The Birth of a New Game

[Skari-dono]

Greetings, ladies and gents!

I have recently gotten my hands on Burning Wheel. I intend to GM for my table top group soon, but before then we intend to finish the system we're trying now and then test another system. Frankly, I don't think I want to wait that long before starting a game of Burning Wheel.

What I want to do is to make a PbP game here online. I want to use much of the ideals presented in the books. For example, I have nothing planned; I have no plot, no setting, no nothing. I'd like you, the players, to help me decide around what the world revolves, much like Burning Wheel suggests. This is my first time doing that, so I'm not sure yet how that turns out.

What I do have are the Burning Wheel, Character Burner and Monster Burner books, so I'm afraid I will have to limit your choices to these three books. I don't really mind if you use the Magic Burner if you can explain whatever you use from it to me.

Before we go any further, is there anyone interested?

[Owen]

I'd definitely be interested in a PbP game.

[Jim]

I'd be interested. Good luck!

[DaGreatJL]

I am down like Charlie Brown.

[Skari-dono]

Great :D

This is my first time GMing (or even playing) BW so I'm not sure how you want to go on about this, but what I was thinking was to hear some of your ideas and throw in some of mine.

What I'd need to know from you is a thing or two about how you want this game to be played: Heavy or light on combat (Fight! or Bloody Versus); Heavy or light on the social side (Duel of Wits or versus tests); High, medium or low fantasy (any stock, limited stock, or only man characters; sorcery or not); and anything else you might think of. What you won't mention, I'll fill in with my ideas if you accept them.

I was also thinking of allowing you to make up the society of the stock you choose to play as. So the player of the dwarf gets to create the dwarvish society and the player of the elf gets to create the elvish society. If your idea of a society is at odds with another player's society, such as the dwarves at war with the elves, you'll need the other player's consent. Two players using the same stock need to agree on the society together. Of course, you don't need to do this or all of it; you could just say "it's like in LotR" or "the rest is your call" and I'll be just as happy. It's just if you want to change something or make something yourself.

This is just an idea. I thought it might be cool if the players would create the world they're it since it's they who are in it and should be familiar with it.

As for Lifepaths, I was thinking allowing you to choose from 1 to 5 of those. If you want to play a child or a very young character, I won't say "no" but I don't think I will recommend it. You can of course use Character Burner or Monster Burner to create your character, but I am afraid those are the only books I have (along with the core mechanical book).

Am I making any sense? Am I making to much out of this? Too many rules? Just tell me if I need to back down a little.

[Owen]

I'm leaning towards playing a human. I've been reading a lot of Artesia comics in the last couple of days so I'm thinking Age of Plate technology coupled with war, politicking, and freaky religions.

I'd love to see the social aspects of the game prominent and, in my mind, it won't be medieval times without a couple stabbings. I could go either way in terms of the level of magic/fantasy.
As for Fight! vs Bloody versus tests, I'm thinking that Bloody versus might be easier most of the time since we're not sitting around the same table. For big fights however, we should definitely break out the scripting sheets.

[elgorade]

I'm interested if you think you can take another.

Skari-domo, I think opening up to what the players are looking for is a great way to start the game. You just can't forget that you're a player too and the situation and characters have to excite you as well. So if there are some things you either really want to try or really don't want to get into right yet, tell people.

That said, I love the idea of asking "Hit me with some good characters and lets see what other thoughts come up." :D

I would focus on versus tests first and break out fight! or DoW when there is something really big.

[Skari-dono]

You're welcome to join in if you like, there's still room :D
If you have any preferences, just let me know. I intend to come up with some stuff myself but I will mostly be filling in the gaps that you guys leave behind :)

Owen: I'm afraid I haven't read the Artesia comics and I'm not familiar with "Age of Plate". Call me a stupid Icelander if you will :p
Also, to be on the safe side, when you say freaky religion do you mean creepy or just plain weird? Like a masochistic cult that sacrifices their own flesh and others' to their evil god of pain, or a cult of the spaghetti monster?

[elgorade]

Also, to be on the safe side, when you say freaky religion do you mean creepy or just plain weird? Like a masochistic cult that sacrifices their own flesh and others' to their evil god of pain, or a cult of the spaghetti monster?

Just to be clear, I would prefer the former to the later in the game. :D Though if I personally have to meet a cultist I prefer the later to the former.

A character idea I had is the guardian of an obscure shrine. Not Faithful and not a priest.
Maybe a former soldier if I can fit it into the life paths to end at Custodian in the religious setting.

