cults, and the orcs. It's easier than us creating our own death cult lifepaths, if I use what I can from the Orcs.

OK, I misunderstood your concept a bit. So you're saying that the human death cults are basically orcs, but without all the orc common traits (just the Hatred). I was thinking that orcs were a separate thing, dark power behind the death cults. But the idea of humans who have a brutal "orcish" society is very cool. :cool:

I do think you should use the orc resources, since that's part of the brutal society.

Hirram

08-26-2008, 10:58 PM

DarrenMantle

08-26-2008, 11:04 PM

Yeah, that's all true. And I'd thought better of what I was saying anyway. So ignore all the passive-aggressive crap in my last post. ;) I'll add the +1 power to the sword stat line for my equipment.

Azral

08-26-2008, 11:06 PM

There are still a few ways you can hurt heavily-armored opponents:

wear down their armor.
Great Strike, and take the increase to VA.
Lock them up. Once they're fully locked, they're at your mercy.
the Crushing Edge blessing from Song of the Sword (+1 VA).

Sing the Crushing Edge blessing and Great Strike, and you're at +2 VA- 3 VA total.

Yup! And no matter what, a chainmail breastplate is tough to get through without a great mace or a polearm beak. Until you start wearing down his armor dice, that is.

If it's a really big, heavy sword (a hand wide, as you say), I could see VA 2, but I'd make it Unwieldy. That would make it more like a true zweihander! That sort of weapon is not how BW elves are written, but whatever floats yer boat. We're playing our vision of elves, not Luke's. :)

Azral

08-26-2008, 11:10 PM

Also, there's an optional maneuver out there on the forum called "half-swording" (which is how zweihanders were often used, I seem to recall reading). It's not official canon, I think, but we usually use it to make swords a little bit cooler and more versatile.

naetuir

08-26-2008, 11:11 PM

OK, I misunderstood your concept a bit. So you're saying that the human death cults are basically orcs, but without all the orc common traits (just the Hatred). I was thinking that orcs were a separate thing, dark power behind the death cults. But the idea of humans who have a brutal "orcish" society is very cool. :cool:

I do think you should use the orc resources, since that's part of the brutal society.

Yuppers. Exactly. I'm basically using the 'brutal orcish feel' (and yeah, definitely their resources too), to fill the character out. It's not an exact science, really, but I think the feeling is comin' real close.

Honestly, I keep thinking of the Reavers from Firefly as the inspiration for the tribal style death cults that I'm coming from - Beyond barbarians, as close to orcs as it gets without actually being such..... Though I'm open to that. Personally, I like the idea that he was basically raised by orcs, and the tribal death cults that would be as near orcs as humans get, without actually being orcs. I have a very "conanesque" feel that I get out of the idea, where the death cults and the orcs mingle to some degree, but the orcs are the "looked upon in awe" class, as it were.

Kind of like elves are, to humans.

Azral

08-26-2008, 11:20 PM

Hehe, never seen Firefly, but now that I get what you're doing, I think it's absolutely rad. I could imagine an entire campaign built around the interplay between a "civilized" human society and a "barbaric" death-cult society! Kind of like the cult in "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom." (Most. Racist. Movie. Ever!)

And don't worry- soon I'll put up my stuff for peeps to tear apart. :)

Hirram

08-27-2008, 05:00 AM

Yuppers. Exactly. I'm basically using the 'brutal orcish feel' (and yeah, definitely their resources too), to fill the character out. It's not an exact science, really, but I think the feeling is comin' real close.

Honestly, I keep thinking of the Reavers from Firefly as the inspiration for the tribal style death cults that I'm coming from - Beyond barbarians, as close to orcs as it gets without actually being such..... Though I'm open to that. Personally, I like the idea that he was basically raised by orcs, and the tribal death cults that would be as near orcs as humans get, without actually being orcs. I have a very "conanesque" feel that I get out of the idea, where the death cults and the orcs mingle to some degree, but the orcs are the "looked upon in awe" class, as it were.

Kind of like elves are, to humans.

Reavers is how I explain our orcs to others also.

DarrenMantle

08-27-2008, 06:20 AM

If it's a really big, heavy sword (a hand wide, as you say), I could see VA 2, but I'd make it Unwieldy. That would make it more like a true zweihander! That sort of weapon is not how BW elves are written, but whatever floats yer boat. We're playing our vision of elves, not Luke's. :)

Yeah... I'll just stick with 2-handed, +1 Power, VA1 and Slow. Making it Unwieldy would really hurt.

Moving on to bigger and better things, any issues anyone sees with my Beliefs and/or Instincts?

DarrenMantle

08-27-2008, 06:58 AM

DarthMidget

08-27-2008, 08:17 AM

Beliefs:
-Honor is Life, I must convince my brother-in-law that I am innocent of the lies my Captain has exiled my with.
-The Cults are the vanguard of the North, I will bring the assassin of the Prince to justice.
-Unity is Strength, I will show the common folk that by coming together they can resist the Plague.

These are golden. I look forward to banging them with a hammer.

Instincts:
-Always keep my blade Argentflame in arms reach (Simple here, unless stated I'm always within drawing distance of my weapon)
-If the Prophet is threatened get between him and danger. (This one's mostly to give Talwyn a positioning roll to confront anyone who is threatening the Prophet, and potentially cause some awkward social situations)
-Never trust a Dwarf. (Greedy little bastards. I was thinking this might give Talwyn a +1 to his Body of Argument in any Duel of Wits against a Dwarf.)

See...now I've got to bring in a Dwarf NPC! :D Instincts look fine.

Oh, and what kind of Artha are we looking to start with? I like the 1/Lifepath option presented in the Brown Book but I don't mind going with less if people prefer.

I'm a big fan of the BE 'default' Artha. 3 Fate, 2 Persona, 1 Deeds. We'll do it that way, unless folks can convince me otherwise!

As far as Blackheart goes it looks like you guys worked out some of the confusion here. Also, I concur. The way I see it the Peoples of the North are split into two distinct groups. There are those tribes who have fully given into their Hate. These tribes would have 100% Orc stats. Then there are those that have been kept on the fringes of Orc society specifically for the purposes of being able to infiltrate the Mannish society. These are the tribes that form the Death Cult leadership, assassins, false prophets, etc. The 'half-orcs' wouldn't have all Orc common traits (maybe one or two at most), and would have some Man lifepaths to reflect their movement between societies.

naetuir

08-27-2008, 09:57 AM

I really like the concept of Reavers for the death cult humans and for the "Orcs" in our game as well. How many lifepaths were you planning on staying in the Orc settings before moving to a Human lifepath?

Here is the current burn: http://www.bluesiren.net/rpg/chris/wiki/index.php?title=Blackheart%27s_Burn

The current burn is with three orc paths. I was trying to come up with the "transition timing" based on the LPs years (since he was raised there, completely). Basically, the first thirteen years of his life were spent in "indoctrination," and then his base training (Black Hunter) as an assassin was given by the 'cultists, and then he was given over for further training to a border group (arranged by the 'negotiations' of the cultists), where he learned his final lifepath (Strider).

I am going to go ahead and finalize the burn tonight, I think. I may do a bit during the day, but work is being a bit rough today. :)

(By the way - Kyle, what you said about the death cults is about exactly right for how I have it in my head. Basically, half-orcs. An "interface" to society as it were.....if it can be called that)

DarrenMantle

08-27-2008, 10:07 AM

An "interface" to society as it were.....if it can be called that

And by "Interface" you mean "Terrorize and Slaughter". Your old friends are going to be loads of fun. :D

naetuir

08-27-2008, 10:27 AM

And by "Interface" you mean "Terrorize and Slaughter". Your old friends are going to be loads of fun. :D

It's all a matter of perspective! You call it "terrorize and slaughter," I call it "diversion and acquisition." :cool:

...Well, I did at one point, anyways...

Hirram

08-27-2008, 10:39 AM

Well, I'll post what I have right now:

Concept: A holy man giving birth to a new religion

Character Name: Brand

Background: When his parents named him Brand, they hoped for a warrior, someone who would be able to his lot, and his family, by joining the local lord's retinue, or even the Emperor's. Instead, he became a boy not much inclined to shopkeeping or farming. His uncle, a local but promising priest, managed to have him accepted as an acolyte at a nearby temple.

In time, Brand was accepted as a priest, though the doctrine never truly touched his soul. A chance encounter with a farmer whose crop had been destroyed by the blight brought an epiphany to Brand: there was an Evil in the world, a force unnamed and unacknowledged by the doctrine he had been taught ... and yet, there was a counterbalancing Good.

Armed with this revelation, Brand began to preach this new doctrine to all he met ...

Lifepaths: Village Born, Acolyte, (Lead to Peasant), Itinerant Priest, (Lead to Outcast), Heretic Priest

Age: 32 years

Stats: Pe B3, Wi B6, Ag B3, Sp B4, Po B3, Fo B4

Attributes: Ref B3, Ste B5, He B5, MW B9, Hes 10, Res B1, Cir B3, Faith B6

PTGS: Su B3, Li B5, Mi B6, Se B7, Tr B8, Mo B9

Skills: Doctrine B2, Oratory B5, Heretical Doctrine B3, Bureaucracy B3, Ritual B2, Suasion B5, Candlemaker B2, Apostate-wise B2, Demonology B2, Summoner-wise B2, Cultist-wise B3

Gear: clothes, shoes, traveling gear

Property: none

Affiliations: 1D, leader of a small religious movement

Reputations: 1D, minor reputation as a holy man amongst the peasants of the March; 1D reputation as a troublemaker amongst the upper classes of the March

Relationships: Local Lord (significant, hostile), Uncle, a priest who pulled strings to have him admitted to the clergy (minor, other family, hostile)

Traits: 8: Tonsured, Dusty, Lunatic, Faithful, Rabble-Rouser (Aura of Martyrdom OR Dreamer OR Manhunter)

Beliefs:
1. Ahuramazda is a stern but just god. I shall demonstrate my faith by seeing the murderer of the prince brought to justice.
2. Blackheart is a child of Ahuramazda, no less than anyone else. I shall help him redeem his soul by declaring his allegiance to Ahuramazda.
3. The people of the March have too long suffered in darkness. I shall bring them to the light by spreading word of Ahuramazda.

Instincts:
1. Pray for blessing before any important undertaking.
2. Always have a fire or source of light to pray before.

I obviously still need a third instinct, and I'm playing with all the BIT's right now, as well as skills. Ahuramazda is currently in there as a "placeholder" name for Brand's god.

DarthMidget

08-27-2008, 11:00 AM

Are you going to work anything in about the 'Holy Flame'? Also, we could use Ahuramazda as the name of the deity, or perhaps Ahura or perhaps one or the other simply describes 'the Good' or the Good deities. Or whatever. I'm open to anything on that front.

Also, are you going to convert your 'small group of followers' into a 'gang'? And I mean that in the rules sense not the lawless criminal sense.

Hirram

08-27-2008, 11:12 AM

Are you going to work anything in about the 'Holy Flame'? Also, we could use Ahuramazda as the name of the deity, or perhaps Ahura or perhaps one or the other simply describes 'the Good' or the Good deities. Or whatever. I'm open to anything on that front.

Yes, I'd like to work in the Holy Flame idea- I'm still working on that, but I'm open to any suggestions. Ahura's not a bad name for a diety.

Also, are you going to convert your 'small group of followers' into a 'gang'? And I mean that in the rules sense not the lawless criminal sense.

I thought about converting it into a gang (buying a relationship with the 2nd in command), but I'd need an additional couple of resource points, even if I dropped the relationship with the uncle. I suppose I could drop the relationship with the lord as well, since he has a reputation as a troublemaker and the rabble-rouser trait ... a hostile relationship with the local nobility is likely to develop in-game anyway.

Thoughts?

naetuir

08-27-2008, 11:26 AM

Beliefs:
1. Ahuramazda is a stern but just god. I shall demonstrate my faith by seeing the murderer of the prince brought to justice.
2. Blackheart is a child of Ahuramazda, no less than anyone else. I shall help him redeem his soul by declaring his allegiance to Ahuramazda.
3. The people of the March have too long suffered in darkness. I shall bring them to the light by spreading word of Ahuramazda.

It mildly occurs to me that it could be amusing to have had my character responsible for the death of the prince, with the other characters not being aware of it. Being that he's only recently started to be 'converted,' it's hard for him to not hit the marks that he has been given...

What'ja think? Looking for more intraparty conflict? ;)

DarrenMantle

08-27-2008, 11:55 AM

As excellently twisted as the idea is, I'd prefer for us to have an actual adversary to match up against in this initial situation. It gives us a chance to get a feel for the game and if Blackheart were the assassin I think there'd be a chance of the party eating itself.

naetuir

08-27-2008, 12:34 PM

Fair 'nuff! It was an amusing idea that just hit me. So.. I figured that I'd toss it out. You're right though. The party eating itself probably isn't the best idea. :)

Hirram

08-27-2008, 12:45 PM

at least, not in the first scene.

Several characters: "hmm, we need to find the murderer."
The orcish assassin sheepishly raises his hand
*blink* *blink* "get him!"

" ... so, what do you all want to do for the next campaign?"

DarthMidget

08-27-2008, 02:50 PM

I thought about converting it into a gang (buying a relationship with the 2nd in command), but I'd need an additional couple of resource points, even if I dropped the relationship with the uncle. I suppose I could drop the relationship with the lord as well, since he has a reputation as a troublemaker and the rabble-rouser trait ... a hostile relationship with the local nobility is likely to develop in-game anyway.

Yes, you will soon have a hostile relationship with the nobility.

