Low gray reflexes

[Submarine]

So the thought occurred to me. Could it be possible to "split" a grey Reflexes action to two black ones? This might seem pointless at first, even downgrading, but consider a situation where the character just needs quantity over quality. Perhaps he's fighting against something he can't kill or incapacitate fast, and that thing has higher black reflexes. Even though he has grey reflexes, and more actions, he cannot really choose when to use each one.

So, if I have a G4 Reflexes character fighting against, say, B6 Reflexes character, and he has either good armor or some other reason why I simply can't script "block and strike" actions or similar against him, and he's going to kill me fast, could I split a gray action to two blacks and match his strikes with defences, essentially moving a bit slower to make sure I'm not just waving a sword at him faster and getting killed simply because he swings between those ultra-fast moves undeterred?

Whew, that was a convoluted question. I hope it makes sense.

[Daniel H.]

Sub, you're identifying the trade any character makes taking a gray ability without a high exponent--a better chance to succeed at tests rather than the ability to roll more dice and hit higher obstacles (or, in your case, take more actions).

Gray dice earned in play are awesome, because all those tests mean you usually have a high exponent to go with the lower target number by the time you shade-shift. Gray dice at character creation, on the other hand, can end up being a hindrance as often as they are advantageous.

[Sam W]

Actually, a Grey Reflexes grants you two actions per point of reflexes, as opposed to one, if I remember correctly. Meaning Grey Reflexes is very, VERY deadly. I don't have my books with me, but I think this is in the Monster Burner.

[Submarine]

Yeah, it does, but those two actually happen in one action. That's why it's more deadly than having just double the reflex (although both are very deadly). So for every action of your opponent, you can script two that happen DURING his one. If his first scripted action is "Strike", you could have scripted "Block, strike", blocked his action and struck him back in one action.

The problem is that while it's very, very deadly, you can literally kill someone before he even knows it, it's still one action. If you have very low grey reflexes and can't kill him, you can't block either, even though you're super fast when you move. In essence, all your actions include two actions.

[Sam W]

Sorry, I think I misunderstood your initial question. It seems we're both on the same page then.

[Sempiternity]

I think my only response to anything with Grey Reflexes (and thus Grey Per, Ag, & Speed!) is to Run & Scream... No need to script! ;)

[Submarine]

So very true. This was more of a theoretical question at best, I've never actually seen grey Reflexes in my group. And I guess it won't really come up too often even if they are in play, more probably the heroic character just smashes the puny mortals to a pulp :twisted:

[pseudoidiot]

I wonder how deadly the guy with B6 reflexes really is. Because here's how I see it.

G4 reflexes means you're going to have 4 unopposed actions, because of the 4 extra actions you get for having Grey Reflexes, whereas your opponent is only going to have 2 actions where you won't be acting. That's an advantage already.

Not to mention, like Sempiternity mentions, the Grey Perception, Agility, and Speed that it took to make Reflexes are going to be pretty advantageous as well.

EDIT:

So very true. This was more of a theoretical question at best, I've never actually seen grey Reflexes in my group. And I guess it won't really come up too often even if they are in play, more probably the heroic character just smashes the puny mortals to a pulp :twisted:Oh, yes. Grey Reflexes are SCARY. We fought a minor demon a couple sessions ago, and I'm pretty sure all his stats were Grey. It was pretty brutal.

[Sempiternity]

Oh, yes. Grey Reflexes are SCARY. We fought a minor demon a couple sessions ago, and I'm pretty sure all his stats were Grey. It was pretty brutal.

Oh, i forgot about Daemons! Maybe this isn't such a theoretical question after all... no.. it has a G11 MW. No way your'e fighting that.

Of course, i say that knowing full well that BWHQ, Judd, and Rachel's games have all features opposition of that scale... I have no idea how their players managed to handle it, though! ;)

[Submarine]

I wonder how deadly the guy with B6 reflexes really is. Because here's how I see it.

G4 reflexes means you're going to have 4 unopposed actions, because of the 4 extra actions you get for having Grey Reflexes, whereas your opponent is only going to have 2 actions where you won't be acting. That's an advantage already.

Not to mention, like Sempiternity mentions, the Grey Perception, Agility, and Speed that it took to make Reflexes are going to be pretty advantageous as well.


Hmmh, that's true. Guess the inexperience with grey stats (as a whole, really, my group actually likes playing black shades. Funny people) got me thinking a heroic character with low grey reflexes actually has a disadvantage.
Hmmh, actually, if he wants, the enemy gets only one free action in. He can use his last action in the exchange to set a block or an avoid, I believe.

[stormsweeper]

Another thing to consider: a G4 Reflexes guy can keep rescripting around his opponent by burning those "extra" actions. BRUTAL.

[pseudoidiot]

Oh, i forgot about Daemons! Maybe this isn't such a theoretical question after all... no.. it has a G11 MW. No way your'e fighting that.

Gray Mortal Wound, yeah, but his Superficial and Light were Black-shade. Between one PC beating on the it with a spirit weapon and my character locking it, we managed to take it down.

[Sempiternity]

Gray Mortal Wound, yeah, but his Superficial and Light were Black-shade. Between one PC beating on the it with a spirit weapon and my character locking it, we managed to take it down.

I'm impressed! I just keep looking at the MoBu entries, then at my player's character sheets and thinking "no way"... ;)

Though, I'm going to get to use zombies/mummies this time, at least!

[stormsweeper]

Gray Mortal Wound, yeah, but his Superficial and Light were Black-shade. Between one PC beating on the it with a spirit weapon and my character locking it, we managed to take it down.


Is your character Resistant to Fire or something?

[Daniel H.]

Actually, a Grey Reflexes grants you two actions per point of reflexes, as opposed to one, if I remember correctly. Meaning Grey Reflexes is very, VERY deadly. I don't have my books with me, but I think this is in the Monster Burner.
I had to look up this rule myself after seeing how off-base my first response was. See page 255 of the brown book for information on gray Reflexes, although I believe there is some more about them in the Monster Burner.

I'll go back to being quiet now (but at least I learned some things from this thread).

[pseudoidiot]

Is your character Resistant to Fire or something?No, but I think the wording of the demon skin trait (or whatever it is) specifically mentioned flesh contact with the demon, or something. Since I had armor on, the GM allowed me an armor roll as long as I was keeping him in a lock. Hopefully that was right, since I'm sure we'll be facing that particular character again.

[Kublai]

I'd say the character gets no protection from Demon Flames. I know that's the way Luke plays it.

Funnily enough, my first BW hero once fought a Greater Demon. In one exchange, he took 16 Superficial wounds, half of them from uncontested strikes, the other from the fire damage.