Obviously something would have to make the shrine or its contents of some importance now. Perhaps someone is looking for a relic to bolster his claim to a throne. Or there is an invasion and the relic could inspire the people to resistance. Or perhaps there is something that could be used magically there which attracts supernatural attention. Exactly what would probably need some tie in with what other players are interested in.

[elgorade]

On a totally different idea, a Great Wolf could be cool. I'm not sure about a fully Wolf game, but one in a group of humanoids might work if we expected much of the story to be in less civilized areas.

[Skari-dono]

If you want to be a guardian to a shrine, there are two things that need considering:

A) The game would probably be localized so there wouldn't be much travelling. That would mean the "dangers" would come from the outside.

B) If the game would involve travelling, the most obvious reason for a shrine guardian to join the ride is because he/she is retrieving something the shrine lost.

Neither is a must or problamatic, just wanted you to understand the situation when you make your characters.

Of course, a Great Wolf would be very cool addition :D

[Jim]

I put up a fairly substantial post last night, but the board 'ate' it, so here's the reconstructed post.

For character stock, I'd suggest either everyone plays one stock (Mannish?) or everyone comes from different stock/culture. The reason for this would be to help develop characters in play thru compare & contrast with the other characters.

I think the idea of having players provide details on their stock's culture is a good one - lets go with that.

I also agree with everyone so far that it'll be easier to use VS. tests for most things, and just break out DOW and Fight! for the most dramatically important conflicts.

I'd also favor having low to no magic/sorcery, mostly to cut down on the complexity of the game for a new GM by reducing the amount of sub-systems knowledge needed to play. (Spoke-wise, Sorcery?)

Regarding combat heavy/combat light play - I guess what I'd want to see is for combat to be an option, but not the only option if that makes sense? I think that puts me towards the combat-light side of the scale...

War & Politics sounds cool.

The 5 LIfepath cap sounds good, and I'd say lets use the 'default caps' on attributes. (Which is nominally d6?)

Like Skari, I'm also unfamilar with Artesia, and I'm not sure my personal definition of 'Age of Plate' is the same as Owen's...

Elgorade's reminder that the GM is a player too should also be noted. I'd almost say lets just brainstorm a little about things as a group of 'just players' than as 'players & GM'?

Having written all this, one character concept I'm toying with would be a mercenary Captain, drawing on the film Flesh and Blood (with Rutger Hauer) and the novel The Warhound and the Worlds Pain, by Michael Moorcock.

Cheers,
J

[Owen]

I was using age of plate to mean 15th-16th century European technology and aesthetic.

As for 'freaky religion', I was thinking the religion in our setting should be more 'pagan' (loaded word, I know). I'm envisioning something along the lines of early renaissance Europe if Christianity had never become the dominant religion. There could be a variety of deities and cults and religious practices would be heavy on sacrifice (usually animal). I like the idea of a no magic setting where the people believe in magic and are very superstitious.

The character I'm toying with is the bastard son of a knight who is a herald in the retinue of his father's lord. He hates his dad and wants to show he's the better man.

Jim: I took a look at the "War Hound and the World's Pain" article on wikipedia and it said that the character in question was a freethinker. Was that something you were planning to explore with your character? It could be fun to have humanism and rationalism play against religion and superstition.

Skari: We haven't heard what kind of game/setting you'd like to run.

[elgorade]

I like the idea of a no magic setting where the people believe in magic and are very superstitious.


Presumably that's a vote for human only. Much as I like the great wolf idea, I think I probably agree. I'm not sure I like totally no magic though. I would rather leave it slightly open that there may be some magic (after all, people do believe) it just isn't at all usual.

If your bastard is a herald, perhaps he could be part of an expedition to the shrine of a warrior saint. Maybe an alliance of some kind is going to be concluded there. That could help to bring in a number of people with conflicting goals.

[Jim]

Cool, yeah, if 'Age of Plate' = ~ "15th-16th century European technology and aesthetic.", I am totally down with you - Renaissance, Post Dark-Ages, Pre-Enlightenment age, defined but flexible. And I'll do search on Artesia, should've done so before.

Magic: I'm with Elgorade to 'leave it slightly open that there may be some magic'. How about: It's not common, rare even, but it does exist? Some people don't believe in it, and some people believe in it but don't really understand how it 'really' works - and maybe a few people can actually access those kinds of powers.

Maybe no 'magic-user' PCs*? I'm kindof ripping a few pages from old-school Pendragon here, but this keeps magic in the superstiton/folklore/arcane (by definiton) category, and still allows magic to inform the game, which I think would be cool. My thought here is that magic = the things that can't be rationally explained... S-D can bring in Sorcerers or magic elements as he sees fit, but it's an unknown factor to the PCs and world at large? (I don't want to go Call of Cthulu, but it occurs to me that one tangent of play would be for the PCs to experience, explore and maybe master the occult arts. I'm thinking classical alchemy, Faust, The Ninth Gate film, that kind of thing..)

