Gamer Years

[luke]

Can I ask a favor? In the interest of fruitful, honest discussion can I ask that participants on this forum do not state how long they've been gaming as presage to any point or argument?

Please?

I feel that quoting years is counterproductive. First, BW is a different enough experience that all of your gamer years are probably getting in the way rather than helping. Second, there's a subtext to the process that seems to say, "I've been gaming longer than you, therefore I know better." And we all know that this just isn't the case.

I know everyone here uses their gamer years in the best possible light, but it drives me crazy.

So no more telling us how long you've been gaming in the BW, BE or MG forums. If you want to talk about that stuff in the Chatterer or on Nerdnyc.com or Story-Games.com, be my guest, but please no more here!

Thanks,
-L

[Aramis]

Please, sticky this!

[luke]

I plan on it. I'm hoping we can get some Hallelujahs. If not, I'm going to have to take more drastic measures.

[zabieru]

Amen brother!

I've been guilty myself, but it just never goes anywhere worth going.

[vikingmonkey]

An anecdote if I may (Hallelujah, by the way): A friend I was trying to introduce BW to wanted to borrow the books to give them a read through before our character burn session. No problem, I thought. He comes back the next day, "Let it Ride [amongst other grievances he had] is broken." I told him that he should just wait and see how things work out in play. He tells me, "I've been playing for many more years than you, I can tell how a game will play by reading the book." Needless to say, I don't associate with him anymore. So, yes, I whole-heartedly agree with this.

[BobSlaughter]

Can I ask a favor? In the interest of fruitful, honest discussion can I ask that participants on this forum do not state how long they've been gaming as presage to any point or argument?

Please?
OK, as one who did that recently, no problem.


I feel that quoting years is counterproductive. First, BW is a different enough experience that all of your gamer years are probably getting in the way rather than helping.

In some (most?) cases yes, but in some ways Burning Wheel was the game I wanted back in the early 80's, when we were crippled with rules-layering (More is Better!) and such, when I wanted a story to unfold. Luke, if you get access to a way-back machine and get some extra cycles on it, send me a copy please?


Second, there's a subtext to the process that seems to say, "I've been gaming longer than you, therefore I know better." And we all know that this just isn't the case.
Point granted.


I know everyone here uses their gamer years in the best possible light, but it drives me crazy.

So no more telling us how long you've been gaming in the BW, BE or MG forums. If you want to talk about that stuff in the Chatterer or on Nerdnyc.com or Story-Games.com, be my guest, but please no more here!

But I'm proud of being ancient! :)
I do wonder if I'm the oldest one on here.

[luke]

Bob, feel free to get a gamer years thread going in the chatterer! I just don't want it to be a feature in every discussion we have here.

[Paul B]

I'm telling you, youth is wasted on the young.

*shakes wrinkled fist impotently, returns to game of Bocce*

p.

[Justin in Oz]

No worries on the gamer years. It is more or less an ad hominem attack (or in some cases a de hominem defence), therefore has nothing to do with the substance of the factual argument. It should be stamped out as an illegal scripted action in the duel of wits. ;)

What made me lagugh was that when I opened the topic, I was expecting something comparing gamer years to "dog years" or "cat years".

So are "gamer years" longer or shorter than normal human years? Should it be measured on how much real time passes during one year of game time?

[Kublai]

Hey, Luke. I've been writing on internet forums for over 16 years and never has anyone tried to clamp down on this before. I think you're crazy.

[luke]

Hm. Since 1993, eh? Except that you didn't even have a computer until, what? 1999 at the earliest. I don't think you had internet in your apartment until 2004.

[Aramis]

Luke's a professional game designer, and lives in NYC... both are proof positive he's crazy.

But he has a point... often, it is presented as a proof in itself. He doesn't like that, and it is his BBS. I've seen a lot of it, going back to my WWIVNet days... Someties, it does have merit... more often, it's wasted bandwidth.

Damn, how I miss .QWK packets!

[johnstone]

Hm. Since 1993, eh? Except that you didn't even have a computer until, what? 1999 at the earliest. I don't think you had internet in your apartment until 2004.

Damn, arguing on the internet without owning a computer. That's impressive!

[technomonkey]

I'm telling you, youth is wasted on the young.

*shakes wrinkled fist impotently, returns to game of Bocce*

p.

Are you implying that Bocce is an old man sport? :(

[Paul B]

Are you implying that Bocce is an old man sport? :(

I couldn't remember how to spell Mah Jongg at the time.

p.

[Dwight]

I couldn't remember how to spell Mah Jongg at the time.

p.
I see. (http://www.alzheimer.ca/english/disease/warningsigns.htm)

P.S. Luke, even if it's to say "I wasn't even born yet when I started playing RPGs...in waist-deep snow....uphill...both ways. All that did for me getting into BWR was start me in a deeper hole"? :D

[luke]

Dwight,
Even if.

[Z-Dog]

Hallelujah.

"I've been playing since 1979. 30 years, son."

"But how many years is that in gamer years?"

[johnstone]

For what it's worth, my first decade of gaming (roughly age 11-21) taught me way more about dysfunctional group dynamics than it did anything about gaming or how to read a game text.

[AnyaTheBlue]

...even if it's to say "I wasn't even born yet when I started playing RPGs...in waist-deep snow....uphill...both ways. All that did for me getting into BWR was start me in a deeper hole"?

Well, of course, WE had it tough... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13JK5kChbRw)

[rafial]

Has anyone worked out a conversion chart from gamer years to dog years?

[Aramis]

It's a non-linear progression...

See, gamers age normally to about 14, then slow way down, about 3:1 with people... so it takes 17 people years to get an age 15 equivalent gamer... ;)

Dogs are a nice steady 7:1....

