Question about Helping on Positioning tests

[jb.teller4]

So in my actual play thread -- Actual Play Link (http://burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6422#post63374)-- I mentioned that our groups first large fight was very lopsided in the players' favor because their opponents weren't good at Positioning and had really short weapons, meaning it was easy for the players to keep them out of range, while still being able to attack (whether at Lunging or Optimal, depending on their weapon).

Pseudoidiot gave the tip of having them Help each other on their Positioning tests. That made me realize I'm not exactly sure how it works.

My understanding is that Helping is done when only one character is rolling and the other character(s) effectively use their action to give a Helping dice. I just reread the section in the BW book and that seems to be accurate, though I could be missing something.

But I also see several references (like Helping each other on Positioning tests) that sound like it's done in addition to the character's own action.

If Helping requires your action, would that mean that the characters Helping another character Position don't position themselves and "Let 'Em Come"?

If you can Help your allies on Positioning tests while still Positioning yourself, what's the limitations? I'm assuming that every character can't Help every ally on every Positioning test (at least I hope not as it wouldn't have helped the situation in the the fight I referenced above).
Can you only Help one ally? Can you Help any allies you can justify in the narrative? Is there some other criteria I'm missing?

Thanks in advance for any responses. I expect it's simple and I'm overcomplicating it... :)

-John B.

[Aramis]

"Where'd he go?"
"Look out, he's over there!" <Points>
"Check your 6, Buddy!"
"Got 'im."

For some, that exchange might be enough to warrant the helping die.

[luke]

Whoa there, cowboy.

Positioning is not an action. It's positioning. So you all help each other with the positioning test -- generally, this means you're all scripting the same positioning intent -- and then you all take your individual actions as per the standard rules.

It doesn't cost an action to help. You just have to be doing something helpful at the same time.

-L

[gooderguy]

the way we play helping during positionings is to have the helping characters position as a group. have character with the lowest exponent roll the positioning. add the highest obstacle modifier for any character in the group (say someone is on his knees, or has a superficial wound, etc.)

also, if ALL the characters in one group have a higher reflex, or a higher speed modifier (humans vs. dwarves), or a longer weapon (spears vs. swords) than ALL the characters in the opposing group, then they can also get a bonus die for reflex, weapon length, and/or speed modifier, but only if ALL the characters in one group are higher in any of those categories.

after you decide the character with the lowest exponent (after all the wound penalties, etc.), then add one helping die from each member of the group helping positioning with a speed exp 4 or below, and two helping die for members with exp 5 or higher.

Note: positioning as a group only works if the intent for the positioning for the group is the same. (all maintaining, all closing, or all withdrawing) if one character scripts a different positioning intent, have them roll seperately, without giving or recieveing any helping die

[jb.teller4]

Thanks to everyone -- that really helped.

-John B.

[MadJay]

I'd like to go a bit further still with this - w/o hijacking it.

I'm all in for group positioning, we do this in my game quite often.
But say we move on to resolving actions, is there no more help at this point? Every PC/NPC acts alone? 3 blokes decide to lock a dude, does each bloke have to script and roll, or can they help each other and dogpile on the dude?
I've been allowing Help for combat actions..."to reduce handling time". Am I wrong? is this a bad thing?

[stormsweeper]

We've allowed help for things like Locks and Pushes, but not for Strikes and other weapon-related actions.

We also use a special rule (no catchy name yet) that you can generally only have one person helping you, unless everyone has a trait (e.g. Pack Hunter) or training skill (e.g. Formation Fighting). This was done after some really rapid advances in Perception and Speed from having a half dozen people working as a "unit" in Range and Cover and thereby generating a lot of low-risk challenging tests for the helpers.

[Trithemius]

We also use a special rule (no catchy name yet) that you can generally only have one person helping you, unless everyone has a trait (e.g. Pack Hunter) or training skill (e.g. Formation Fighting). This was done after some really rapid advances in Perception and Speed from having a half dozen people working as a "unit" in Range and Cover and thereby generating a lot of low-risk challenging tests for the helpers.

Good idea stormsweeper, I was just about to ask "Where do the various training skills come into this?".