DarrenMantle

08-28-2008, 07:53 PM

So, having had the Magic Burner in my greedy little hands since yesterday I noticed that there is now a new lifepath setting: Death Cults. Fortuitous indeed. There's some solid potential choices there for Blackheart to look at, and a great setting for NPCs from the cults.

naetuir

08-28-2008, 08:12 PM

Sadly, my copy of the Magic Burner is still in the mail. I only got the order completion notification today in fact. So it's unlikely I'll get it before next week. :(

Hirram

08-28-2008, 08:17 PM

There's a LOT of good stuff in there for the death cults and their masters: Death Cult lifepaths, Death Art, Summoning, Blood Magic ...

DarrenMantle

08-28-2008, 08:44 PM

Yeah, even if it's not used in Blackheart's burn there should be loads of nasty stuff for the PCs to be horrified by. :)

DarthMidget

08-28-2008, 10:34 PM

I'm sure I'll use it. As soon as I get the blasted thing in the mail! :D

naetuir

08-29-2008, 09:55 AM

So, I was thinking. Blackheart may not have hit any marks in this area, but he most certainly has elsewhere. How do you guys feel about my taking a general -5 rps relationship towards his "infamy". It wouldn't be a relationship directly with anyone, but rather with the civilized world.

Or do you guys think there is something else I should take in it's place? I don't want it to be a completely debilitating thing, but I think that should be part of the mechanics for my character, considering his station...

DarrenMantle

08-29-2008, 10:00 AM

Hm. Relationships as I understand them are definitely supposed to be specific people that you want to be of importance for your character, and bypasses the normal Circles roll to contact them. So I don't know that a widespread Relationship is the way to go... just a normal 2D Reputation would make more sense for regional infamy, provide penalties for dealing with normal upstanding folk and give you benefits for Circling up lowlifes.

naetuir

08-29-2008, 10:13 AM

That's how I understood it too, but I didn't think that it was a "positive" trait. Something that should take rps, but rather give them. Then again, I suppose it could potentially be used to drum up a bunch of lowlifes, as you say. Difficult to say. Maybe I'll go with a negative for his previous teachers in the death cults (as if they aren't going to be out for his head anyways), and use those towards the his infamous reputation.

DarthMidget

08-29-2008, 11:10 AM

Something that should take rps, but rather give them.

AFAIK there is not such thing like that in BW. Even 'bad' stuff costs since even bad stuff can be used to get Artha.

What it sounds like you want is an infamous reputation (probably 1D or 2D).

naetuir

08-29-2008, 11:35 AM

Relationships can give you negative RPs. That's about the only thing that I've noticed that can (see CB p25).

My core books are getting quite the workout this week, I can definitely say that. I actually got inspired to work up a little web based toolset for games played over Skype 'cuz of this, too. Started with the die roller, but will move on to more.

(I don't really like much of the stuff that is out there. What I do like tends to be scattered over differing projects.. plus, a lot of them don't take into account persistence, so.. yeah. If any of you want to peek, feel free to ask for the URL. I'll probably let very few people play with it while I'm testing out different functionality, tho.)

Hirram

08-29-2008, 11:41 AM

naetuir

08-29-2008, 11:44 AM

Actually, what you're seeing on p. 25 are negative modifiers for the cost of the relationship (the base cost is on p. 24), not a relationship that gives you rp. According to the CB (p. 24), the minimum cost of a relationship is 1 rp.

*blinks* Reread, and yer absolutely right... Oops. :)

In fact, I read it again, and it's kind of funny how I managed to think of negative RPs. But it does seem a little weird. -2, and then a reference to 10.. Maybe worth posting somewhere that Luke might actually read. Not sure how he could make it much more clear, but... worth thought, I suppose.

DarrenMantle

08-29-2008, 12:03 PM

All this said, I certainly could agree with providing a discount on Infamous Reputations bought at character burning, similar to the discounts on Relationships. Our GM would have to make that call but giving, say, a 25-50% discount on Infamous Reputations seems reasonable.

naetuir

08-29-2008, 01:33 PM

Yeah. The biggest problem I'm running up against is.. RPs are in short supply for me, so I'm having to decide against basic equipment, and relationships, etc. Here's hoping my magic burner gets here before monday so I have time to revamp lifepaths if possible.

DarthMidget

08-29-2008, 02:53 PM

All this said, I certainly could agree with providing a discount on Infamous Reputations bought at character burning, similar to the discounts on Relationships.

Well, at first glance Infamous Reputations seem to be less useful than normal Reputations. I would so they are only marginally less useful. Since the opposite group that you have an Infamous Reputation with you may use the Infamous Reputation as a bonus.

In other words if the nobles hate you then the commoners will like you.

DarrenMantle

08-29-2008, 03:46 PM

Well, at first glance Infamous Reputations seem to be less useful than normal Reputations. I would so they are only marginally less useful. Since the opposite group that you have an Infamous Reputation with you may use the Infamous Reputation as a bonus.

In other words if the nobles hate you then the commoners will like you.

Oh, absolutely. But still, they are less useful than a normal Reputation - with a standard Reputation you get a bonus with certain groups of people and you generally have no additional modifiers. Infamous Reputations very specifically give you a penalty with a group of people while potentially opening up a different group of people. So, while they still can be useful they aren't quite as good, hence my suggestion that they get something of a price break.

Also, I'm trying to make sure Blackheart can afford to be a feared and hated loathsome vile creature. :D

Hirram

08-29-2008, 04:21 PM

I'm not arguing about how rp's should be spent, but I disagree that infamous reps are less useful. In most RPG's, they would be- in fact, they'd be a disadvantage. But in BW, it seems to me that they're just a vehicle for creating situations tailored to your character ... a perfect vehicle for banging on your beliefs and instincts (which are probably related to the reputation).

DarthMidget

08-29-2008, 11:43 PM

But in BW, it seems to me that they're just a vehicle for creating situations tailored to your character ... a perfect vehicle for banging on your beliefs and instincts (which are probably related to the reputation).

Yup. Every element of the game mechanics have to be cast in the light of you kind of want your character to get put in bad spots most of the time.

naetuir

08-30-2008, 10:16 PM

My copy of the Magic Burner arrived today! (much to my surprise) ...and, you know, aside from wanting some of the magic stuff in their to play with, I'll definitely be going with the lifepaths that are listed in there instead.. So I'll try to have the updates done by sometime mid-to-late tomorrow. It'll make my character look less orclike at least. :)

DarthMidget

08-31-2008, 08:49 AM

Sounds good. I got mine too!

Quick question: Everyone mostly done burning their character? If you are make sure to post the finished product here! You have until tomorrow at 7:00 pm and I need to see them before them (ideally) so I can figure out how to hurt you. I mean...increase the gaming potential. :mad:

Hirram

08-31-2008, 09:14 AM

I need to choose one last trait (Aura of Martyrdom or Manhunter or Dreamer- what do you think is best?) and fiddle with the relationships. I'll drop the relationship with the local lord, and add one with the first of my disciples- what would you say would be the base rp for that? Minor? Important? I'm assuming minor, but I don't really know.

Otherwise, I think the character will be pretty much what I've got up here already.

DarthMidget

08-31-2008, 11:33 AM

I like Dream alot, but Aura of Martyrdoom has some great potential. As far as the first disciple he/she would definitly be a minor relationship.

naetuir

08-31-2008, 12:25 PM

I am going to be completely retooling my character today. I may even reaim him slightly, 'cuz of some stuff from the Magic Burner.

So, here are my thoughts.. It would mean a slight retooling of the 'cults, but it would also make them more intelligent and craven.

Perhaps the death cultists, rather than being half-orc types, are full human. But in D&D terms, they're "lawful evil". They may not be half-orcs, but they crave power. The orcs have promised (and delivered!) on some of that power. Maybe that aims towards the return of spirit binding and summoning to the Gifted. Still, "Sorcery" in its proper form is lost. But they've just begun understanding some of the derivative forms (a la Abstraction and Distillation), which I would like Blackheart to have some of. In fact, I would like to have him even be one of the guys that was responsible for regaining the knowledge (because I think I'm going to go with Born Gifted for his base lifepath, perhaps one of the reasons he has been treated so ...'well' in the 'cults). The 'lost books' that were given over from the Orc's to fuel the 'cultists greed, would still be in their hands. But that doesn't mean they have the only stash that is hidden anywhere in the world..

I don't want him to be a book worm type. Not 'only' that, anyways. He will certainly still be an assassin, but with a certain amount of.. supernatural style about him. That hasn't been seen in human lands in ..millenia? I don't think we went over the history of the lands very much.

So, anyone have a problem with that? It would also make for a very good plot hook of redemption if (sometime way down the line) he was able to help bring magic back to the humans.

More than that, it would also make his 'cultist masters extremely worried that he knew some of their secrets. Lend a reason why they might expend a decent amount of resources getting him back and/or coming after him.

I'll probably move forward with the understanding that the idea will be 'okay,' and if we decide to pull it, I can just adjust the LPs as necessary. For now, I'm going to go ahead and rebuild using the death cult setting LPs from the magic burner.

DarrenMantle

08-31-2008, 01:00 PM

I'm pretty sure my character burn posted here is still what I have as the final product for my character. I was toying with dropping the Rhyme of Rules but decided that as I learn more Skill Songs it'll come in more and more handy, and I'll admit I thought about dropping the Exile trait for something more mechanically beneficial, but it fits too perfectly with the concept. And it should be an absolute Fate point factory, what with having a Elf to conflict with in the party. :)

I like all the suggestions about alterations to the Death Cults from the Magic Burner listed above, so no objections here.

DarthMidget

08-31-2008, 02:38 PM

Hey, he's your character if you want to play him like that feel free. The concept still works well with the group we've got going so I don't see any problem.

Hirram

08-31-2008, 04:28 PM

Still need a third Instinct, and I'm not averse to changing some or all of the Beliefs and Instincts.

Concept: A holy man giving birth to a new religion

Character Name: Brand

Background: When his parents named him Brand, they hoped for a warrior, someone who would be able to his lot, and his family, by joining the local lord's retinue, or even the Emperor's. Instead, he became a boy not much inclined to shopkeeping or farming. His uncle, a local but promising priest, managed to have him accepted as an acolyte at a nearby temple.

In time, Brand was accepted as a priest, though the doctrine never truly touched his soul. A chance encounter with a farmer whose crop had been destroyed by the blight brought an epiphany to Brand: there was an Evil in the world, a force unnamed and unacknowledged by the doctrine he had been taught ... and yet, there was a counterbalancing Good.

Armed with this revelation, Brand began to preach this new doctrine to all he met ...

Lifepaths: Village Born, Acolyte, (Lead to Peasant), Itinerant Priest, (Lead to Outcast), Heretic Priest

Age: 32 years

Stats: Pe B3, Wi B6, Ag B3, Sp B4, Po B3, Fo B4

Attributes: Ref B3, Ste B5, He B5, MW B9, Hes 5, Res B1, Cir B3, Faith B6

PTGS: Su B3, Li B5, Mi B6, Se B7, Tr B8, Mo B9

Skills: Doctrine B2, Oratory B5, Heretical Doctrine B3, Bureaucracy B3, Ritual B2, Suasion B5, Candlemaker B2, Apostate-wise B2, Demonology B2, Summoner-wise B2, Cultist-wise B3

Gear: clothes, shoes, traveling gear

Property: none (3 rp)

Affiliations: 1D, leader of a small religious movement

Reputations: 1D, minor reputation as a holy man amongst the peasants of the March; 1D reputation as a troublemaker amongst the upper classes of the March

Relationships: Uncle, a priest who pulled strings to have him admitted to the clergy (minor, other family, hostile); chief disciple (minor)

Traits: Tonsured, Dusty, Lunatic, Faithful, Rabble-Rouser, Aura of Martyrdom

Notes: I'm going to assume that his B1 Resources is basically sympathetic peasants and villagers gladly contributing to his needs, rather than goods owned by Brand himself. He's got good Circles, but they're limited to peasants and villagers and outcasts.

Beliefs:

1. Ahuramazda is a stern but just god. I shall demonstrate my faith by seeing the murderer of the prince brought to justice.
2. Blackheart is a child of Ahuramazda, no less than anyone else. I shall help him redeem his soul by declaring his allegiance to Ahuramazda.
3. I am the servant and prophet of Ahuramazda, solemnly charged with spreading his worship. I will root out the followers of the Dark One ... starting with Retetchko. (1 Persona)

Instincts:

1. Pray for blessing before any important undertaking. (3 Persona)
2. Always have a fire or source of light to pray before.
3. Always preach.

naetuir

08-31-2008, 05:25 PM

Do you still want me to post on here, despite being able to jump over to the wiki page? If you do, just let me know and I'll compress into a post.

He's more or less done, sans background summary.

http://www.bluesiren.net/rpg/chris/wiki/index.php?title=Blackheart_of_the_Frozen_North

DarthMidget

08-31-2008, 09:41 PM

Nah, that's cool. I forgot the wiki was there.

Azral

09-01-2008, 01:18 PM

Hey guys,

I'm going to have to bow out of this one. Have fun, though.

If I may leave you with two pieces of advice:

First, a specific note on artha. 3 fate, 2 persona, and 1 deeds is a LOT of artha; too much in my view. BW flows differently from BE, and my sense is that the starting artha for players in BE is there in large part to help balance against the power of the GM, since BE is a much more competitive game, and because BE is more of a contained format. Also, my sense is that Deeds points have a larger impact on the flow of the game in BW than they do in BE. Read carefully pp 72-73 in the BWR book, then make your decision. I personally would never start PCs with Deeds points, and almost never give NPCs access to Deeds points.