And this colliding with the politics and warring' ala '16th century Italy and the Condottieri' and the 'Thirty Years war in 17th Century Germany'?

And then we throw in the 'alternate history spin' of 'renaissance Europe if Christianity had never become the dominant religion'? Like, what if all the various 'pagan cults', from Mithras to 'the local deity of the people who live within a 30k radius of villa X' had been left to evolve?

Owen, I actually hadn't caught the freethinker theme! But yeah, Warhound is really all about the clash between those two worldviews. And I now see that Flesh and Blood is about that to a degree as well, as it's really about Feudalism/Caste society vs. Free/Opportunistic society. Thanks for the focus!

It wasn't primary in my mind to play humanism and rationalism against religion and superstition, but if y'all are cool with those themes, I'm happy to explore that. That seems like a goldmine for Beliefs!

Also, are you guys talking FtF or via IM or something? I'm totally out of the loop regarding the 'bastard herald' and 'shrine guardian' concept references. So I'll refrain from commenting there.

Finally, I'd be up for a Great Wolf game too . I'm kinda 'smoldering' with the 'age of plate - belief vs. reason' 'sparks' right now, (and I'm not sure it's the best 'training scenario' game for S-D to gain his footing with BW) but a Great Wolves game would be nice. Maybe we could do that too, either now, or later?

*At least no characters start with Sorcery. I'd say nonone starts with Faith either, unless that screws Owen's concept or something? We would, however, need to agree on some guidelines for gaining Gifted/Faithful and the associated skills or whatever in play somehow, if that's something we want to explore.

[elgorade]

Also, are you guys talking FtF or via IM or something? I'm totally out of the loop regarding the 'bastard herald' and 'shrine guardian' concept references. So I'll refrain from commenting there.


Nope, just what you've read here.

Given the thoughts above, I think I could try to put the shrine guardian in the broad area of spiritualist and also individualist. He wouldn't be a learned man, so he isn't set to debate theology.

Per the recent thread in another forum, he might be set to try to earn 'Faithful' in play. That might even shape one of his beliefs, but I wouldn't really expect to see it happen. Definitely of the camp that there is something more out there -- and not always that far away -- than what the rationalists describe.

[Skari-dono]

My personal oppinion on the setting?

I personally love how the stocks are portraited in BW so I'm all up for multiple stock game. Heck, if you want to play a monster character I'm not one to say no.

Since we are speaking about religion and stuff, I like the idea of a Pagan society. In fact, I got an idea about invaders of a different religion (something like Christianity) that intends to "save" or "purge" the non-believers.

Depending on how long we will be playing, we could mix together a localized game and a travelling game. I don't know.

I don't see how a world that believes in magic rather than religion would automatically exclude anything but the Man-stock, but if you prefer it that way I won't protest.

As for sorcery, I'm thinking something like sorcerers are very rare and you can call yourself lucky if you meet one your entire life. Meeting two is like finding a hen with teeth. Faith would be a weapon of the opposing force, but if you believe in pagan gods you could probably have Faith as well but I think it might be limited or strengthened somehow. Like Murgath, a pagan god of battles, would increase Ob by +1 (or +2) on all miracles that heal or mend but gives a +1D (or +2D) to all miracles that involve battles or destruction. Something like that.

[elgorade]

I don't see how a world that believes in magic rather than religion would automatically exclude anything but the Man-stock, but if you prefer it that way I won't protest.


I was saying that if there is no magic or it is very rare, that tends to limit us to human stock. Most of the other races are fairly explicitly magical. I guess their magical elements could be reduced and explained as being not magic, just "how they are". Anyway, I'm certainly up for more than just human stock, though I think it makes it tougher to get all the characters involved in the same thing.




Like Murgath, a pagan god of battles, would increase Ob by +1 (or +2) on all miracles that heal or mend but gives a +1D (or +2D) to all miracles that involve battles or destruction. Something like that.

Adding 2D towards specific types of miracles is pretty kick-ass.

[Skari-dono]

I was saying that if there is no magic or it is very rare, that tends to limit us to human stock. Most of the other races are fairly explicitly magical.

I see your point. Guess I just misunderstood it the first time :p



Adding 2D towards specific types of miracles is pretty kick-ass.

