Another Wound Tolerances Variant

[Bill Cook]

Hello. I mostly post on the Forge, but I thought this idea would fit better here.

I've been playtesting duels between opponents of various weapon/shield/armor setups. Once I feel right about one set of rules, I'll use a static case and apply the next layer that interests me. But even restricting myself to Strike/Block actions and giving no consideration to weapon reach or combat distance, going from Strike margin to wound penalty (divide the margin above the base obstacle by the weapon's Add --> reference the weapon's IMS --> reference the target's PTGS --> reference the wound penalty :shock:) is enough to break me.

To suppress layers, I made two alterations: a homogeneous PTGS of two-pip steps, and swapping DN 6 dice into the weapon pool, one for Superficial and two for Light wounds. I use black-colored dice to designate. Once the entire pool is swapped, remove instead. For Midi and worse wounds, remove Su- and Li-wounded dice first.

This method maintains a distinction between reduced effectiveness and reduced capacity with the advantage of using the dice as counters. Also, unlike the standard rules, increased DN is metered out, which I find to be desirable. Another cool thing: you can see your bruises forming.

(To complete layer suppression, I arrange the success dice, according to a novel procedure, that allows me to visually determine IMS category, regardless of total obstacle. I then reference the Striker's sheet. There, I have noted wound penalties--instead of IMS--per weapon; this is allowed by the fixed PTGS.)

[Angaros]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you aren saying. Please illustrate with an example. I really want to know what you mean. It's the swapping alteration that messes it up for me I think.

[Kaare Berg]

Hi Bill,

Welcome over. Two major objections to your line of reasoning.

One of the man reason behind the upcoming new armour and wound penalty rules is an attempt to homogenise the system. Which i plain english means no more different DNs.
Simply DN4 for Black, to Dn 2 for white.
By adding DN6 dice to the die pool you are moving away from this.

Secondly I'd dare say that

homogeneous PTGS of two-pip steps
breaks the entire PTGS system. With this tweak Gorin the dwarf would get his butt handed to him on the same level as Joshua "please do not notice me" Barren (two PCs from my campaign), totally ignoring the fact the Gorin si a badass dwarf and Joshua is a skulking thief. And when that troll lumbers in you'd do what?

The whole margin of success becomes second naure after a few combats as you simply have to remember the following numbers for add 2 weapons: 1 - incidental 3- midi 5- superb. Write down the IMS for the weapon and you have it made.
As for the wound penalties I would like to venture a guess that you are stumbling on the original wound rules (I know I did) so check out these (http://www.burningwheel.org/pdf/woundtolerances.pdf).

Here superficial adds +1 ob, while the rest removes dice. easy as breakfast and harsher than morning coffe on an empty stomach.

hope this helps your further playtesting.

[Bill Cook]

Angaros:

For example, a Strike results in a Light wound (+2 DN). You could place two counters by the sheet to remind you that all your tests now have a DN of 6. Instead, I remove two white-colored dice from the target's dice pool and replace them with two black-colored dice. The white-colored dice have a DN of 4, as normal; the black-colored dice have a DN of 6.

:


One of the man reason behind the upcoming new armour and wound penalty rules is an attempt to homogenise the system. Which i plain english means no more different DNs. Simply DN4 for Black, to Dn 2 for white. By adding DN6 dice to the die pool you are moving away from this.

I don't know if what you're referring to is widely available. I have downloaded the wound tolerances variant. In any case, I'm not married to my idea. The Su +1 Ob works well, also.



I'd dare say that homogeneous PTGS of two-pip steps breaks the entire PTGS system.


Well, it hasn't come up yet, but I'd use different ones for different races or monsters. I'm not going to be using dwarves, elves or orcs. Or Halloween monsters. Or faery creatures. Just foreigners and scheming countrymen. And depraved wizards. And possibly, the horrors they loose upon the world.

So, yeah, maybe a hypothetical demon would have a higher ceiling and wider steps; they'd have to calc' that one on the spot. Even so, using a fixed scale for the most common case, i.e. a sufficiently athletic man, saves me one step for (IMO) an acceptable loss of variance.


The whole margin of success becomes second naure after a few combats as you simply have to remember the following numbers for add 2 weapons: 1 - incidental 3- midi 5- superb. Write down the IMS for the weapon and you have it made.


That's how I started out doing it. Shifting reference to memory and writing out IMS are valuable efficiencies. My margin-arranging procedure, for example, uses the dice as a calculator; I see huge increases in processing from this change.

My fatigue comes from unnecessary stages of unit conversion. So instead of converting successes to margin and margin to IMS and IMS to PTGS and PTGS to wound modifiers, I convert successes to IMS and IMS to wound modifiers.

[Viper]

I actually like the different dice for different DNs, but the thing is that under the new wound/armor system, there's no longer going to be DN penalties- all penatlties will be either increased obstacle or lost dice, so you don't have to worry about DNs at all.

[luke]

I actually like the different dice for different DNs, but the thing is that under the new wound/armor system, there's no longer going to be DN penalties- all penatlties will be either increased obstacle or lost dice, so you don't have to worry about DNs at all.

we've tried the different dice, different DNs. great concept, hideous in play. handling time was through the roof.

-L

[Viper]

I actually like the different dice for different DNs, but the thing is that under the new wound/armor system, there's no longer going to be DN penalties- all penatlties will be either increased obstacle or lost dice, so you don't have to worry about DNs at all.

we've tried the different dice, different DNs. great concept, hideous in play. handling time was through the roof.

-L

Yeah, but it's a useful idea for when you have black skills forking into grey ones and vice versa.