Second, a general admonition to really try to play the rules as written. There's been a fair amount of talk about tweaking and modifying rules, definitions, point costs and such... I would strongly recommend that you play the system "as is" before making adjustments or inventing your own fixes. The various parts of the game system work together in fascinating and beautiful ways, and there are non-obvious effects of some of Luke's rules that are worth experiencing before you impose modifications that change some of these system dynamics.

With that said, good luck with your game! I hope you all have a blast.

Best,
Sean

Hirram

09-01-2008, 02:08 PM

I'm thinking of switching Belief #3 to Belief: This plague is a sign of the End Days; only the Scouring Fire of Ahuramazda can prevent the total destruction of the world. I will preach his doctrine at the next village I come to.

Still need a third Instinct.

Hirram

09-01-2008, 03:16 PM

In terms of religion, I was thinking that the peasantry held rather polytheistic beliefs: lots of smaller gods, and a few larger gods who controlled certain areas (goddess of crops, god of weather, goddess of the hearth, etc.).

As for the new religion, Brand would believe in a two gods: Ahuramazda, a (good) creator god, symbolized by fire as a giver of life and heat and light, and as a creative force; and an as-unnamed dark god ... perhaps symbolized by ice and cold. All of the gods known by the peasants are 'facets' of Ahurzamazda or the Dark God.

Any thoughts? I'm willing to alter or abandon this if someone has a better idea.

DarthMidget

09-01-2008, 05:57 PM

In terms of religion, I was thinking that the peasantry held rather polytheistic beliefs: lots of smaller gods, and a few larger gods who controlled certain areas (goddess of crops, god of weather, goddess of the hearth, etc.).

As for the new religion, Brand would believe in a two gods: Ahuramazda, a (good) creator god, symbolized by fire as a giver of life and heat and light, and as a creative force; and an as-unnamed dark god ... perhaps symbolized by ice and cold. All of the gods known by the peasants are 'facets' of Ahurzamazda or the Dark God.

Sounds good to me. I was thinking along those lines too.

With that said, good luck with your game! I hope you all have a blast.

Thanks! I'm sure we will.

naetuir

09-01-2008, 10:24 PM

By the by, since I am spending time working on Inconspicuous, you'll need to let me know when I get to add my difficult test. It's supposed to take a month to add the test.

I will also be practicing my sorcery skill, inconspicuously ... (snip in post edit)

All of my changes through the session today have been posted to the wiki as well, btw.

** Edit: After rethinking that, I think I'll go for practicing Will instead. I really don't know how he would practice his sorcery. He'll still be studying from his book and making notes while he is learning, but I think practicing will for the difficult test is more appropriate.

As Hirram mentions in his next post, btw, I really enjoyed the session as well. I didn't get quite as much chance to be the 'upright man,' but I think I'm getting to play Black's place pretty well. Though he's not quite as bloodthirsty as the original Blackheart concept, I do like the 'controlled deceit' far better. Just for terms of playability. :)

I also slightly altered one Belief.. But it really wasn't a major alteration, I just made it more accurately represent 'him':

"Knowledge is power" Blackheart pursues knowledge, be it mundane or arcane. He is a spy. An assassin. The pursuit and accumulation of knowledge is first and foremost.

Hirram

09-01-2008, 10:52 PM

Reading through the brown book, I realized that my Oratory and Suasion tests shouldn't have necessarily counted as routine (p. 47). Apparently you use the number of successes the opponent generated as the obstacle ... which is good, since routines won't help advance B5 skills.

Any thoughts as to what the tests might have been? I don't remember, but I'll toss out Difficults for each as an argument (equal successes). I'll accept whatever you think is fair, though.

So far, I've got a Difficult test for Speed and Faith, and Challengings for Steel and Cultist-wise. I had a Routine for Health, but that doesn't count for advancement, and a Challenging for Perception ... but Perception tests only count if they're successful.

I really enjoyed the session- looking forward to the next one!

DarthMidget

09-02-2008, 06:43 AM

Hirram

09-02-2008, 06:54 AM

OK. I don't recall any off-hand either, but I don't remember all of them. I'll keep an eye on it in the future.

DarrenMantle

09-02-2008, 09:55 AM

Wanted to chime in that the game last night was one of the best sessions I've played in years. In the interest of full disclosure the competition isn't very strong, but it was very fun regardless. :D

I've gone ahead and added my Brother-In-Law the elven emmisary as a free third Relationship, assuming that offer stands. I'd like to keep the Belief of convincing him of my innocence and have the chance to resolve that one way or the other in the next session or two.

naetuir

09-02-2008, 10:16 AM

For my own edification, I've been looking up some of the different tests and skills we rolled to see if we were getting them right and whatnot. It seems to me that the Hunting skill would have been the correct skill for taking down a Buck after reading it. It states that a properly skinned and cured Deer can feed a person for weeks (I'm taking that as 2 weeks). Ob3 is "feed 2 people for 1 week" - which is the equivalent. It takes basically a day to use the Hunting skill. So it would have been an Ob3 hunting test that took a day (which we probably could have done at a disadvantage while on the move). Trapping is for small game, or dangerous game, and requires more time. Tracking would also have been a good FoRK for it.

Now.. Here's an item that there really aren't rules for as far as I can tell: How much time per day must be given for Distilling a spell, along with how much time per day must be given to learning new Facets (which is basically the same rules as Distilling). I really doubt more time would need to be spent than an hour or two per day, but maybe we need to rule that no more than 2-3 (both Distillations and Facets combined) can be worked on at once? Or maybe just a # of hours per day needs to be assigned..

I've gone ahead and added my Brother-In-Law the elven emmisary as a free third Relationship, assuming that offer stands. I'd like to keep the Belief of convincing him of my innocence and have the chance to resolve that one way or the other in the next session or two.

This might be a good direction for us to move in after we get finished with the current guy we're going after.

DarrenMantle

09-02-2008, 10:43 AM

naetuir

09-02-2008, 11:03 AM

This is actually exactly what we did... the skill I used was Call of the Wyld, which is the Elven Skill Song that's equivalent to Hunting. I FoRKed in Tracking and Rhyme of Rules and got a helping die from your character. I think the only thing we missed was going against Ob 2 instead of 3, but for the most part I think we got it right.

AAaah!

I couldn't remember what skill we ended up using, because again, I haven't read all the rules for any of the races other than Man. :) That'll do it.

naetuir

09-02-2008, 01:22 PM

I got my answer on the how many distillations/facets/spells can be learned at once, and also on extracting facets:

http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6353

Should be okay with distilling a couple spells at once (assuming time in the game permits). I think practicing Will to go along with that is probably as much as my character can handle in his 'off' time, including trying to do that distillation. So I'll pull the Inconspicuous training.

Hirram

09-05-2008, 07:44 AM

Didn't we used to have a thread in the 'Playing Burning Wheel and Burning Empires' forum? It would be nice for the folks at home to follow along with us!

naetuir

09-05-2008, 09:45 AM

I could have sworn that there was one, too...

Speaking of which, I was thinking I'd make a bullet-list of things that happened from Blackheart's perspective on the wiki, and maybe even make a few 'downtimes' stories, here or there...

Hirram

09-05-2008, 10:02 AM

I think that's awesome. If you make that list on the wiki, the rest of us can add to/edit it as well- the biggest thing that's keeping me from writing up a summary. My memory of the session is necessarily skewed toward Brand's actions.

naetuir

09-05-2008, 01:55 PM

I decided to go ahead and get started.

Here's the campaign's splash page:
http://bluesiren.net/rpg/chris/wiki/index.php?title=Burning_Marches

Feel free to add a section for Brand. You'll have to create a user on the wiki. But other than that, add as you like. Feel free to put your char up on there too if you want.

DarrenMantle

09-05-2008, 02:55 PM

I'll try to get something put up there for Talwyn if I can work out the mysteries of Wiki Sorcery. I've fallen sadly behind the times in my computer geekery.

naetuir

09-05-2008, 03:08 PM

I'll try to get something put up there for Talwyn if I can work out the mysteries of Wiki Sorcery. I've fallen sadly behind the times in my computer geekery.
Regarding the grand mysteries of Wiki Sorcery, I might be able to lend a helping die--er, hand, if you need help. If I'm on Skype feel free to ask if you have questions. :) Otherwise you can leave your questions here and I can answer 'em when I check in.

DarrenMantle

09-05-2008, 03:54 PM

*laughs!* I just read the session highlights from Blackheart's perspective... I am unavoidably reminded of The Very Secret Diaries (http://www.ealasaid.com/misc/vsd/). I'll have to resist the urge to throw in an occasional "Still the prettiest!" from my recap.

naetuir

09-05-2008, 10:58 PM

Hah! I went back and editting a few items on that... Just a few words really. Just to amuse you more. ;)

(Elf? What elf?)

Hirram

09-05-2008, 11:25 PM

I'll try to get something put up there for Talwyn if I can work out the mysteries of Wiki Sorcery. I've fallen sadly behind the times in my computer geekery.

Ooh, linked test!

DarrenMantle

09-08-2008, 07:33 AM

Through the judicious use of copy and paste, Talwyn's character sheet is now on the wiki. I would have put up an in-character recap of the session, but I was too busy hating the Dwarf. Stupid Dwarf.

naetuir

09-08-2008, 09:23 AM

Looks good! I'll probably try to finish my bulletlist of Blackheart's perspective before tonight. I got too excited about Warhammer 40k this weekend. Ended up painting pretty much dawn to dusk each day. Ah well!

DarthMidget

09-08-2008, 11:31 AM

Nice wiki entry! See you guys in a few hours.

Hirram

09-08-2008, 12:36 PM

I put up the start of Brand's perspective on the wiki.

Hirram

09-09-2008, 07:29 AM

As I was fleshing out the description of the first session on the wiki, I decided I wanted to evoke one of the gods of the established religion as one aspect of Ahuramazda, and I kinda got into fleshing out the previous pantheon/aspects of Ahuramazda, based on what's in the MagBu. I'll put what I've got so far up on the wiki today for everyone to peruse/critique/add to/modify/etc.

Hirram

09-09-2008, 08:10 AM

Finished my recap of the 1st session. Added Brand's character sheet to the wiki: http://bluesiren.net/rpg/chris/wiki/index.php?title=Brand%2C_Prophet_of_a_New_God

DarthMidget

09-09-2008, 09:20 AM

Nice addition. Hangatyr? Does that have any historical significance or is that a unique James-creation? :p Either way it certainly fits for Talwyn's 'divine protector'.

Hirram

09-09-2008, 09:33 AM

From the wikipedia article on Tyr, the Norse god of single combat, justice, etc.:

The name Tyr meant "god" (cf. Hangatyr, the "god of the hanged" as one of Odin's names; probably inherited from Tyr in his role as judge).

I'm mostly co-opting and/or altering existing names for deities. I don't want to just grab existing well-known deities (such as Thor, Zeus, etc.), as I think it's jarring, but I want something that might tickle a memory and resonate.

DarthMidget

09-09-2008, 12:40 PM

Cool. That's awesome. I think Chris is going to be fleshing out the North some more. The campaign world is well on its way to living (and I haven't done much! :) Joy!).

Hirram

09-09-2008, 12:49 PM

Yea for player responsibility!

I've put up some thoughts on religious beliefs on the wiki. Beliefs other than the tradition religion of the March and Brand's beliefs are intentionally vague- and might simply be wrong.

BTW, I found this about Fight! with multiple combatants: http://www.burningwheel.org/wiki/index.php?title=Multiple_Combatants. It seems to answer some of our questions about positioning, etc.

EDIT: Ooh, interesting stuff about Helping on positioning tests. Could have been useful against the demon-child last night.

naetuir

09-09-2008, 01:24 PM

Yup!

So, I finished up my first episodes summary. In it, I came up with a few things that are "lore of the north." I posted them on the wiki. While I clearly have not been as thorough as Hirram, I just wanted to start getting some brainstorming put up... Because I don't want to have to keep referring to just 'The North' as a big looming thing, with no names! Particularly since Black would likely be using the names.

( http://bluesiren.net/rpg/chris/wiki/index.php?title=Lore_of_the_North )

Let me know what you guys think, and if any of the details need refining. I'm not saying this is definitive either, just kind of an overview. Like Brand's, some of it could simply be 'wrong'. As the Orcs have a bad (?) tendency to kill any humans that ask about their traditions. The stuff that will be a bit more authoritative (still not definitive) will probably revolve around his learning of sorcery, since that seems to be more of the direction that character is headed.

I'll open up a page for the second session shortly.

Hirram

09-09-2008, 04:34 PM

Looks cool to me. I'm liking the fact that we've got a hand in shaping the world.

If I'd thought about it, I would have had Brand asking around about the murder and/or Retetchko. Even if I didn't find anything, I would have earned one or more Fate for following Beliefs. I guess Brand was preaching during the final scene? We never really touched what he was doing then.

DarthMidget

09-09-2008, 04:55 PM

Well the final scene was late at night so I'd say you were probably sleeping.

Hirram

09-09-2008, 05:44 PM

That makes sense.

naetuir

09-09-2008, 07:41 PM

The map is officially up on the wiki! (Thanks Kyle!)

I was going to say something kind of similar. This feels a bit like world building while roleplaying, actually. Kind of an interesting mix.

DarrenMantle

09-09-2008, 09:49 PM

One of the things I've really enjoyed so far is that the world is largely blurry areas and undefined details. It gives a lot of canvas space for adding details as we go, and offers practically unlimited opportunities for both GM creativity and player authorship in the setting.