Heh, it probably is too much. But then again, +2ob towards miracles of opposite elements is also pretty big penalty. Think on it; a warpriest could do some powerful miracles that focus on war, killing and destruction, but he would be in trouble when it comes down to healing his comrades. We could of course just forgo Faith all together. Personally I would want to include it.

[Owen]

I'm going to try to tie together some of the threads we've been talking about. Feel free to comment if I go in a direction that doesn't interest you.

We have a pagan, polytheistic society that is also fractured politically; city-states that are often at war, perhaps dukedoms and baronies and temple-governed lands. These lands are being invaded by a unified, monotheistic people. Maybe they've already landed and conquered some territory? The major players on the pagan side have come together at Elgorade's character's shrine to form an alliance against the invaders. But the pagans have been fighting each other for centuries and hate each other's guts.

I like the name "Murgath, god of battles". His cult should definitely play a part.

[elgorade]

I had been thinking of my character having been in the army before his "conversion". It might be interesting to have him start hating the merc captain and/or the leader of the group with the bastard herald. One or more of the leaders was surely involved in the rout of a battle where he last his arm. ( :D )

[Skari-dono]

I like the overview, although I wasn't thinking that the monotheists should necessarilly be a magnificent force. But I like it this way if no one protests.

This means you will have several goals to complete: You'll need to convince the pagan leaders to join forces against the enemy forces. You will then need to lead them to victory. Sounds simple enough. But perhaps they have a secret weapon, or perhaps a proof of their God's power. Perhaps it is something you'll need to deal with.

Of course, in between, there will be minor things you will need to finish. Perhaps the leaders won't attend the meeting and you'll need to find them individually and convince them to attend. Perhaps a sorcerer/priest has tricked one of the leaders into believing he can single handedly save them, and needs to be dealt with.

Of course, this monotheist religion won't be exactly like Christianity, nor will I call it that. Just wanted it out there in case someone was having problem with it.

I like your ideas. I think this will be a Mannish game and I have no problem with it, but I'd like to include the Orcs as some sort of horrible monsters that roam in the night. They won't have any connections to the elves (probably since there aren't any) but instead will be something more linked to the Men or some sickened pagan God. I want to know if there are any objections to this.

[DaGreatJL]

Wow, this is sounding like some great stuff!

I'm thinking I'd like to play on of the pagan priests, a servant of a god of storm and sacrifice, like Zeus and Odin rolled into one vicious jerk of a god. The priest would be something of a wild-eyed zealot, "touched by the gods" if you take my meaning.

Which brings up a question, how would we want to reflect the priesthood lifepath-wise? Do we want to fiddle at all, or do we think that the Religious setting as-is can reflect what we want?

On the topic of Faith, has anyone other than me read the Magic Burner? There's a chapter on religion, where it's suggested that different gods can be given different areas that they govern, and this then informs what Faithful priests can do. Like, Vulcan is the god of fire, the forge, and the harvest, and so someone with Faith in Vulcan could use it in ways that deal with those realms.

On a complete side topic, Jim, have you thought about how you would reflect your character lifepath-wise? Would you be going the double Freebooter to Captain route?

[elgorade]

I like your ideas. I think this will be a Mannish game and I have no problem with it, but I'd like to include the Orcs as some sort of horrible monsters that roam in the night. They won't have any connections to the elves (probably since there aren't any) but instead will be something more linked to the Men or some sickened pagan God. I want to know if there are any objections to this.

No problem with Orcs. Always good to have something to go bump in the night. And it gives you an excuse to play with wolves too.

[Skari-dono]

No problem with Orcs. Always good to have something to go bump in the night. And it gives you an excuse to play with wolves too.

What can I say? I really like the Orcs and the Great Wolves :D

Unfortunately, I have not read the Magic Burner and I'm beginning to feel bad about not ordering it with the other books. However, I was thinking about something like that so if you wouldn't mind giving me a small insight into the chapter that would really help in case you wanted to use it :)

Oh, and those of you who want to be serving a specific God or Gods might want to consider giving them names and perhaps even alternate names as well. Odin, for example, had many names. Just something you might want to consider. Of course, the rest of the pantheon can be given names as the game progresses, it won't matter this early.

[elgorade]

So it sounds like this must be a shrine at the site of the last battle of an ancient warrior-priest of Mugath. Perhaps on a hill at one end of a mountain valley.

I'm a bit stuck on what we want our names to sound like. So I'll refrain from naming my character or the hero for the moment. I definitely want a belief like:

B1. Lord X is an incompetent coward. I will have his apology for what he did to my unit at the Stone Bridge.

but I'm still working on others.

[Skari-dono]

So should we make a final recap?