[naetuir]

I don't think gamers age on the same time line!

I usually find that the beginning gamer age is directly related to their current age, and then their gamer-age begins to go de-age (go backwards) as time move forward!

For instance, a person that begins gaming at 14 starts at the gamer age of 14 and slowly reverts to a baby the more time passes. So by the time they're 28, they're usually around 1 year old in gamer terms. ;)

[Dwight]

I don't think gamers age on the same time line!

I usually find that the beginning gamer age is directly related to their current age, and then their gamer-age begins to go de-age (go backwards) as time move forward!

For instance, a person that begins gaming at 14 starts at the gamer age of 14 and slowly reverts to a baby the more time passes. So by the time they're 28, they're usually around 1 year old in gamer terms. ;)
You misunderstand but an easy mistake to make. By then he's into his 70's in gamer years! Crotchety, set in his ways, borderline senile, and totally at ease with crapping in his pants at the table. He just seems like he's a toddler.

Now if you'll excuse me I must be getting back home to the mausoleum. If don't get there before sun-up my dice turn to dust.

[naetuir]

You misunderstand but an easy mistake to make. By then he's into his 70's in gamer years! Crotchety, set in his ways, borderline senile, and totally at ease with crapping in his pants at the table. He just seems like he's a toddler.

Amen.

[David Artman]

(Damn, Kub--you beat me to it!)

Luke, I've been posting on BBSes and forums for 22 years, and I doubt just asking will get anyone to do something so considerate.

You have the power, of course, to edit posts, if you think it's worthwhile.

And what about threads in which someone is seeking, say, advice about gaming practices or something not Burning-Foo-specific? Surely then, experience matter?

(Note that I don't care either way; but appeal to authority--one's own or another sage's--is a hard habit to break.)

[luke]

Hi David,

There are three reasons to abide by this request:
1) I asked nicely.
2) It enhances the discussion here on these forums, makes it more valuable
3) It's now forum policy.

Thanks!

[Odie]

Given that I've never seen it employed (here, or elsewhere -- RPG.net, I'm looking at you) as anything but gamer-cred one-upmanship, I'm totally on board with this policy.

But that may be because I've only been gaming for half a dozen years. ;)

-B

[stormsweeper]

Luke, I've been posting on BBSes and forums for 22 years,

In my day, bulletin boards were made from cork, and 300 bawds were the start of a very good night.

[Fourth Horseman]

I know everyone here uses their gamer years in the best possible light, but it drives me crazy.


Yeah, amen ... almost as annoying as having the "I wrote blah, blah, blah books" bomb dropped on you in an argument ...

Or the, I have a degree in yadda, yadda, yadda ...

If you can't argue the point convincingly without reffering to your "cred" you have already lost the argument ... the exception of course being "attica" cred:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYl9nNIoz8o

[naetuir]

Or the, I have a degree in yadda, yadda, yadda ...

...*cringe*...

That's the most irritating one to me.

There was someone I worked with at my last job that expect everyone to revere him for the only reason that he had an MBA. Like it was some kind of a magical scepter that caused him to glow with the majesty of the sun. And due to his majesty, his logic was always infallible.

[jchokey]

Can I ask a favor? In the interest of fruitful, honest discussion can I ask that participants on this forum do not state how long they've been gaming as presage to any point or argument?

I'm down with it.

Just curious-- what about stating how long you've been playing BW specifcally? Permitted? Or verboten?

[luke]

Unless you're a newbie wanting to out, I prefer not.

[jchokey]

Unless you're a newbie wanting to out, I prefer not.

OK, I think I can avoid that. Thanks for clarifying.

[luke]

I think if we all focus on responding honestly to the heart of each post, we won't need to announce our level. And rather than just stating a number, I'd much rather people offer, "In my last campaign..." or "In our session last night..."

Also: I find that people who have run a single campaign often discount their valuable experience -- because they haven't been running for years. I think that's bullshit! Some one who's run a BW campaign has insight to offer!

[EarthenForge]

I think if we all focus on responding honestly to the heart of each post, we won't need to announce our level. And rather than just stating a number, I'd much rather people offer, "In my last campaign..." or "In our session last night..."

That sounds wonderful.
I know I've made the mistake of substituting some gaming vets judgment for my own good instincts and been burned (but not in that good BW way), so I'm quite happy about this.

[Clyde Rhoer]

I've been gaming for 30+ years and I was sure this thread was done three pages ago.

[Drozdal]

I've been gaming for 30+ years and I was sure this thread was done three pages ago.
So what happened in your last BW campaing or on your last BW session, Clyde? ;)

[Timespike]

Message received. I never really used "gamer years" anyway, other than just as a bit of trivia; my gaming has been so sporadic for some years and so regular for others that I'd have to do math to get an accurate number. Complicated math. Boring math.

I have better things to do.

[Clyde Rhoer]

So what happened in your last BW campaing or on your last BW session, Clyde? ;)

I blew my game master's mind when I voluntarily went with the slavers so I could bring god to them.

[Rafe]

Also: I find that people who have run a single campaign often discount their valuable experience -- because they haven't been running for years. I think that's bullshit! Some one who's run a BW campaign has insight to offer!

Definitely. We learn by doing... but also by screwing up. Personally, I find screw-ups invaluable. A first-time BW/BE/MG GM can also offer a whole new perspective (largely unbiased) and makes people think: "Oh... I remember doing that. Waitasec. Do I still do that? Hmmm..." Etc.

:smile:

[Dwight]

Now that we've got this all straight can we please extend this rule to cover the entirety of the Internet. K thx.


*sigh*

[Clyde Rhoer]

If we do that how will I be able to prove my points anymore?