Also - scary little devil girl should be a lifepath. Clearly she was more than an ordinary mortal. Yeah, that's the ticket...

naetuir

09-09-2008, 10:50 PM

Also - scary little devil girl should be a lifepath. Clearly she was more than an ordinary mortal. Yeah, that's the ticket...

Complete with the "Stark raving mad" and "babble incoherently" traits?

DarrenMantle

09-10-2008, 07:10 AM

Complete with the "Stark raving mad" and "babble incoherently" traits?

Don't forget "Stronger than Two Grown Men".

Hirram

09-10-2008, 07:31 AM

I would vote her for Driven (Knives): I must slice the prophet into tiny bits ... or perhaps a custom trait that gives her an advantage to positioning tests when maintaining on the inside.

DarthMidget

09-10-2008, 11:04 AM

Hah ha. I think it's hilarious. You guys take down three male assassins easily. Talwyn de-legitates a noble. And the one enemy you have real trouble with is a peasant girl!

New Orc Lifepath: Peasant Girl Berserker

Hirram

09-10-2008, 11:13 AM

I'd change one of my instincts to: "always keep armed men between myself and little girls" ... but it doesn't seem to have helped last time.

naetuir

09-10-2008, 12:58 PM

Hah! I guess we'll just have to try to do less subdueing next time. Considering it all after the fact, I rather doubt that Black would have been really trying to subdue after the first swipe or two. Ah well! Hind sight and all that. :)

We'll just have to make sure we don't let 14 year olf girls lead us through pitch black alleyways in the middle of the night again!

Hirram

09-20-2008, 05:42 PM

What were the human cultural traits again?

DarthMidget

09-21-2008, 03:42 PM

Stubborn, Pious & Proper.

Hirram

09-21-2008, 08:23 PM

We might want to change Stubborn to Strong-Willed or similar. Stubborn is a die trait (affects DoW), and though I'm happy to take it, I don't think the idea was to give humans a die trait.

DarthMidget

09-22-2008, 08:03 AM

Right. Yeah, those were just supposed to be Character traits. So, Strong-Willed probably does make more sense.

Hirram

09-23-2008, 08:06 AM

I was thinking about our conversation after the last session, about Chris' concerns about conversion. I don't want to try to direct the character- Brand will try to convert him, but I won't- but you can be a follower of a religion without having the Faithful trait. In fact, most do. You can believe without having any Traits or Beliefs relating to it, or a character trait such as Devout or Pious. There's also a trait called Believer which lowers Faith obstacles used against them (e.g., Brand could bless him more easily), which might riff well on Black's belief about his own unworthiness, and possibly earn him Artha for Moldbreaker. Even Zealous works.

Again, these are just a few thoughts.

naetuir

09-23-2008, 09:13 AM

That very much would be the path that Black would follow, I think. While I do not picture him as a "Priest" or "Devout," there is no doubt that at some point he will declare himself a follower. He will very likely move past that at some point, perhaps offering his talents to the clergy. After all, his original station in life was basically that. As an "adjunct" for the "dark clergy" of the evil ice god. So I see that as a very logical step in his evolution.

Perhaps it will even work in to the idea of his sorcery at some point. Fire being the basis for many of the things he does right now, I certainly see that continuing.

So, in short, yes. =)

Hirram

09-25-2008, 06:13 AM

I'd like to work a bit on my Beliefs and Instincts- I haven't done a very good job at getting them into play, and I think that's partly due to how they're written. Obviously the Belief about the murderer has to be redone, at any rate. I thought I'd post my thoughts here so everyone could see.

Of my other two Beliefs, I like the one concerning Black, particularly since his player is on board with it. The last, regarding Retechko, is probably good as well- unless both Brand's uncle and an imperial army have started consorting with the Dark One, Retechko still needs exposing.

Beliefs I'm considering:

* I will unite the peasants of the March to repel the blight.
* There are more important things than life- like defending the true god. I will face my uncle and Retetchko. This, obviously, will initially come into play in the next session. It's also designed to play against the other characters' Beliefs and Instincts regarding protecting Brand. Obviously this isn't needed if my current Belief about Retechko is still valid.
* Sorcery is a perversion. I will convince Black to renounce it. This is obviously designed to riff against Black's Belief. It should generate Fate as I annoy Black about it, though I don't ever expect (or intend) to succeed.

I've got more of a problem with Instincts. My instinct about praying before important undertakings is useful, though only if I forget to say so before the action starts- Brand still has to be able to tell there's an important event coming. I have a bigger problem with the one concerning having a fire to pray before, though- it's not mechanically useful in any way, and it's unlikely to earn Artha either. I was considering replacing it with:

* Always trust the peasantry; never the nobility. This should be a great source of Fate. Walking blind into ambushes set by little girls, etc.

Any thoughts?

naetuir

09-25-2008, 09:41 AM

* There are more important things than life- like defending the true god. I will face my uncle and Retetchko. This, obviously, will initially come into play in the next session. It's also designed to play against the other characters' Beliefs and Instincts regarding protecting Brand. Obviously this isn't needed if my current Belief about Retechko is still valid.
* Sorcery is a perversion. I will convince Black to renounce it. This is obviously designed to riff against Black's Belief. It should generate Fate as I annoy Black about it, though I don't ever expect (or intend) to succeed.

The first one sounds like an awesome zealot belief. Maybe if you keep throwing your life on the line we can work that out on the next trait vote?

The latter sounds highly amusing for intra party conflict. It would probably also produce several duels of wits. Very likely while we're on the road. It's certainly not a far jump for him to believe that Sorcery is a perversion, since nobody has seen Sorcery in their lifetime, really! It may take a lot of work on Black's part to start convincing him in that direction. Even if he succeeds or not, that may be a good springing board for him to evolve his second belief ("Sorcery must be seen in the land once more") into a more full blown one ("I will personally see that new magicians are trained in the arts!"). But of course, that's still a long way down the road. :)

* Always trust the peasantry; never the nobility. This should be a great source of Fate. Walking blind into ambushes set by little girls, etc.

Any thoughts?

I don't see this giving you any more of an advantage than the other, really. In a mechanical sense. You still need to spend time "thinking" about this instinct. Though honestly, after sitting here for a bit thinking about it, I'm not really sure what you would replace it with, if not something like "Stay our of arms reach, if in a scuffle." Maybe that could give ya an extra die on positioning tests or something...

DarthMidget

09-25-2008, 10:03 AM

Those look good. Re-examining Beliefs & Instincts and keeping them up to date and refined seems to be a major part of the game as it progresses. I those ideas. They seem to be really about where Brand is right now.

Now as far as the Instinct, "Always trust the peasantry, never the nobles" that sounds more like a Belief to me. It won't really give you an advantage mechanically. Of course I guess Instincts don't necessarily have to give such, but I think that is kind of the point. I'll try to brainstorm today, and post any ideas I have. Maybe I can spark something for you.

Hirram

09-25-2008, 10:14 AM

Yeah, I think you're both right. Instincts are harder for me for some reason- maybe because he's not designed as a combatant. Maybe something like "take a step back when threatened", similar to what Naetuir proposed- perhaps it could give me an extra die to the initial positioning test when I'm going for a longer starting distance.

Aramis

09-25-2008, 10:57 AM

Now as far as the Instinct, "Always trust the peasantry, never the nobles" that sounds more like a Belief to me. It won't really give you an advantage mechanically.

yes it does... no will roll needed to disbelieve what the noble tells you. ;)

And when it causes problems, artha.

DarrenMantle

09-27-2008, 11:38 PM

I'm having some difficulty with redoing a Belief myself, though for slightly different reasons. Basically I want to make sure my Beliefs aren't so tangential to the direction of the other two characters that either they end up dragged along while I go after my beliefs on something they aren't invested in, or that my belief ends up never getting hammered on.

I've already got one belief in regards to the Elven nation - the Cult of Ahriman is a rot at the heart of the Elves which I must cut away - which is at least somewhat related to defending against the North. I think we can work this into the overall fiction without it being too much a diversion just for my sake, and I'm okay with putting it off for a few sessions. But I'm loath to include a second belief related to the elves, and I'm having trouble coming up with one that doesn't.

So far the best I've been able to come up with is "The Elven Nation and the Empire need each other to survive, I must make the humans understand this and try again to forge an alliance." Since the elves seem unlikely to come to the human lands a second time Talwyn can try the other tact - convince the humans to send an emmisary to the lands of the elves. I'll probably go with this one, it presents the challenge of interacting with the Imperial forces in a non-hostile way and could run counter to his belief in Brand's cause - some nice potential for conflict there. This sound okay?

Hirram

09-28-2008, 07:33 AM

I think that sounds pretty good, actually- I suspect that we will continue to come into contact (and conflict) with the nobles of the human empire throughout the game.

DarthMidget

09-28-2008, 11:49 AM

I suspect that we will continue to come into contact (and conflict) with the nobles of the human empire throughout the game.

Good thought.

naetuir

09-29-2008, 12:14 PM

Sounds good by me (re: beliefs).

Another thought about Talwyn wanting to get in to Spirit Binding. That may be something that Black has some familiarity with (only from some of the mystic texts he would have read). Perhaps he knows that the Dwarves, once upon a time, had access to many of those texts, but never had a use for them. Or maybe it's just a hunch he has had all along. That they would have access to some books that would talk about Spirit Binding (and Sorcery- though he may not be quite as forth coming about that particular motiviation). Moreover, if we went there, it could be more multifaceted. With the idea of accessing some of their 'old lore' regarding the blight. If we happened to stumble upon more of the mystic stuff, well, we'd just have to convince them to let us spend some time with the books, ne? Winter -is- approaching, after all. This way, it would wrap more nicely with the campaign, and two of the characters. Maybe Brand would even have a chance to convert some dwarves (with their W10 stubborness).

One of the reasons I figured this might be a good idea as well, stems from the idea that elves tend to work more "with" the spirits, rather than commanding or binding them. If he's serious about working them over, then it might be more likely he'd find his answer outside the elven lands.

What do ya think? Not that I'm not all for going into the elven lands and having more of them turn in to demons on me.. ;)

DarthMidget

09-29-2008, 12:18 PM

That would make sense. It follows that Elves wouldn't be that interested in dominating spirits. Of course the Cult of Ahriman might.

What do ya think? Not that I'm not all for going into the elven lands and having more of them turn in to demons on me..

Uhm...yes?

naetuir

09-29-2008, 01:24 PM

And I had another thought..

I just finished reading the earning Artha section of the brown book, because I was concerned that it would nigh impossible to pull off getting Deeds for us (since Talwyn and I just used ours), and it seems like what we just did might very well be a deeds worthy event.

We stopped a demon from further corrupting the elven nation. This could have easily been used for our advantage, but instead, we allowed it to take it's course and for the elves to return to their forests and consider what they've seen.

That seems an awful lot like 'achieving goals that are bigger than themselves' to me? Another one of the: What do ya'll think? questions. :)

DarrenMantle

09-29-2008, 04:57 PM

Well, I was thinking it would make sense for a race of elves that sees itself as above the concerns of petty mortals most of the time and the favored race of the Earth to be absolutely fine with ordering around ancient nature spirits... after all, who better than the elves to tell spirits what to do?

Now, the woodland born elves might be a little less overt about it, but I totally see the Etharchy and Citadel born elves as exactly the types of people to practice Spirit Binding, and even woodland born elves probably do it, they're just more respectful about providing offerings. Being ancient doesn't make you nice, as evidenced by pretty much every elf we've met. :)

On the other hand, I'm also entirely in favor of finding a reason to go to the Dwarven lands. The potential Artha reaping benefits from my Instinct boggle the mind.

EDIT: I was wondering about Deeds and our last encounter as well. My issue is that I've never really wrapped my head around what constitutes being Deeds-worthy. I could see what we did being enough, though it seems like rooting out the Cult would be more worthy even though it's now one of my Beliefs. Probably it would get me a Persona and Brand and Black a Deeds for the Helping clause. Wheras if I manage to help with some of the issues in the human lands that aren't directly tied to my beliefs, I could earn a Deeds for the same reason.

naetuir

09-29-2008, 05:22 PM

naetuir

09-30-2008, 02:15 PM

So, I've had a little chance to reflect on our most recent session. A few things occurred to me...

We very well may have shot ourselves in the foot when it comes to arranging that treaty with the elves and humans. Considering that the "elf sorcerers in the woods" are probably going to be blamed for having removed the houndguy from "the equation". Not that I think we're going to leave the Imperials in power. After all, we are trying to convert the entire lands to a theocracy... ;) But in the short term, that may end up backfiring on us somewhat. Not that it wasn't a highly amusing scene to play out. Particularly with Talwyn being so conflicted, and Black just saying "do it" basically. ;)

One thing I wanted to ask you all: It comes to my attention that I tend to gloss over the sorcerous stuff that I am doing, because I've gotten very comfortable with the abstractions and distillations section of the Magic Burner. If you guys want me to spend more time describing exactly what I'm doing, in terms of game mechanics (ie: Destroy with Fire, Fire, Destroy, Caster, Presence, Single, making the tent go ablaze), make sure you let me know. I tend to take kind of a "Mage the Ascension" view of that part of the game, because I've gotten decent with it. I can kind of lay down exactly what I want to do, and move past it rapidly. One of the reasons I do that, is that I don't want to take the focus off the scene, and put it squarely on "BIG BOOM".. Anyways, nuff of that. Just let me know.