This is a world of minor fantasy where pagan gods reign in the hearts of Men. The pagan lands are suffering from the attacks of a monotheist kingdom that wishes to purge the lands of the wicked. They are the servants of Lohim, a god that teaches his followers that the pagan gods are corruption that must be purged.
To make things worse, the occasional raids from the wretched darklings that live under the ground have left several villages in ruins. They are the Orcs, a name given to them from the ancient language that mean "filth". They are monsters, being given in to eternal lust and hunger for the human flesh.
You stand between the two. You know the only way to win the war against invasion of the Lohim faith is to unite the pagan kingdoms, dukedoms and baronies. The survival of your gods are in your own hands.

Am I forgetting something? Any protests? Anything you'd like to add? I'd like to have another run through your character concepts if you wouldn't mind. Post up your finished ideas so that I can have a more whole view over them.

[Jim]

Cool. I think that covers it for me, Skari.

I'll see what I can come up with to reach 'Mercenary Captain' in five lifepaths. Dunno if there's another route than with 'double freebooter' or not. And I'll work on formulating some beliefs from what we've got so far.

My thought at this point is the Captain will be the pragmatic realist who sees this conflict as being between Men... and nothing more, rather that taking it as an earthly reflection of some battle between 'our gods and their gods'. He might give lip-service to Mugath , but he's not actually pious by any means. More when I've got a better handle of the character's history, so it's off to the CB...

As far as naming conventions, do we want to use some kind of real world analog at least as far as the names go? The pagan guys could be ... dunno - germanic? and the monotheists ... moorish?

[Skari-dono]

As far as naming conventions, do we want to use some kind of real world analog at least as far as the names go? The pagan guys could be ... dunno - germanic? and the monotheists ... moorish?

There's a thought. I hadn't really thought of it. I like the idea though and I am sure I am going to make use of it, although I will probably run out of moorish names pretty quickly :p

I'm thinking something like Kalim al-Kazadh? So it may roughly be "translated" as Kalim son of Kazadh, so his son could be Acham al-Kalim. Sound good?

EDIT: Also, I doubt I will be too harsh if you need 6 LP to get the character you want for this game. 7 would be pushing it though. Oh, and exponent 6 max for starting characters, yes?

[elgorade]

EDIT: Also, I doubt I will be too harsh if you need 6 LP to get the character you want for this game. 7 would be pushing it though. Oh, and exponent 6 max for starting characters, yes?

Yes, 6 as a cap please. Maybe even take it down to 5 as far as I'm concerned.

It is always tempting to keep adding lifepaths. Doing so means you can reach the more "powerful" ending paths, and the characters can have more "twists" in their histories. I'm not sure it is a good idea though. Part of the goodness of BW is that it forces choices and another part is the focus on developing things in play rather than in backstory.

[Skari-dono]

I don't think I'm giving too much power to the players. The max is still 5 LP. However, if your character concept works best with 6 LP or if you really need 6 LP to play what you want, such as Captain unless he bases his experience through crime, I don't see that much problem with it.
Perhaps adding a penalty to it might balance it? I think I read somewhere about having only one hand, and I think that is enough.

I'm also allowing you to have fewer than 5 LP, but I don't recommend it. In the end, I'll just let you decide.

EDIT: Now that I've read the Lifepaths over again, it seems you can take the Captain LP from the Professional Soldier Setting by taking the Knight rout. It takes 5 LP: Born-, Page, Squire, Knight, Captain. Just to be on the safe side, I'm right in assuming there is no special Mercenary Captain LP that I'm missing?

[elgorade]

Please don't suggest 'missing a hand' as a penalty for having a 6th lifepath. I plan to have my character missing an arm and will be paying (a) trait points for the privilege.

[Skari-dono]

That's one thing I'm still trying to get, that you actually have to pay for such penalties and why some players actually do it. But hey, I'm still only new at this :p

And yeah, I see your point. 5 LP will stay the limit, no exceptions this time. I'll try to be more firm ;)

So we have a Mercenary Captain and a Shrine Guardian so far, am I forgetting something?

There are few more questions I'd like to ask you guys before we go on ahead and start:
First, do you have an oppinion on women's standing in the pagan community? Personally I like the idea that they are somewhat oppressed (not generally, only in the game), but I'm not sure if it would necessarily be accurate to a pagan society.
Second, seeing as I'm new at GMing BW, how much of the plot should I give you beforehand? I know that BW is very open when it comes to giving players spoilers, but how much is too much? Would you want to know beforehand that you are walking into a trap? Or that the Orcs have a sentry in the village you're heading towards? Or that the butler is actually the murderer?

