Assassin!

[Viper]

Well, in the rolling for damage discussion, I brought up the idea of having extra successes on a strike add pips of damage. Luke rightly pointed out that this can lead to lucky goblins scoring b10s with their short swords. I still like the idea, though, so how about making it a trait? An expensive one, yeah, but a trait nonetheless.

Assassin (7 pts.) (Rule breaker=5, always on +1, PITA +1)

This character has devoted a large part of his life to learning the art of killing with a single blow. He has memorized all of the body's vital points, going for them instinctively in the heat of combat. As a result, should he score a superb hit, he may apply any extra successes towards damage according to the add value of the weapon he is using- each time he meets the add value above a superb hit, he can add an extra pip of damage.

I think it's a lot to pay for something that's relatively minor (you'd need 8 or 9 successes to even use this with a sword, how often does that happen?) But I think it's a pretty cool option to have.

[luke]

this'd probably work ok. but beware munchkins with a G6 Sword skill, B6 Power and this trait... in four lifepaths.

-L

[Kublai]

A Grey 6 sword, a B6 Power, and seven trait points in 4 lps... not gonna happen.

[Viper]

Even with a G6 sword, he'd still need to spend artha to take advantage of the trait- and so long as the GM isn't santa claus with it, it should still be a rare occurence. Where this trait gets nasty is with knives and other add 1 weapons, but balance that with the fact that they do lower damage normally anyway, and I think it works out.

[luke]

A Grey 6 sword, a B6 Power, and seven trait points in 4 lps... not gonna happen.

Why must you test me?
:evil:

Apprentice the Assassin
(note, I in no way endorse this character)

Lifepaths: Born Peasant, Lead to Village, Laborer, Lead to Soldier, Apprentice, Cavalryman.

Age: 25 yrs

Having worked his whole life in his father's shop, Apprentice's world has come to an end. The camp overrun, his father -- the Master Smith -- was run through with the very first sword Apprentice had crafted himself. Weeping, Apprentice drew the bloodied blade from his father's ribs. With his last gasping breath, the old man whispered, "Avenge me, my son." After retreiving a frightened mount from the ruined camp, Apprentice swung himself atop it, drank his father's blood from the blade and swore himself to the god of vengeance!

Pe: B4, Wi: B3, Ag: B4, Sp: B5, Po: B6, Fo: B4.
He: B3, Re: B4, MW: B11.

Skills:
Blacksmith B2, Riding B2, Weaponsmith B2, Sword G6, Mounted Combat Training.

Resources: Horse, sword, padded armor, apprentice's uniform, black blood-stained cloak, black boots.

Contacts: His estranged mother (insig), and the marauding bandit chief he's sworn to kill (minor, hatred).

Traits: Mind Numbing Work, Assassin.

Beliefs: I shall avenge my father's death. Blood for Blood. I am sworn to the God of Vengeance; my life is forfeit but for the final act of revenge.

Instinct: Look for traces of the marauders. Draw my sword at the first unexpected whisper. When my ardor is raised, I fight like a berserker! (Enter fight in aggressive stance when angry).

never say never!
:roll:

[Viper]

Here's something that confuses me- when you say 4 lifepath character, do you mean 4 INCLUDING the "Born" lifepath, or the "Born" lifepath +4 more?

Because if one of you means one thing, and the other means the other, then you're both right, I think.

[luke]

Here's something that confuses me- when you say 4 lifepath character, do you mean 4 INCLUDING the "Born" lifepath, or the "Born" lifepath +4 more?

Because if one of you means one thing, and the other means the other, then you're both right, I think.

four lifepaths. total. including born. choosing where/how your character is born is very important -- you get traits, skills and resources.

thus, my apprentice is a four lifepath character: born peasant, laborer, apprentice, cavalryman. (and I'm pretty sure that's pete definition, too.)

-L

[Viper]

oh, whoops- I was reading soldier as a lifepath. My bad.

Must sleep more.

[luke]

Anyway,

Using the Assassin trait... I got into Aggressive stance and roll 8 dice. According to ze odds, I'd be getting +1 pip of damage to my Superb every other Strike. Every fifth, I'd be getting +2.

my IMS is B5, B9, B13. So B14-15 coming in at least once per fight, with open-ended possibilities going into the Gray. So long as the GM is playing a Conan-style sword and sorcery "my character kills what he touches" type game, then I don't really see a problem. Mortal Wounding trolls in one hit!

-L

[Kublai]

Well, I stand corrected! :shock:

I think you should use a 72 font size banner that reads "BORN... IS A LIFEPATH" at the beginning of the lifepath chapter in the Burner.

This trait doesn't seem that bad depending on the campaign.

[Fourth Horseman]

Kublai, you lost me with this one. I don't like it at all. Twelve year old assasins are already the terror of the burningwheel universe, why make them that much more nastier?

Aside from this gamebalance standpoint, I don't think your trait reflects the nuances of precision combat. Precision training requires precision weapons. The amount of pips you get to add above a superb strike should reflect the capacity of your tools to do a precision strike. I would think an assasin using a run of the mill bardiche would have some massive penalties trying to pierce that jugular vein or formoreal artery, while an assasin using a superior dirk would fair far better. So why don't we have a one to one translation of extra successes into pips for daggers, but something like a three to one translation for everything else.