Another thought that I have. When we manage to head westward, towards the dwarves, I think I'm going to have Black watching for potential apprentices in that area. Particularly -of- the dwarves. Granted, I haven't looked into the fact if dwarves can be "Gifted," (I vaguely recall an only-humans take on that) but I think it would be neat if his first apprentice was one. If the Gifted trait is "only humans," I think I would like to see what you guys think about opening that up to all races. Maybe far less common outside of humans (not that it's even vaguely common amongst humans either), but not unheard of.

Admittedly, I had this thought of some misunderstood dwarf librarian that was always grumpy (in stacks that rival the size of Treaty, under the mountains), leering after Black after he managed to find his way in the stacks to look for "old lore," and noticing his research on sorcery.. and maybe presenting a problem kid that keeps accidentally getting lost in the tunnels because he could -swear- there was minerals in -that- direction.. Etc.

As a side note, I'm moving over the course of the next two weeks. So I may be spotty. I don't think it'll effect my Monday nights though. So I should still be good to go. :)

Hirram

09-30-2008, 03:33 PM

We might have shot ourselves in the foot, but that doesn't mean it won't be fun/exciting to watch the ramifications. Just expect a big "I told you so" from Brand if it turns out that way ... and perhaps a lecture on how sorcery is unholy and destructive, and that Black should abandon it if he truly wishes to redeem his soul. It was a cool scene either way, and it let all three of us expound on our characters a bit.

I don't have any problem with you glossing over the mechanics- that's between you and Kyle, as far as I am concerned. It's the effects that are important from my POV. I also don't personally have a problem with a Gifted dwarf, but remember that they generally don't have access to Sorcery due to the Dwarven Arts and such.

DarthMidget

09-30-2008, 06:15 PM

DarrenMantle

09-30-2008, 08:26 PM

I'm absolutely fine with having the sorcery mechanics glossed over... as long as you know what you're doing, I'm happy just seeing the results.

As for shooting ourselves in the foot, yeah, maybe. But from Talwyn's perspective the very fact that the Empire would consider this invasion to be an appropriate action to take suggests that the Elves really shouldn't be allying with them anyway. On the other hand if Brand can unite at least the March, then the Elves can ally with him or whoever is still the lord of the March.

On another subject, I'm very likely going to drop one of my instincts and replace it with something along the lines of "Never kill a man unawares." Talwyn's nature is going to rebel enough at his act of assassination to form an instinctive abhorrance to ever doing it again. Which could really present some nice opportunities for creating complications. :)

naetuir

09-30-2008, 08:26 PM

I would rather gloss over Sorcery, since I'm not the best at crunchy bits and with my class load haven't had time to absord the Magic Burner. As far as a Dwarven sorcerer-apprentice it won't make any difference really. We'll just says he's one-of-a-kind. Since he won't be a PC I don't see it as being a 'balance' issue.

First: Thank goodness for my cellphone keeping me connected to the internet while the slow ISP takes their time to come out and hook up my DSL!

Anyways! Gripe over. ;) The thing I'm thinking, regarding thie dwarf "magician," is that he would probably accompany me. As something of a sidekick. Or valet, perhaps? ;) Because he probably would have to, since I don't see Black settling down to start a school anytime soon. It seems like there are too many baddies, in too many directions, to become a stationary target. That might be reserved for when he finally decides to settle down (or rather, when that character needs to be retired for something else, etc)..

This is all future muck, but I wanted to let my thoughts be known. When Black does finally try to settle a "Tower of Sorcery" (or whatever his version is), it'll likely be near the dwarven lands, after he's negotiated some kind of deal where he can have many of the dwarven 'old lore' books transcribed for use in the school.. Just stuff to keep in mind when thinking about the direction the action should take.

Back to arranging the new apartment!

Edit: Man do I use the word 'anyways' too much. And yeah, that should be neat for Talwyn. Quite the possible inner turmoil for what he did! As far as Brand coming down on Black.. Well, it's been coming since the first session. These sort of situations will have to show up, for Brand to have some kind of ammo to shoot at him, regarding his evil ways. ;)

Hirram

10-02-2008, 03:14 PM

naetuir

10-02-2008, 04:53 PM

Regarding our discussion of Faith and demons, I thought I'd toss up what's in the books and make a suggestion or two, since it seems like it will be relevant to our game.

The MagBu, in the chapter on Summoning, under the section "Demon, I Abjure Thee!" (p. 128) says that banishing imps and lesser demons from this world requires a minor miracle (Ob5), and banishing anything larger requires a miracle (Ob10).

I think it really depends on just how difficult that we want to make banishing demons. I definitely agree that anything "greater" should be under the miracle heading. Just like bringing someone back to life, or the like. But I'm not sure that a "standard" demon would fall under the same category as banishing an Arch-Devil back to hell. I would be in favor of more of a step system. Even 6-minor, 8-standard, 10-major. Though I still don't think faith will be a cure-all.

This kind of ties in with some thoughts I had about trying to pull Sorcery and Faith together down the line. I really like the idea of the Heaven element being able to increase the power of faith. For either side. Using the 'darkness' side of Heaven to power the "cold" faiths, and the "light" side to power the "hot" faiths. For instances, perhaps a Sorceror can use Heaven to intensify the "power" of the God-side in question, around a particular person. Which wouldn't actually have an effect unless there was some form of faith involved.

Imagine something along the lines of the Sorcerer casting a powerful "connect to godform" type of spell, on an enemy, and then the Faithful being able to directly effect that person with a 2 or 3 obstacle reduction in their Faith roll.

Anyways, I digress...

The brown book (is there a better name for it? It seems to be the only book without a name) has several Faith effects that are relevant (p. 233): Purification (Ob5) will drive out lesser evil spirits, defined as those with a will of B5 and lower, and Consecration (Ob6) bars spirits and demons whose Will is lower than the Faith attribute of the priest.

I don't really see how the two conflict all that much, truth be told. Purification would be more of driving something out, and sending it back to hell. Consecration doesn't even tie in to driving out or banishing. It just stops them from approaching.

I would suggest we expand Purification, because there's no real mechanic (besides banishing them from the earth) for driving off anything with a will above B5. What I suggest is this: Faithful can drive off spirits/demons with an Obstacle equal to the will of the spirit/demon. As with other things, Gray/White Will increases the obstacle by 2/4.

On a tangental note, would it be possible for Brand's uncle to have Instruction and Exorcism Ritual? I'd love to try to talk him into teaching that to Brand- it would be very useful to have, but as a training skill, he can only learn it through instruction or practice, and it's got an aptitude of 7, requiring 42 months of 3-hour study sessions. With him rather hostile, it would be an interesting situation.

Yes! I'm all for that. 42 months of down time would bring my sorcery skills much practice. ;) I just need to flub a couple more spells so I can learn a couple more elements. I'm really seriously lacking an 'area of effect' element...I'm sure that would excite Brand beyond words, knowing that.. ;)

Hirram

10-02-2008, 05:02 PM

To clarify: I agree with the MagBu that it should require a Minor Miracle to banish lesser demons to Hell, and a Major Miracle to banish the larger demons to Hell. If we want to make that more granulated, fine; but I doubt we'll be facing so many of them that it's necessary. Maybe we will, I don't know.

The contrast I saw with Purification was in regards to banishing: I assume Purification drives them off, like we did with that demon two sessions ago, whereas banishing them sends them back to Hell. I don't think there's a contrast with Consecration- I just wrote it out that way because they both came from the brown book.

I'm actually trying to avoid the 42 months of study, and have my uncle instruct me. I'm sure you realize that would be over three years of study ...

DarrenMantle

10-02-2008, 07:05 PM

*thinks of all he could do with three years of study*

*drools*

I can see there's an inherent need to prevent downtime from being abused in this game. :)

DarthMidget

10-02-2008, 08:12 PM

On a tangental note, would it be possible for Brand's uncle to have Instruction and Exorcism Ritual? I'd love to try to talk him into teaching that to Brand- it would be very useful to have, but as a training skill, he can only learn it through instruction or practice, and it's got an aptitude of 7, requiring 42 months of 3-hour study sessions. With him rather hostile, it would be an interesting situation.

You know I really don't have time to fully burn your uncle, but you can! If you'd like then burn him up, and post him here. We'll review him, and offer criticism and comments.

To clarify: I agree with the MagBu that it should require a Minor Miracle to banish lesser demons to Hell, and a Major Miracle to banish the larger demons to Hell. If we want to make that more granulated, fine; but I doubt we'll be facing so many of them that it's necessary. Maybe we will, I don't know.

Demons are a big deal in the Middlelands. You won't be running into many. Everyone that you run into will be considered a significant character. In other words you won't be running into Demon Encouter #35. I don't really think the 'granulation' (what a good word) will be necessary. It's entirely possible you won't run into another demon other than Samael. You'll obviously be seeing him again. Maybe not soon, but he won't be leaving the DM Stable of Characters (TM).

I'm actually trying to avoid the 42 months of study, and have my uncle instruct me. I'm sure you realize that would be over three years of study ...

Uh, yeah we will be avoiding three years of downtime. About the only way that would happen is if you guys run off into the mountains to play 'Hermit the RPG'. If you really want to do that I suppose we can, but the North would pretty much overrun the land in the intervening time.

As far as the relationship between Sorcery and Faith goes I like the idea in theory. I don't really know how it would work, mechanically, but I'm sure we can come up with something.

Hirram

10-02-2008, 08:27 PM

"Louis, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship."

I'd be happy to burn up the uncle. How many LP's?

DarthMidget

10-02-2008, 10:22 PM

I'd be happy to burn up the uncle. How many LP's?

I'd say five or six. Make sure he's well into his middle-ages. Fifties or sixties minimum.

Hirram

10-03-2008, 04:13 AM

*whistles* OK. I assume the standard cap of 6 on skills/stats/etc.? Should he have Faith?

DarrenMantle

10-03-2008, 06:17 AM

This is all going to be very dissapointing when Black and Talwyn assassinate Brand's uncle in his sleep at the start of the next session. ;)

Hirram

10-03-2008, 06:21 AM

Dammit!!!! Stick to killing off your own relationships!

Seriously, though, here are my thoughts so far:

Some Born LP, an Acolyte LP of some sort, and a Priest of some sort as a base. Pretty typical start for clergy, and the quickest way to the kick-ass LP's. That leaves us with 2 or 3 to play with, and here's where I start getting into wanting more than my shopping cart will hold:

Exorcist: Exorcist Ritual, Lost Faith. Gives a reason why the uncle would have Exorcist Ritual, and Lost Faith provides for interesting color, particularly if we can help him gain his Faith back. Of course, who knows if his faith can even BE redeemed?
Inquisitor: Interrogation, Torture, Heresy-wise; Suspicious, Merciless, Cold-Blooded. Makes for a nasty, nasty villain.
Theologian: Rhetoric. Useful in a Duel of Wits.
Court Priest: Persuasion; Royal Favorite. Useful for color. Of course, he doesn't need the trait; he's obviously already in somebody's favor.

Right now I'm leaning toward Village Born, (lead to Religious), Temple Acolyte, (Lead to City Dweller), Temple Priest, (Lead to Religious), Exorcist, Inquisitor, Court Priest. This doesn't make him old enough, though. I could switch Village Born for City Born and gain a few years, but Village Born gives him an extra Trait point, which could be very useful. Of course, we could always say the guy is in his 50's or 60's, and screw what the LP's say- we'd need an average of 8 to 12 yrs per lifepath to hit that age range anyway.

DarthMidget

10-03-2008, 10:56 AM

Of course, we could always say the guy is in his 50's or 60's, and screw what the LP's say

Sure! I just want that age for color. Old and world-wearied and angry at the impetuousness of youth.

naetuir

10-03-2008, 11:08 AM

This is all going to be very dissapointing when Black and Talwyn assassinate Brand's uncle in his sleep at the start of the next session. ;)

Hah!

Dammit!!!! Stick to killing off your own relationships!

What about the assassin's that we killed off?? Those were someones relationships!

Speaking of which, I'm kinda worried that no more assassins have been sent your way. Not that I want to look a gift horse in the mouth, but... it seems like we're due for a Northernly butt whoppin'.

Of which, if I have the time in the next week or two, I think I'll start fleshing out some of the north. Maybe even some of the people that Black might have known from his past... You guys want me to make wise checks based on some of that stuff? Or just flesh it out? I can always link to the results of the rolls for ya'll (there is a verifier all set up on the rpg agent app I'm setting up now), right on the wiki. Just figured I'd offer, since that tends to be the way the world 'evolves' once the game has started.

I'll obviously have to make sure none of it conflicts with Kyle, but I can get stuff started. It'll probably be the stuff out of Black's past that I'll flesh out some of. Where he learned magic, where his spy/assassin training came from, et al.

DarthMidget

10-03-2008, 08:47 PM

I'm kinda worried that no more assassins have been sent your way.

Why use assassins when you can manipulate an Imperial army?

Of which, if I have the time in the next week or two, I think I'll start fleshing out some of the north. Maybe even some of the people that Black might have known from his past... You guys want me to make wise checks based on some of that stuff? Or just flesh it out? I can always link to the results of the rolls for ya'll (there is a verifier all set up on the rpg agent app I'm setting up now), right on the wiki. Just figured I'd offer, since that tends to be the way the world 'evolves' once the game has started.

I'll obviously have to make sure none of it conflicts with Kyle, but I can get stuff started. It'll probably be the stuff out of Black's past that I'll flesh out some of. Where he learned magic, where his spy/assassin training came from, et al.