And I wanted you to know that the pagan lands, as I see them, are divided into several kingdoms, dukedoms and baronies, most of which are independant of each other. Some are possibly even at war. The cultural differences are minimal to none, so they won't matter statistically. But it would be nice if you could include the name of the land which you come from in your character description.

[Jim]

Yeah, 'mercenary' in this case is just a descriptive adjective.

Now that I've actually looked closely at the requirements to get to Captain, I don't need more that 5 LPs to do the character. Just hadn't referenced the requirements when I tossed out the concept. (Less than 5 would be tough, as the most direct routes I'm seeing are: Born Something, Bandit, Freebooter, Freebooter, Captain and the Born Noble, Page, Squire, Knight, Captain.)

I'm probably going with Born Noble, Page, Squire, Lord -> Captain, which gives a decent group of skills and gives me a goodly pool of Resource Points to use to detail the Company a bit.

(On the Great Wolf note, I'm thinking maybe we have a 'platoon' of some 'Berserker' type guys who worship 'the Wolf Spirits' or something?)

Cheers,

[elgorade]

That's one thing I'm still trying to get, that you actually have to pay for such penalties and why some players actually do it. But hey, I'm still only new at this :p

:) I agree it is often a sticking point. Basically I pay for it because it will pay me later.

I was wondering why my former foot soldier changed his life and became an acolyte and then a semi-hermit. Aha! Because he lost most of his arm in his first major battle. Now he can't stand in the shield wall, so he got turned out of the 'army'.

During play, if the trait gets in my way -- and it should occasionally since I am basically telling you that it should by buying it -- I get artha for it. Probably not much, but still...

[Aramis]

That's one thing I'm still trying to get, that you actually have to pay for such penalties and why some players actually do it. But hey, I'm still only new at this :p


Because they are artha mines.

Playing them is what earns you the Embodiment persona. Reminding the GM when it sends the story in new ways gets you fate.

[elgorade]

Second, seeing as I'm new at GMing BW, how much of the plot should I give you beforehand? I know that BW is very open when it comes to giving players spoilers, but how much is too much? Would you want to know beforehand that you are walking into a trap? Or that the Orcs have a sentry in the village you're heading towards? Or that the butler is actually the murderer?


I'm not an expert, having never run more than a single session of BW in a row. I believe that most of the 'plot' should be at least initially drawn from the situation set up in character burning and the PCs Beliefs, Instincts, Relationships and Affiliations. The beliefs and instincts are indications of things the PCs want to see happen -- for example a belief along the lines of "I will find a good marriage for my daughter" suggests the plot should include something hindering that. Maybe the daughter tries to allope.

That doesn't preclude GM provided plot. If some important lord showes up with a knife in his back, people will probably react. It just suggests that the details should depend on character details to help make sure the players are hooked. And, that some of the details can be driven by the results of players' rolls in trying to acheive their character goals.

Doug

(I'm sure that's clear as mud.)

[Skari-dono]

Alrighty guys, I think I've got all I need and that I'm going to move this to a more official OOC thread where we can keep a more clean view over the characters, NPCs and game discussion.

As far as I can see we have two confirmed character concepts but at least two more players. That brings the number of PCs up to possible 4. I'm thinking of asking a friend of mine if she wants to join us and make the player count reach a good 5. Hope you won't mind. I know she is interested in BW and she will be in my table-top game when it starts, but if she is like me a single game won't be enough for her ;)

Anything you think we should add before moving this into OOC threadding? I'm thinking of calling this game "War of Gods" or something but I know I suck at giving my games a name.

[Owen]

First, do you have an oppinion on women's standing in the pagan community? Personally I like the idea that they are somewhat oppressed (not generally, only in the game), but I'm not sure if it would necessarily be accurate to a pagan society.

Paganism doesn't mean gender equality. If I remember correctly, women didn't have many rights in ancient Greece for example. I had been planning on giving my character a relationship with his mother who was sent away to a temple or shrine after having a a child out of wedlock.


As far as I can see we have two confirmed character concepts but at least two more players.

I've been playing around with LPs and I've settled on Born Noble, Bastard, lead to soldier, Bannerman, Cavalryman, Herald.

He's going to be focused on proving he's as good as any true-born noble (and better than his father) but I can't decide if he should be anti-nobility in general. I'm leaning towards having him support the class structure but think he should be with the people on top.

[elgorade]

I'm definitely planning on being rather anti-noble.