Even with this allowance I still don't like it. Oh and Abzu, you forgot to make your 4 lifepath assasin a fallen noble, what's with this born peasant garbage?

[luke]

Oh and Abzu, you forgot to make your 4 lifepath assasin a fallen noble, what's with this born peasant garbage?

:oops: I needed the extra trait point that Peasants get, and I needed the shortest Born LP available. In order to properly munchkin this, it was Born Noble or nothing. I'm ashamed of myself, but the only other way to do it would have been to go Born Noble, Acolyte... and that is an ugly route. :oops:

I will try to do better next time.

-L

[Viper]

Kublai, you lost me with this one. I don't like it at all. Twelve year old assasins are already the terror of the burningwheel universe, why make them that much more nastier?

Aside from this gamebalance standpoint, I don't think your trait reflects the nuances of precision combat. Precision training requires precision weapons. The amount of pips you get to add above a superb strike should reflect the capacity of your tools to do a precision strike. I would think an assasin using a run of the mill bardiche would have some massive penalties trying to pierce that jugular vein or formoreal artery, while an assasin using a superior dirk would fair far better. So why don't we have a one to one translation of extra successes into pips for daggers, but something like a three to one translation for everything else.

Even with this allowance I still don't like it. Oh and Abzu, you forgot to make your 4 lifepath assasin a fallen noble, what's with this born peasant garbage?

Yeah, well, that's what I was getting at by making the extra pips dependent on the weapon's Add value. The only weapons you will get a 1-to-1 ratio with are daggers/dirks/etc. Everything else is 2-to-1. I agree with you though in terms of 2-handed weapons, so lets say 2-handed weapons impose a penalty point to the add, making their ratio 3-to-1. And we'll also say it only works with bladed weapons, to reflect the fact you're going for vital arteries and organs.

I wrote it, btw, not Kublai. :P

[Thor Olavsrud]

Why allow it to be used with two-handed weapons at all? I think a dagger is sufficient as far as melee weapons go. Does it work with bows, crossbows and guns?

[Kublai]

Um... I just got a look at Precision Training in use. I don't think any such trait is necessary any longer. :shock:

[Viper]

Yeah, Pete just told me what precision training was, and I think that nullifies the need for this- it makes more sense as a skill anyways.

[Fizban]

I think it's a lot to pay for something that's relatively minor (you'd need 8 or 9 successes to even use this with a sword, how often does that happen?) But I think it's a pretty cool option to have.
While using weapons with ADD 1, like daggers and knives, this trait would be much more powerfull - and this is really make sense, because such weapons are usually the favorits for assassins.
Anyway, I think assassins should get bounus VA because of their knowledge. don't you think so?

- Fizban.

[Viper]

I would say that yes, an increase in VA would be appropriate when attacking an unaware, prone, or otherwise incapacitated target. If the assassin sneaks up behind the knight on sentry duty, then yes, he should be able to easily slide the knife into a weak or exposed point. However, in a wild, heated melee, it's much harder to do.

Just to throw it out on the table, here's what I suggest: Have it be a training skill, and the way it works is thus: If the assassin has the opponent in a lock (at least 1D), then he can trade his successes for VA points on his strikes. The training should only be applicable for use with a knife or dagger.

I think this will accurately represent that you have to be in really close to take advantage of the weak points of most armor (especially plate). In my opinion, it's not enough to just be on the inside of the opponent's weapon, you've got to be on him, tussling, AND have the upper hand, otherwise he's going to just bat that knife away before you get a chance to use it.

Example of play: Deadly the Assassin is fighting Shiny the Knight, who is wearing full plate armor. After a couple of exchanges sparring, Deadly gets a 1D lock on Shiny. Instead of increasing the lock on his next action, deadly scripts a knife strike instead. He gets 5 successes, more than enough for a superb wound. However, he has 5D of armor to get through. Deadly doesn't like his prospects, so he spends some successes to get that armor down. He's using a superior quality dagger, giving him a VA of 1. He spends 4 of his successes to increase the VA to 5, representing the fact that he wants to plunge his dagger into that little bit of exposed flesh between Shiny's breastplate and shoulder-guard. Shiny will have to roll really well, AND spend artha if he wants his armor to save him, but because he spent all those successes, Deadly is only going to do an incidental wound. Not great, but maybe he'll force a steel test that will let him keep sticking a hesitating Shiny to his heart's content, until the poor guy looks like swiss cheese.

I wouldn't use this without playtesting it, though, as I can see how it could be taken a lot of advantage of by the munchkin-minded.

[Fourth Horseman]

I wrote it, btw, not Kublai. :P

Oops, my bad. :shock:

[Viper]

Nae worries, mate. :wink:

[Yagathai]

Personally, I've always been in favour of adding another level of damage beyond Superb -- call it Fantastic or what you will. Just like the other levels of damage, all it takes is a number of successes equal to add.