Sounds good. Also, no need to use 'wises' for creating fluff stuff that might not ever get used! Wises, IMHO, tend to be more about stuff that matters right at that moment in the game. Course I could be wrong on that.

naetuir

10-06-2008, 02:14 PM

Why use assassins when you can manipulate an Imperial army?

Because a scalpel is much better for removing a skin blemish than a 2x4? Just a thought. ;)

DarthMidget

10-06-2008, 09:30 PM

Because a scalpel is much better for removing a skin blemish than a 2x4? Just a thought.

Scalpel...sledgehammer. What's the difference? All I know is you have to kill a few thousand people to make an omelet. Or something like that.

Hirram

10-09-2008, 07:33 AM

It is not a matter of having to kill a few thousand people to make an omelet, it is a few thousand people committing ritual suicide to aspire to omelethood. I think.

naetuir

10-09-2008, 06:52 PM

And here I thought it was a matter of killing a few thousand people to acquire the means with which to make an omelet. My bad.

naetuir

10-14-2008, 11:49 AM

Hey Darren--

I think Black is going to spend some time trying to talk to Talwyn about "the magic of the elves," to try and find out what he knows and what to expect of them. We can chat about exactly what Black is looking for, but it's basically just him trying to familiarize himself a bit more with how he might benefit his sorcery from meeting with them directly, and who he might speak with of the elves 'long knowledge'.

And by the by Hirram- I have finally figured out the track that Black will be taking while talking with Brand about sorcery. It should lead to some amusing play. :) I do believe that Black is going to start opening Heretical Doctrine with you as well. At least to represent the fact that he -is- listening. Even if it's not sinking in. ;)

Hirram

10-14-2008, 11:56 AM

Well, that's all Brand is really asking for- to him, the truth of it is so blindingly obvious that I doubt it has occurred to him that one might be able to learn about his faith without converting.

Just to reiterate, Brand hopes to convince Black to abandon sorcery- I do not. Probably a good thing, because I doubt Black will agree to any DoW where the stakes might require him to permanantly abandon sorcery. Brand might try for smaller wins, though.

naetuir

10-15-2008, 01:30 PM

Well, Black can provide him with some perspective then! We didn't want Brand getting -too- inflated of an ego. Plus, with him working on becoming King of the Marches Theocracy, he'll need someone that can, er, challenge his beliefs. :)

Brand is more than welcome to keep trying to convince Black that his sorcery is evil. He'll be doing much the opposite, trying to convince Brand that it works within the nature that Ahuramazda has already created -for- his children. Or at least, that's how he'll put it. Whether or not he is smote by Ahuramazda.. Well, that's a whole nother thing entirely. :)

But he's already got at least one win! Black didn't come and assassinate anyone else while you were headed to Stolojan! ;)

Hirram

10-15-2008, 01:53 PM

No, but he DID try to assassinate Retechko ... though I notice he didn't mention that to Brand.

naetuir

10-15-2008, 02:06 PM

Hmmm... He didn't -really- try to assassinate Retechko. Not exactly anyways.. ;) He was only *thinking* about it! You can't blame the character for the player being silly. :)

*adjusts the halo hanging above Black's head, which just happen to be sitting on the horns*

Hirram

10-15-2008, 03:30 PM

By the way, I have the uncle more-or-less burned up: I'm still working on Beliefs and Instincts, so feel free to toss those out. I'll leave the disposition of resources to Kyle; I imagine he spent most of them on relationships (probably some important ones, too), but I wouldn't be surprised if he had some nice property as well.

One other thing: he's got 4 Traits left to spend. I'm torn between the following three options:
*Quick-Witted (+1D to Rebuttal)
*Stubborn (+2D BoA if Belief is threatened) + character trait
*Tenacious (if BoA is reduced to 0 or less, BoA put back to 1)

naetuir

10-15-2008, 03:37 PM

I would go for Stubborn x2. Considering that he watched you tear apart the King, and still thinks that you're a charleton?? :)

Hirram

10-15-2008, 03:40 PM

Well, there's not room enough for 2x Stubborn: he has 4 to spend, and Stubborn costs 2. But I'll drop Quick-Witted, as I agree. So, either Stubborn (he'll have Strong-Willed as a character trait as a native Martian) or Tenacious. For the reasons you list, I'm leaning toward Stubborn now.

Hirram

10-16-2008, 07:56 AM

Brand's uncle is now up on the wiki: http://bluesiren.net/rpg/chris/wiki/index.php?title=(Brand%27s_Uncle).

I decided to go with Stubborn and Ambitious. I'm still in need of a 3rd Belief and all the Instincts. I've left the massive number of resource points for Kyle to play with if he likes ... unless I get bored and start playing again.

DarthMidget

10-16-2008, 11:54 AM

He looks pretty good. The thoughts you had on Resources sound pretty good. If you want you can allocate those as you wish.

naetuir

10-16-2008, 02:22 PM

For his third belief, I think he should have something that doens't involve the church. Maybe something about his personal family (if he has such), or his friends.

Something that makes him "vulnerable" in some way, basically. All of his beliefs right now are "strong" and "outer" beliefs. Something "inward" about himself would probalby be best. :)

"I will not let my family come to harm." or.. "There is no one more important to me than... X" etc.

Hirram

10-18-2008, 07:08 AM

Good ideas.

Have any of you guys ever watched Jesus Christ Superstar? I'm in the middle of watching the version from the 70's, and I'd forgotten what interesting dynamics are going on there. Followers trying to drag the movement in different directions- Simon trying to turn it into a violent uprising, Judas trying to tamp it down to avoid trouble with the authorities, etc. Caiaphas and the high court deciding to have him killed (much like Brand's uncle did). Being overwhelmed by lepers and the lame. Yes, I'm aware that most of those are present in the "original", but there's a certain focus on the different forces swirling around him that I like about the musical.

I could see his chief follower having a belief regarding the direction of the movement that conflicts with what Brand intends. I might burn him up with a belief that subtly twists what Brand intends- any ideas? The political situation doesn't have the built-in tension that being a religious leader of an occupied people does, but there's still potential. It's rare that a religious leader manages to keep a perfect grip on a popular movement.

DarrenMantle

10-19-2008, 08:05 PM

Just to update my own homework, I should have a full burn for Karamar up by tomorrow. I'm giving him some extra Resources to work with because frankly he needs them to fill the NPC role he's supposed to have as the focus of Talwyn's non-possessed opposition in the Elven nation.

I like all the work that's gone into Brand's uncle and the above idea of using JCS as source material for Brand's cult is inspired.

naetuir

10-20-2008, 11:15 AM

Regarding the JCS thing.. While I've never seen it, I get the drift. And after reflection on it, considering that it seems we're continuing to keep focus on the return of the God.. I may have Black be one of those guys that take some teachings from Brand and "pervert" it, to some degree. I can totally see him doing that. Taking things to a place that Brand doesn't like at some point.

I'm sure it will come about organically in character, but it bared mentioning that I, too, liked the idea. :)

naetuir

10-20-2008, 03:22 PM

Hey Hirram - I've been snicking templates off of the official BW wiki to use on my local one. You may want to consider trying out this template for your uncle (it would probably make more sense, considering that he's not a PC and wont advance as such, really):

http://bluesiren.net/rpg/chris/wiki/index.php?title=Burning_Wheel_Template#Character_T emplate_.28Short.29

Hirram

10-21-2008, 06:39 AM

I like that. I'll probably convert him over to that when I'm finished, though I'll drop in sections for relationships, affiliations, etc.

For his disciple, I'm thinking of going City Born, Student (needs Read and Write, but not Bureaucracy!), lead to Religious, then Custodian/Notary/Interpreter/Archivist (took work with the Church, though not in a way that is particularly religious; this would be where he met Brand), then on to either Zealous Convert (I'd like to switch Doctrine for Heretical Doctrine) or lead to Outcast and take Apostate (if Custodian).

naetuir

10-21-2008, 02:27 PM

Personally speaking, I wouldn't feel obligated to keep to the lifepath system when creating a 'well established' character. Doing the lifepaths as a solid foundation wouldn't be bad, but I think that for someone as established as your uncle is supposed to be, I wouldn't have a problem with a few 'extra points' thrown around. To some degree, I would say similarly for any NPC. For instance, your disciple has technically been "in play" and "gaining tasks" for a while now. So, would he really just be straight LPs only? I doubt it.

Just my two cents anyways. :)

Hirram

11-04-2008, 07:51 AM

A couple of things: first, I'm really liking our group dynamic. I like the fact that Chris can introduce some pretty heavy intra-group conflict, and we all work together to keep the game from imploding. The scene with Talwyn's wife was incredible, but it could have destroyed another gaming group. I thought we did a good job handling "screen time" in our last session, too. Concerns are going to come up, and I feel like we all handled the situation well, and came out the better for it.

Second, I recall that the names from the March and the Empire were eastern European- Romanian and Lithuanian, perhaps?- but I don't recall which is which. I'm thinking that I might shift Corin's name to a similar name of appropriate origin, just for continuity's sake.

Oh, and about our brainstorming last night: IIRC, we established that the elves are familiar with sorcery, due mostly to their longevity and incredible learning. Some elves can even use sorcery, but those secrets are held by the Cult. Perhaps that's because the demons have the ability to grant the Gifted trait to a deserving few? Perhaps that's the only way an elf can be Gifted, and the primary purpose of this particular cult is to gain that power through trafficking with demons.

DarthMidget

11-04-2008, 09:16 AM

Second, I recall that the names from the March and the Empire were eastern European- Romanian and Lithuanian, perhaps?- but I don't recall which is which. I'm thinking that I might shift Corin's name to a similar name of appropriate origin, just for continuity's sake.

Correct. For most of the Marchers I've been trying to use Romanian names. For the Imperial nobility I use either Romanian or Lithuanian for the royal family itself.

Oh, and about our brainstorming last night: IIRC, we established that the elves are familiar with sorcery, due mostly to their longevity and incredible learning. Some elves can even use sorcery, but those secrets are held by the Cult. Perhaps that's because the demons have the ability to grant the Gifted trait to a deserving few? Perhaps that's the only way an elf can be Gifted, and the primary purpose of this particular cult is to gain that power through trafficking with demons.

Elves can do spirit binding, summoning, and other forms of magic that don't require Gifted. Rakshasas can practice Sorcery, I think. Demonic Gifts would be an interesting idea. Maybe we could make it a bit more limited than the normal Gifted state. Like the White Elves (those of the Cult of Ahriman!) can only use magic tied to ice, snow, cold, etc. Thoughts?

A couple of things: first, I'm really liking our group dynamic. I like the fact that Chris can introduce some pretty heavy intra-group conflict, and we all work together to keep the game from imploding. The scene with Talwyn's wife was incredible, but it could have destroyed another gaming group. I thought we did a good job handling "screen time" in our last session, too. Concerns are going to come up, and I feel like we all handled the situation well, and came out the better for it.

Agreed. Last night ended with a bang I didn't think we'd get to last session. I figured the Etharchy Citadel wouldn't burn down for atleast another session!

Also, short list of new NPCs:

Rúmil Telpeŕién- Talwyn's Enmity Relationship from Circles. A White Elf.

Camthalion Elanessë - After Elienne's "fall" he will be the new head of the Cult of Ahriman. A former consort of Queen Nienna, and also a shape-shifting Rakshasa sorceror. In the chaos following Talwyn's denunciation of him he was wounded by Black's spell. This, to Camthalion, is...upsetting.

Sammael - The old demon you all know and love to hate. Currently searching for someone Talwyn loves so he can possess them.

Mastema - The demon summoned and bound inside an Elven child to guard Camthalion's apartments. With the Citadel destroyed her location is unknown...as are her/his/its loyalties.

Queen Nienna of House Ancalimon - The rightful ruler of the Etharchy of the Elves. Now fighting a civil war against the White Elves led by her former consort, the Raskshasa Camthalion. Also, even though he was somewhat dishonored the Queen's army is still commanded by Karemar.

Elienna of House Ancalimon - The younger daughter of Queen Nienna, the former high priestess of the Cult of Ahriman, the once-vessel of the demon Sammael, and the current wife of Talwyn the Demon-Hunter.

Hirram

11-04-2008, 09:19 AM

naetuir

11-04-2008, 10:16 AM

Elves can do spirit binding, summoning, and other forms of magic that don't require Gifted. Rakshasas can practice Sorcery, I think. Demonic Gifts would be an interesting idea. Maybe we could make it a bit more limited than the normal Gifted state. Like the White Elves (those of the Cult of Ahriman!) can only use magic tied to ice, snow, cold, etc. Thoughts?

As much as I begin to like this idea, I think that the whole idea of introducing something more for the bad guys to have, it starting to get unbalancing... Consider: Death Art, Summoning, Blood Magic, Orc-Magic... All of which the good guys are unlikely to use. Not saying they shouldn't have standard access to Sorcery, but the idea of adding "Demonically Gifted" as a trait just seems like going a bit far.

On the flip side of that, I have no problem saying that there is nothing stopping an Elf from -being- Gifted. Just like the Dwarves. But it should be few and far between compared to humans.

(I'm thinking 1/500 for humans, and 1/5000 for elves/dwarves - YRMV)

A couple of things: first, I'm really liking our group dynamic. I like the fact that Chris can introduce some pretty heavy intra-group conflict, and we all work together to keep the game from imploding. The scene with Talwyn's wife was incredible, but it could have destroyed another gaming group. I thought we did a good job handling "screen time" in our last session, too. Concerns are going to come up, and I feel like we all handled the situation well, and came out the better for it.

Agreed. Last night ended with a bang I didn't think we'd get to last session. I figured the Etharchy Citadel wouldn't burn down for atleast another session!