Peasant -> Foot Soldier -> Smuggler -> Temple Acolyte -> Custodian

(That does make him a soldier at 9 and a vetran at 12, but it can't be helped.) Got a crippled arm and the attitude that the Lords don't know as much about life as the people. Hence the belief I quoted earlier

[Skari-dono]

All good stuff, guys :D

I went ahead and started the OOC thread.
http://burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7048

[Skari-dono]

EDIT: Damn double posting!

[DaGreatJL]

I'm thinking of the following lifepath set: Born Villager, Acolyte, Priest, Lead to Military, Chaplain, lead to Religious, Inquisitor.

[Skari-dono]

I'm thinking of the following lifepath set: Born Villager, Acolyte, Priest, Lead to Military, Chaplain, lead to Religious, Inquisitor.

Looks like good stuff to me, although I'm not so sure about the Inquisitor LP. But that's probably because everytime I think of an Inquisitor I think of a witch-hunter or guys who hunt for heretics. I'm not really sure how well they would fit in a pagan society. Then again, that's only the image I would draw of an Inquisitor but your ideas about them may be different.


the Inquisition [sing.] the organization set up by the Roman Catholic Church to punish people who opposed its beliefs, especially from the 15th to the 17th century

Obviously, there is no RCC here to oversee the Inquisition in our game, but you should think of what counts as opposing your church's beliefs. Because it is likely that your character's church is different from the RCC, its views on what does and doesn't count as heresy may be slightly different. They may have an open mind towards sorcery or witches, while the preacher who openly thinks your wargod is a wuss should be hung on his toes and stoned to death.

[elgorade]

BTW, does anyone have a suggestion for who Lord X -- the commander who got his peasant foot levies trampled at the Battle of Garandur aka the Stone Bridge -- actually is? I'm hoping he is connected to at least one other character in some way, and that he will be at this meeting.

[Owen]

I think he should be the lord that my character serves.

Are we going with Germanic names? Because I think we should start naming things. How having the lord in question be Baron Wilhem?

I'm going to call my character Edward Ill-born.

Any ideas for the name of our setting?

[Skari-dono]

Baron Wilhelm is a good name, I think. I'm not sure about the name for the setting though. Auguria? Derived from the word "augur," who was a sort of a seer or prophet in ancient Greece. Of course, that wouldn't exactly stick with the Germanic naming. Hmmm...

What else do we need naming? I like the name Garandur/Stone Bridge. The Barony in question could be the Gottheim Barony. The town where you start might be called Windburg, Everburn, Riverhill, or any combination of words really.

I'm thinking the baron may be from a long line of barons in Gottheim, who may have taken the name of the barony up as a family name (or vice versa). Sir Baron Wilhelm Gottheim. Or perhaps he doesn't use a family name: Sir Baron Wilhelm of Gottheim.

By the way, when your character's ready, feel free to post them in the OOC thread I pointed out earlier.

[Jim]

My Captain character's name is Ruger. Ruger von ... ??? I haven't yet come up with a name for his family or ancestral holdings. He's from an area/country called Niedrig though. I'll try to come up with a last name, as well as getting the character statted up and posted for review on the OOC thread.

As for 'Baron X', or Baron Wilhem von Gottheim, I'm thinking it might put an interesting spin on things if Ruger was part of the army that fought against Wilhem at the Battle of Garandur (and subsequently pounded his peasant troops, possibly routed his forces...?) I don't know if that works in terms of ages though - Ruger's in his mid 30s - not sure how old Elgorade's 'shrine warden' or Edward Ill-born are. Might have to be Ruger's father who fought at Garandur.

I was also thinking of ways to tie Ruger to Edward, probably via Edward's father - not sure what that relationship would be though: Ruger thinks highly of the father? Or Ruger thinks the father's a punk? Or maybe connect them via Edward's (disgraced?) mother, but again, I'm unsure of the chronology or what the specific relationship would be.

(This raises a question for me: You can buy a Relationship, which guarantees the NPC will be around, and presumably play a part in the story, but how do you deal with buying NPCs that have connections to multiple PCs?)

Finally, this may connect to DJL's Fanatic Apostle of Mugath(?) - I plan on buying a reputation to the effect that it's a common belief among Ruger's troops that Ruger is blessed by the gods with 'good war-fortune' or something similar. (Ruger doesn't believe this personally... Skilled? Yes. Lucky so far? Yes. Chosen by the gods? What gods?)

[Skari-dono]

Did I perhaps misunderstand? When you said "Germanic" my first thought was Germanic languages, which includes English, most of Scandinavian languages, German, Dutch and Yiddish. Did you perhaps just mean German?

http://www.davidappleyard.com/english/images/iech.jpg

What can I say? I'm studying the English language in University, I get easily confused :p


(This raises a question for me: You can buy a Relationship, which guarantees the NPC will be around, and presumably play a part in the story, but how do you deal with buying NPCs that have connections to multiple PCs?)