Admittedly, I've been looking for a group that can handle that kind of intra-party conflict for a while now. I'm really excited that we can all handle it, and work together to solve problems that are introduced. Whether it's because Black has an evil streak miles long, or because Brand wants to martyr himself on some torturers pick, or Talwyn decides to crash the elf queens party, I think we've managed to stick together, and 'keep with each other' extremely well. :)

Personally, I think the best part is that we don't 'pull apart' because of the conflict. We band together. Helping instead of hindering.

Camthalion Elanessë - After Elienne's "fall" he will be the new head of the Cult of Ahriman. A former consort of Queen Nienna, and also a shape-shifting Rakshasa sorceror. In the chaos following Talwyn's denunciation of him he was wounded by Black's spell. This, to Camthalion, is...upsetting.

This is...upsetting... to Black, as well. Mostly because he pretty much did the highest damage to that guy that he is currently even capable of. Thank goodness for Arestia (bad spelling, I know...books nowhere nearby!)

Mastema - The demon summoned and bound inside an Elven child to guard Camthalion's apartments. With the Citadel destroyed her location is unknown...as are her/his/its loyalties.

I'm thinking Black is going to go looking for her. Not for the reason that Talwyn or Brand might think. He wants to talk to the demon. Play with fire a bit, as it were. Demons after all are large founts of knowledge... ;)

Plus, it's a bit like home! Being told that he's going to have his soul ate after every other word. :)

naetuir

11-04-2008, 10:19 AM

A few notes other than that:

1) Can Brand and I have tests for the 30 days we spent traveling to the elf Kingdom for instruction? He'd need to make instruction roles for me to get the tests against my aptitude for Heretical Doctrine.

2) Will Corin (or whatever his name is) teach Black to Read openly? He'll want to learn to Write too, but it'll take about a month for him to learn to just Read.

3) I was thinking about this, and I think I'm going to post in another form.. If I add the facet "Single Target" multiple times, I think that would allow me to hit multiple people with the same spell (effectively creating a 'pronged' bolt spell, or something of the like)... That might have come in handy for that ambush, though I definitely think the right thing was done there. I'm just curious if it's an option..

Hirram

11-04-2008, 10:21 AM

I can see Black as being interested in the girl demon, particularly if we determine in-play that demons are the source of the cultists' sorcerous power.

As far as the 'Demonically Gifted' trait goes, the way I read Kyle's post it would essentially -be- Gifted, just more limited: they can't use anything that isn't thematically appropriate.

DarthMidget

11-04-2008, 11:31 AM

As far as the 'Demonically Gifted' trait goes, the way I read Kyle's post it would essentially -be- Gifted, just more limited: they can't use anything that isn't thematically appropriate.

Yup. Also, my idea of the Demonic Gift would be those few Elves who have it only get it after they, well, trade their souls. So, it's not something that even White Elves would do very often. Basically just the fanatics and crazies. Even Elves have crazies!

1) Can Brand and I have tests for the 30 days we spent traveling to the elf Kingdom for instruction? He'd need to make instruction roles for me to get the tests against my aptitude for Heretical Doctrine.

Didn't you guys already use your time for travel for other tests? Or no?

2) Will Corin (or whatever his name is) teach Black to Read openly? He'll want to learn to Write too, but it'll take about a month for him to learn to just Read.

I'm sure he will if Brand tells him to do so. Also, of course, Brand can't read either...hint, hint.

I'm thinking Black is going to go looking for her. Not for the reason that Talwyn or Brand might think. He wants to talk to the demon. Play with fire a bit, as it were. Demons after all are large founts of knowledge...

Mastema would certainly have a great deal of knowledge. Though what she would want for trading that knowledge...<shudder>. Perhaps better not to dwell on such things.

Hirram

11-04-2008, 11:56 AM

I'm sure he will if Brand tells him to do so. Also, of course, Brand can't read either...hint, hint.

I'm sure there's room in there for a compromise ;)

I've modified/rewritten Brand's Belief regarding the Citadel: "The Citadel has burned- now is the time to establish the worship of Ahuramazda. I will find those who suffered under the Cult of Arhiman and convert them."

I'm burning Brand's disciple now- I've changed his name slightly to Cornel. I'm considering one of the following 3 LP's:
*Custodian. Gets Relic-wise, etc., which could be interesting down the line.
*Interpreter. Has Ancient Languages and Instruction.
*Archivist. Has Research and Library-wise.

naetuir

11-05-2008, 02:29 PM

Yup. Also, my idea of the Demonic Gift would be those few Elves who have it only get it after they, well, trade their souls. So, it's not something that even White Elves would do very often. Basically just the fanatics and crazies. Even Elves have crazies!

I'm still iffy on this. I'm thinking some pretty heavy limitations should be placed on this. Maybe a demon marks one person at a time, they get the corruption attribute, and eventually go completely nuts..? I'm also thinking that those with the "Faithful" trait should be unaffected by the Sorcery that they use.

Didn't you guys already use your time for travel for other tests? Or no?

We used the time. But never did the instruction tests, nor added the opening tests to my sheet.. So, Hirram, we should probably do that. :)

Mastema would certainly have a great deal of knowledge. Though what she would want for trading that knowledge...<shudder>. Perhaps better not to dwell on such things.

But... Why not dwell on such things? Mastema might simply be amused that a guy that is so 'on the fence' would be willing to talk to her/it. Corrupting influence and all!

I'm burning Brand's disciple now-

I had an idea that you may or may not find amusing. What if he had the trait Gifted? And never knew about it? That could lead to some amusing play down the line... Actually, it wouldn't even necessarily have to be him. Just one of the Brand's 'direct' disciples.

Anyways, that's just an aside. I would still like to pursue learning a few things from him. In fact, probably several things. Tap him for information on Research, Ancient Languages, Read and Write. Probably try to find someone else for Calligraphy. Maybe find someone to teach Foreign Languages- Elven. I have a feeling that Black is going to end up as a repository of knowledge. :)

Update: Beyond that, Black did actively participate in the battle of the Citadel. Staying very near Talwyn's side after dealing with the Raksha. Actively throwing balls of fire around and helping to keep Talwyn and Brand as safe as he could. I'm sure we'll go over more of that next Monday, but I wanted to throw it out there. There are few in the Elven etharchy that wouldn't be aware that they have a real-live human Sorcerer in their midst due to that. I'm thinking I'll knock my Forte to temp of 1 for the next day (depending on how we decide to skip time, et al), because of his slinging on spells.

Hirram

11-05-2008, 02:38 PM

naetuir

11-05-2008, 02:47 PM

I think it is already far more limited than the standard Gifted trait, but the Corruption attribute is kind of a cool idea. As to leaving the Faithful unaffected, I'm not sure it's necessary- an Ob5 Faith test acts as a spellbreaker anyway. I think the bad guys should be a threat to all of us!

I really don't recall how the time was spent- if it was with Brand teaching Black Heretical Doctrine, I will have to make the Instruction rolls, as it will affect how far the teaching gets.

Hmm ... Born Gifted would suit for Cornel. Brand might be willing to let him teach Black various things, but don't be fooled into thinking that Mastema is the only one likely to extract a price for teaching ... :D

1) I'm just really leery of the gifted trait being thrown around by 'someone' rather than being a born trait. Even if it's a demon. I guess if we counter it by saying that Angels may grant the "Angelically Gifted" trait, I'm alright with it.

2) I think that's what we said we'd do with the time? I'm pretty sure.. :) I think it's like.. 10 minus your will, plus 10 minus my will as a base time per test? That should make it 8 days per test. We were on the road a month (30 days?). So.. 3 tests? 24 days?

3) You mean my acting as your own personal bodyguard isn't a price? ;)

Update: After posting that #1 item, I started musing. Perhaps the good guys COULD use Summoning, just for Angels instead of Demons. I'd have to look up what the current rules are (because I never even really looked them over much), but one would think if you could summon demons, you could also summon angels. I know it's in the rules for abject failure for sorcery that you have equal chance of getting an angel OR a demon.

Hirram

11-05-2008, 03:27 PM

Heh. There is an angelic counterpoint to Gifted- Faithful. (At least, that's how Brand sees it.)

I'll make and post the Instruction rolls here, then, if Kyle has no objections. Successful tests will actually be 9 days: as you described, plus the difficulty of the test offered

And sure, Brand appreciates Black's help ... and in return, he's trying to save Black's soul. Instruction, research, etc., are a separate negotiation ... maybe even a small-stakes DoW.

naetuir

11-05-2008, 03:50 PM

Hah. I'm sure we can have a nice philosophical debate IC about the angelic counterpoint to Sorcery. :) It's really too bad that Black doesn't value his soul. Who knows. Maybe he'll start seeing a value in it..one day. That'll be an interesting DoW!

As a side note, I changed two of my beliefs to more readily fit the current situation at hand.

The one about Brand changed to: "The elven kingdom is rife with corruption" Purging fires must be taken to the elves that choose the way of Kelija in order to restore order and balance to the once tranquil elven kingdom.

And the one about finding ancient sorcerous relics changed to: "I will discover if there are ancient repositories of Sorcerous knowledge in the elven kingdom"
Black believes that there is a significant amount of sorcerous knowledge held by the long-lived Elves, and will be working towards uncovering those hidden troves.

Hirram

11-05-2008, 05:06 PM

Question: does Cornel need to take a relationship with Brand if Brand already has a relationship with him? I'm assuming no. What about an affiliation with the group of disciples?

naetuir

11-05-2008, 05:37 PM

I would say no on the first, because he's with him most of the time. Brand is something of the figurehead. But yes, on the second. I would even say he'd want a lot of influence there, because he's kind of ending up as our interface to the disciples. If not him, then you (Brand) need to get some affiliation points for that. :)

DarthMidget

11-05-2008, 10:40 PM

I'm still iffy on this. I'm thinking some pretty heavy limitations should be placed on this. Maybe a demon marks one person at a time, they get the corruption attribute, and eventually go completely nuts..? I'm also thinking that those with the "Faithful" trait should be unaffected by the Sorcery that they use.

As far as corruption goes I was thinking about maybe instead of them becoming more and more corrupted they become more and more cold and lifeless. Eventually they decay into some sort of icy undead. As far as the Faithful being immune I'm not too sure on that. That would make them UBER vulnerable to Brand, and turn him into a White Elf smiting machine.

Update: Beyond that, Black did actively participate in the battle of the Citadel. Staying very near Talwyn's side after dealing with the Raksha. Actively throwing balls of fire around and helping to keep Talwyn and Brand as safe as he could. I'm sure we'll go over more of that next Monday, but I wanted to throw it out there. There are few in the Elven etharchy that wouldn't be aware that they have a real-live human Sorcerer in their midst due to that. I'm thinking I'll knock my Forte to temp of 1 for the next day (depending on how we decide to skip time, et al), because of his slinging on spells.

That'll work. Don't worry about the Forte though. I was thinking we would restart the adventure about a month after the Burning of the Citadel. Maybe there have been a few battles that the characters have participated in. The capitol city might very well be in ruins. Whatever. Now you guys would get some downtime in that period, but not a massive amount since your characters would be fighting the White Elves during that time.

I'm just really leery of the gifted trait being thrown around by 'someone' rather than being a born trait. Even if it's a demon. I guess if we counter it by saying that Angels may grant the "Angelically Gifted" trait, I'm alright with it.

Well I wouldn't say it's being thrown around. Remember the idea I had is that the White Elves have to trade their SOUL for this ability. That's a pretty steep price for an Elf to have to pay. I imagine there would be, at most, about a dozen of the Demonically Gifted.

Update: After posting that #1 item, I started musing. Perhaps the good guys COULD use Summoning, just for Angels instead of Demons.

I see no reason why that wouldn't work.

I'll make and post the Instruction rolls here, then, if Kyle has no objections. Successful tests will actually be 9 days: as you described, plus the difficulty of the test offered

Fine by me.

Question: does Cornel need to take a relationship with Brand if Brand already has a relationship with him? I'm assuming no. What about an affiliation with the group of disciples?

Your assumption is correct for the first part. You might want to give him an affiliation w/the disciples just in case Brand dies and Cornel becomes your main PC.

Hirram

11-06-2008, 05:29 AM

I like your take on Corruption- it works very well with what the "evil" powers are. I still agree that Faithful shouldn't be immune to evil powers; the Faith rules already cover their resistance pretty well.

As for the rolls (all of these rolls were made using Brand's stats prior to last session):
*prayer for aid: help on Instruction. Successful.
*Ob4 Instruction test; 5 successes (-10% time, according to Instruction). Ob1 Heretical Doctrine test for Black; 8 days consumed.
*prayer for aid: unsuccessful.
*Ob4 Instruction test: 1 success. 9 days of Practice in Heretical Doctrine for Black.
*prayer for aid: successful.
*Ob4 Instruction test: 4 successes. Ob1 Heretical Doctrine test for Black; 9 days consumed.

In all, Brand got 3 Beginner's Luck tests for Instruction, and Black got 2 Beginner's Luck tests and 9 days of practice for Heretical Doctrine.

naetuir

11-06-2008, 06:56 AM

As far as corruption goes I was thinking about maybe instead of them becoming more and more corrupted they become more and more cold and lifeless. Eventually they decay into some sort of icy undead. As far as the Faithful being immune I'm not too sure on that. That would make them UBER vulnerable to Brand, and turn him into a White Elf smiting machine.

....

Well I wouldn't say it's being thrown around. Remember the idea I had is that the White Elves have to trade their SOUL for this ability. That's a pretty steep price for an Elf to have to pay. I imagine there would be, at most, about a dozen of the Demonically Gifted.

I'm mostly worried about the scales. Since there is.. one human that we've established, with Sorcery. That's on the good side (sorta). And one faithful. If the elves have a dozen.. and the north.. Well, who knows by the time they show up. I'd think they'd have at least a few.

That'll work. Don't worry about the Forte though. I was thinking we would restart the adventure about a month after the Burning of the Citadel. Maybe there have been a few battles that the characters have participated in. The capitol city might very well be in ruins. Whatever. Now you guys would get some downtime in that period, but not a massive amount since your characters would be fighting the White Elves during that time.

No instruction then? How about some practice time? Like, half the normal allotment?

In all, Brand got 3 Beginner's Luck tests for Instruction, and Black got 2 Beginner's Luck tests and 9 days of practice for Heretical Doctrine.

So noted. Thanks! :)

Hirram

11-06-2008, 07:21 AM

What the matter- think we're not a match for them? I suspect if nothing else, they won't be great at cooperation, as they're all likely to be ambitious, and they will compete amongst themselves as much as anything else.

By the way, does Black have any way of detecting that Cornel is Gifted, if I take him that route? I don't intend Cornel to even realize if I do, though he might wonder why he's always been a little 'different'. It would provide some interesting story material- if Cornel wants to explore it, his loyalties might become split ... unless Brand is successful in bringing Black closer to the faith, in which case it might provide a useful vehicle for changing Brand's beliefs regarding sorcery. Of course, that might force Brand to confront the fact that the wickedness he sees stems not from the sorcery, but from Black himself ...

DarthMidget

11-06-2008, 09:24 AM

I'm mostly worried about the scales. Since there is.. one human that we've established, with Sorcery. That's on the good side (sorta). And one faithful. If the elves have a dozen.. and the north.. Well, who knows by the time they show up. I'd think they'd have at least a few.

I think it'll be fine. Or you guys will all die horribly.

No instruction then? How about some practice time? Like, half the normal allotment?

We can talk about it on Monday.

Hirram

11-06-2008, 09:34 AM

I think it'll be fine. Or you guys will all die horribly.

Isn't that always the way for us ...

naetuir

11-06-2008, 09:39 AM

What the matter- think we're not a match for them? I suspect if nothing else, they won't be great at cooperation, as they're all likely to be ambitious, and they will compete amongst themselves as much as anything else.

You're probably right. I just worry about tipping the scales too much... It comes from playing with GMs that believes it's them vs us too much, I think. Not that some of that isn't healthy, but.. Let's just say that I've had GMs that let NPCs get away with everything and PCs get away with nothing, far too much.

By the way, does Black have any way of detecting that Cornel is Gifted, if I take him that route? I don't intend Cornel to even realize if I do, though he might wonder why he's always been a little 'different'. It would provide some interesting story material- if Cornel wants to explore it, his loyalties might become split ... unless Brand is successful in bringing Black closer to the faith, in which case it might provide a useful vehicle for changing Brand's beliefs regarding sorcery. Of course, that might force Brand to confront the fact that the wickedness he sees stems not from the sorcery, but from Black himself ...

Not really. But being Gifted makes weird things happen around you once in a while, and maybe Cornel himself would recognize some of it. Since it's likely he knows that Black is a Sorcerer at this point. I think half the fun is going to be figuring out how they end up finding out that he's Gifted. I don't expect he's going to start learning (or wanting to) even in the next story arch. It'll just be good fuel for the future.

As far as Brand needing to be fronted about the wickedness of Black.. Well, he'd have to face that eventually -some- day. I see Black kind of like a White Cloak from the Robert Jordan series (RIP), at this point. Kind of like an inquisitor even. He has good intentions (because of Brand's converting him), but he's -definitely- going to take it Too Far(tm). If it's necessary to destroy a village for the common good, Black would spearhead that in a heartbeat.

If it were in D&D terms, I'd say that Black is -highly- tainted (from the Book of Horrors). I mean, imagine regularly seeing people tortured and put through hell (in a non-figurative manner) for most of your childhood. Scourgings as a regular occurrence. Even for not doing something that might be considered 'incorrect'. He was broken, beaten, nearly killed, in his time in the north. You don't survive that without some form of 'madness'. I'm not saying that it'd be impossible to pull him back from that. Far from it. I like that as 'fuel' for the story as well. I'm figuring that at some point Brand and Black will have some kind of a serious throw down. I'm just hoping Black doesn't come out of that throw down with his Gifted trait being removed. ;) Which is one of the reasons I (the player) want to see Brand understanding that Gifted isn't 'evil' in and of itself.

I think it'll be fine. Or you guys will all die horribly.

"Certainty of death, small chance of success....What're we waitin' for?"

Hirram

11-06-2008, 09:54 AM

I as a player certainly don't want to see Black stripped of the Gifted trait, since it's so much of what the character is ... and so much of the character cost and subsequent development have gone into it. Brand is a different story, so we'll have to work to try to keep him from destroying that.

As I wrote Cornel, he's noticed strange things happening around him, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him consider investigating what might cause that. That's more the GM's call than mine, though. Still, his Gifted trait may be the thing that helps tip the balance ... unless Brand decides that being Gifted is what makes Cornel such a dangerous firebrand. (Yes, I know that's the pot calling the kettle black.)

"Certainty of death, small chance of success....What're we waitin' for?"

That's certainly something Brand's prepared for. Not looking forward to it, exactly, but rather resigned to that fate.

Aramis

11-06-2008, 10:19 AM

Naetuir: When a GM forgets that he works for and with the players for a good story, it's time to hang up the shield and switch to board games.

And its time for the players to walk.

naetuir

11-06-2008, 11:43 AM

Naetuir: When a GM forgets that he works for and with the players for a good story, it's time to hang up the shield and switch to board games.

And its time for the players to walk.

That's a great thought, in theory. But the particular person (which is the reason I fear it too much, because I let it go on for too long) I'm talking about is the same person that got me in to RPGs in general, and had been playing them with me since the time I was 13. Problem is, he never grew up, but was still a great friend of mine. So it's not quite as simple as you make it sound. :)

But, if it hadn't been that situation for him, yes, absolutely. I've walked away from two other games with GMs like that, thus far.

That's certainly something Brand's prepared for. Not looking forward to it, exactly, but rather resigned to that fate.

That actually was a quote from Lord of the Rings. ;) But yes, I can see Brand thinking that way. Black OTOH isn't quite so much of a pacifist. ;)

naetuir

11-06-2008, 01:05 PM

Also, short list of new NPCs:

Rúmil ...

Quick aside: I started combing the thread for a 'Who's Who (http://bluesiren.net/rpg/chris/wiki/index.php?title=Burning_Marches_Who%27s_Who)' page on the wiki.

I changed my instincts as well. Completely replaced the first, reworded the other two:

Stay alert - Because of his past, Black is always on the look out for sudden shifts of activity.
Avoid notice - Black does not wish to be seen or to be extremely memorable. When in doubt, he's trying to be inconspicuous.
Protect the prophet - Black has mixed feelings about the Prophet. He wants to believe extremely deeply, though he doesn't outwardly recognize it. Just on instinct he will act to protect Brand as long as it does not endanger himself.

DarrenMantle

11-08-2008, 08:37 PM

Sorry I've been not chiming in on this, I am interested, just never seem to get around to actually posting.

Regarding the idea of a Demonically Gifted option for the Elves, I'm definitely in favor of such a thing in very limited supply. I figure that the Elves as Children of the Earth have very potent souls - hence their natural magic - and the corruption of one of those souls is a good Price for demonic sorcerous power. I would put some very specific limitations on it though. It would almost certainly be limited in domains to cold, darkness, and demon summoning. Also, to emphasize the Price of this bargain, any Elf that sells himself in this way would lose all access to Skill Songs and Spell Songs. The natural power that gives the Elves these abilities has died and become the frozen, bitter twisted thing that allows them to channel the power of sorcery. Last, Grief would be entirely replaced by Corruption, which should start at a nice high level since the elf has already sold his/her soul.

As far as the balance of power, well... I like the idea that sorcery currently exists almost exclusively as a power of the North. While we have established through Black that Sorcery can be used in this world without the taint of corruption, we also seem to have more or less established the connotation that Sorcery is easier for the dark powers. Black's entire struggle with restoring Sorcery is to do so in a way that is free of this evil influence.

DarthMidget

11-22-2008, 09:23 PM

Regarding the idea of a Demonically Gifted option for the Elves, I'm definitely in favor of such a thing in very limited supply. I figure that the Elves as Children of the Earth have very potent souls - hence their natural magic - and the corruption of one of those souls is a good Price for demonic sorcerous power. I would put some very specific limitations on it though. It would almost certainly be limited in domains to cold, darkness, and demon summoning. Also, to emphasize the Price of this bargain, any Elf that sells himself in this way would lose all access to Skill Songs and Spell Songs. The natural power that gives the Elves these abilities has died and become the frozen, bitter twisted thing that allows them to channel the power of sorcery. Last, Grief would be entirely replaced by Corruption, which should start at a nice high level since the elf has already sold his/her soul.

That makes a lot of sense. Thoughts on those guys? I was thinking about trying to burn up a White Elf magic system in the Magic Burning section of the Magic Burner. ;)

Also, if possible could you guys update your Beliefs on the Wiki before Monday? I looked over your characters and here are some of my thoughts:

Eric/Talwyn
"Unity is Strength, the common folk have to realize that by coming together they can fight the plague." This is still listed as your 3rd belief. It's a good belief, but I think you're shorting your Artha-building ability since the story is in the Etharchy right now. Here are some thoughts for new beliefs (take 'em or leave 'em!):

1. The Elven nation is in civil war (thanks to you, mostly). Do you want to heal this rift? If so, how? How do you want the civil war to turn out? That would seem to be something Talwyn would Believe strongly about.

2. Camthalion escaped. You also know that he was a Raksha in disguise. While he hasn't done anything, obviously, directly against Talwyn, he was involved with insuring the possession of Talwyn's wife. That isn't exactly endearing. Does Talwyn want to do anything about that in terms of vengeance?

3. The Etharchy and the Empire have yet to renew their old treaty. Of course, with a civil war raging it is likely the Elves have other things on their minds. Still, it's something to think about. This is likely something Talwyn is still thinking about, but it is something he is thinking about right now or something to take care of later?

James/Brand
"Blackheart is a child of Ahuramazda, no less than anyone else. I shall help him redeem his soul by instructing him in the teachings of Ahuramazda."

"Sorcery is a perversion. I will convince Black to renounce it."

Both of these beliefs are fine taken individually, but together I think they are somewhat inefficient. Now I'm not saying change them, but they are both basically about the same goal: making Black more pious. I am not encouraging you to stop doing that, since I am of the opinion that the interplay between Brand and Black is good fun.

I do encourage you to combine these beliefs somehow. It seems to me that making Black a better believer is one belief, and the two above things are goals on the road to doing that. Maybe try to do one, and if that one is accomplished then move onto the other. Now if you do decide to combine those, and need a new belief here are some ideas.

1. Again, like with Talwyn, how do you want the Elven civil war to play out? Do you still want to push the Empire-Etharchy treaty?

2. No doubt that Talwyn and Black have informed you about Mastema (the demon possessing the Elven child in Camthalion's Citadel apartments). That now makes two daemons that you have encountered in the world. Ahura-Mazda assures you that two daemons is alot of daemons. Is this a problem that you want to pursue further?

3. Part of Brand's personality has been to expose followers of the Dark Powers. No doubt there are hidden members of the Cult of Ahriman amongst the Elf Loyalists. Is Brand interested in rooting them out?

Chris/Black
Actually all of Black's beliefs look good. I think you have probably updated them since the last game. Good job! Kudos points to you. Sadly Kudos points are not recognized by the Burning Wheel rules system, the United States Treasury Department, or the International Monetary Fund.

Also, any thoughts on what your characters will be pushing for on Monday night? Remember, the campaign will resume some time (a few weeks or a month) after the night the Citadel burned.

naetuir

11-23-2008, 09:23 AM

That makes a lot of sense. Thoughts on those guys? I was thinking about trying to burn up a White Elf magic system in the Magic Burning section of the Magic Burner. ;)

Also, if possible could you guys update your Beliefs on the Wiki before Monday? I looked over your characters and here are some of my thoughts:

...

Also, any thoughts on what your characters will be pushing for on Monday night? Remember, the campaign will resume some time (a few weeks or a month) after the night the Citadel burned.

While I did update my beliefs already, I just partially updated them again. I wanted to change the belief about the elven kingdom being rife with corruption to something more clear. I went with..

"I will purify the corrupt elven kingdom with flame"
Purging fires must be taken to the elves that choose the way of Kelija in order to restore order and balance to the once tranquil elven kingdom. The flame is a cleansing source, granted directly from Ahuramazda. A gift which he has granted to Blackheart in the form of sorcery, so that he might purify himself and pay penance for his crimes. He will serve Ahura Mazda's purpose.

I think this will definitely end up at odds with Brand (unless he decides that Black is right, and that his sorcery is a gift from Ahura Mazda, heavens forefend!).

As for what I'm looking to get out of this Monday: I'm looking for more sorcerous knowledge (surprise), particularly in the form that lost elven knowledge we talked about from the last time. That the white elves took with them. More, I'm also looking to burn some elves, and perhaps spend some time studying and/or training. Definitely wanna get Reading, Writing and Sword opened, along with Heretical Doctrine.

(BTW- with the demonically gifted bit, that's as good as it's going to get I think. It just doesn't sit well with me, either way. :) )