I'd say that each have to pay for their Relationship seperately, just as if they were paying for two seperate NPCs. You're technically not buying the NPC but for the relationship with said NPC.

[elgorade]

Fyr -- the shrine custodian -- is 29. He was roughly 12 when the battle happened by the lifepaths, but we might be able to shade that a bit higher. Say 15 years ago. So it is possible that Ruger fought there.

Having him on the opposite side may bring up what the fight was about. Which could be cool since people are at this gathering trying to get together (or not) in a common cause. Fyr doesn't care what the cause of the fight was -- that is/was just politics among the Lords -- so I never bothered to think of that.


To expand on the shrine a bit. As I said, I was thinking of a shrine overlooking the last battle of a warrior-priest, Artol. A mountain valley, with wooded hills which is a pass into more remote lands. Mostly not much settled, but some peasants and mountain villages perhaps. I figure the battle was long enough ago that people don't recall much except stories. Rather than putting another political entity in the mix, I assume it was against Orcs -- besides, that means there still could be some around in the hills.

The shrine itself isn't much. A grave marker, a small weathered stone with an inscription, a caretaker's shack, perhaps a weather beaten, partial suit of armor.

The stories say that the Orcs from the mountains were set to overrun the lowlands. Artol recognized the danger and came up with a strategy of defense by attacking. He brought his army to the mountains in the early spring. He held them together when their supplies were running low and it seemed they would not be able to fight a decisive battle. And finally, he fought and won the battle of the valley, scattering the Orc forces.

Someone has had the bright idea that a meeting here in the early spring could be symbolic in bringing the different domains together in fighting this new invasion. Presumably he hopes to cast himself in the role of Artol as well. Others may have different ideas.

---
Comments, "corrections", additions, etc. are more than welcome

[DaGreatJL]

Okay, so, I'm thinking that the patron god of the crazy priest-inquisitor is the head of the village's pantheon where he lives. Instead of being the father of the pantheon, he's simply their ruler. A god of judgment and law, as well as storms and revenge. Bringing rain to the faithful farmers, bringing hail and lightning to the unjust. The priest serves as a judge of wrongdoing and lawbreaking, as well as normal priestly duties; this is where the Inquisitor lifepath come in. Plus, look at the traits the lifepath has! Suspicious, Cold-blooded, Merciless, and Righteous! Totally must haves.
Maybe Murgath is a part of the same pantheon? Either way, this crazy priest will want to see you as a saint of battle, and may try to give suggestions on how to do just that!

I want to make a post going into more detail on the Magic Burner's take on religion and gods, but I don't think I have time right now. I'll try to take care of it tomorrow.

[Skari-dono]

This thread seems to be somewhat messed up.

Where is post #51?

Does anybody else have a problem seeing the posts that come after #50 in standard Linear mode?

[DaGreatJL]

For some reason, the board is only showing up to page 5 of this thread for me right now. The front page and the "Today's Posts" show that there are more recent posts, but I can't get to them.

[Skari-dono]

It appears to be OK now. Don't know why it was like that though.

Anyway, as soon as all the characters are posted and ready I think it is safe to start this game.

[DaGreatJL]

All right, as promised, here's a post about some ideas on handling gods:

All gods have aspects, which are the kind of things they are gods of. There are three categories of aspects: Nature, which includes the elements and physical phenomenae; Human Condition, which includes different emotions and philisophical concepts like love, fear, and honor; and Society, which includes different institutions of mankind.

Now, the Magic Burner also groups gods into three different categories; minor gods, like the dryads or Nike, who have one aspect; run of the mill gods, like Athena or Tyr, who have one aspect from each of the three categories; and chief gods, like Zeus or Baal, who have three aspects from one category, and one from the other two categories. Besides making the gods seem different, the aspects of a god also affect what a priest with Faith in said god can do; their Faith must be expressed through the god's aspects.

[Jim]

Nothing to add about gods, just posting to verify that I'm still involved. Everything sounds good so far. I'll try to get my char posted ASAP, still hammering out the Beliefs.

[elgorade]

I'm not sure where my Small Gods would fit into the schema mentioned above. Then again, it isn't clear they are Gods at all, maybe just a philosophy masquerading as faith.

In a high-powered game with the MaBu available and a lot of time for practice, the Small Gods might evolve into spirits and spirit binding. But I don't think I'll push anything like that here. Besides, it would take a large number of tests to learn the right skills to actually make it all happen and we still would have had to agree on non-Gifted summoning.