Giving Up Actions

[Raemos]

My group had a question about giving up actions and movement. When you give up an action in a volley to change an action in another, do you also give up any movement you had scripted in that volley? Is movement an action?

Thanks!

[Kublai]

You can change movement for free when you forfeit, as all movement is free. It never counts as an action. However, you can only change your movement when you change an action. No changing movements at whim!

[foxandwarlock]

What about when the action you forfeited was the last/only action you had scripted for that upcoming Volley?

For example, I have one action scripted in Volley 2 and one scripted in Volley 3 (with a jog). I give up my action in Volley 3 to change Volley 2. Does my jog stay intact in Volley 3 or am I "Hesitating"?

[Kublai]

You are sooooo Hesitating.

Let's make it clear and say you need an action in order to move.

[foxandwarlock]

Good thing I put that freakin' goblin down with my switched Volley 2 action, then. :twisted:

[Bill Cook]

Something here doesn't jive with my understanding. You can forfeit a future action to change another, at the top of the volley, before announcement.



e.g. Strike (Advance); Block (Maintain); Block, Strike (Maintain). Prior to volley two, you can forfeit your third volley Block to change your second volley Block to a Feint.


However, to change movement, the main guidance from the text is "Players may forfeit one action from their script to change their movement rate in an upcoming volley." (BW, p. 76) I'm not reading support for free changes to movement in addition to an action change for one forfeiture. Continuing with the example above, if you wanted to also change your second volley movement to Advance, you would have to additionally forfeit your third volley Strike.

[Drozdal]

Something here doesn't jive with my understanding. You can forfeit a future action to change another, at the top of the volley, before announcement.



e.g. Strike (Advance); Block (Maintain); Block, Strike (Maintain). Prior to volley two, you can forfeit your third volley Block to change your second volley Block to a Feint.


However, to change movement, the main guidance from the text is "Players may forfeit one action from their script to change their movement rate in an upcoming volley." (BW, p. 76) I'm not reading support for free changes to movement in addition to an action change for one forfeiture. Continuing with the example above, if you wanted to also change your second volley movement to Advance, you would have to additionally forfeit your third volley Strike.

Forfeit rule will be changed in upcoming revision, so by sacrifacing one action You will be able to change one of your action and your movement for a volley (rule is kinda broken right now, because you could not change jog/strike action for a sprint/charge - and as we know charging requies character to be sprinting).

[Bill Cook]

That makes sense. After my break with pace counts, I've stopped using the movement types (walk, dash, sprint). I do Charge different than, even, I think, what's being floated for revized. But I get your point.

Question: (this is just my curiousity, mainly) which forum members comprise the design team behind BW? Thor Olavsrud speaks as though he's right there at the table with Luke. Who else?

There's a real relaxed tone on these boards, so I don't mean to sound like an accountant. But I've been confused a handful of times now by the mixing of current edition and revized playtesting. One thing I liked immediately when I started checking out the forum page is that one forum was designated for core rules and another for expansions and variants.

I think it's cool that Luke floats ideas from revized playtesting. And I'd want to talk in new terms ASAP where they improved play. (To wit, the posts where I gush about my own adaptations.) But I think it's important to be explicit. Also, I recommend that a revized playtest summary of disclosed material be maintained as a sticky under variants and expansions.

[Kublai]

Your forum ideas have merits, Bill, and such is our intention but conversations ooze and flow on and off topic, so it's hard to really keep the line marked. The sticky idea is best and will most likely be implemented. I know I am soooo mixed up between old rules and new rules and house rules and rules that have never seen the light of day. I'm sure it'll be all cleared up in a matter of months when the Annual and Revision come out. Then we can tidy up all these forums too.

[Yagathai]

Hey, can I officially call dibs on the position of official BW reactionary iconoclast? You know, the guy that rants about how much all of the changes in the newest edition suck, and how much better it was with the original because it had more "character"?

I've had a lot of practice at this particular role (AD&D 1st ed forevah!), and I think that I could be really effective at polarizing the player base and generating a lot of powerful controversy.

[Kublai]

Dude, you are about 5 years to late to call that position! I've been doing it for years now, much to Abzu's chagrin! :twisted:

[Yagathai]

OK, but did you actually call it? Because according to the internationally accepted Guy Rules, codified lo these many centuries ago, the only thing that can take precedence over me calling it is you calling it first.

Well, I guess Luke can always exercise his "tough nuts, bitch" rights and make a declaration of fiat (also in accordance with the ancient and venerable Rules, of course). But besides that -- dude, I freakin' called it, man.[/i]

[Thor]

OK, but did you actually call it? Because according to the internationally accepted Guy Rules, codified lo these many centuries ago, the only thing that can take precedence over me calling it is you calling it first.


He called it. Trust me. :twisted:

He doesn't bear the title He Who Bears the Lash for nothin'.

[luke]

Yag,

i see what you are saying. I think your role would be quite distinct from Kublai's. You're more of a Bitter Grave Digger to his Reactionary He Who Bears the Lash.

However, if I do bestow this title upon you (and I'm prepared to) you must promise me a full length review decrying why A Tree Grows in Brooklyn is SO MUCH BETTER than the lame new traits like Batshit and Spooky.

:roll:

-L

PS I am about to eat pie.

[Yagathai]

Of course it is! A Tree Grows in Brooklyn is poetic and symbolic. It conjures up great swaths of correlative concepts that already exist in the educated gamer's sphere of knowledge. It's an archetypical, evocative phrase that means a lot more than simply denotes.

Batshit? Spooky? Faugh, I say. Over-simplistic pandering to the newbie of the basest and most irritating sort. They leave no room for imagination or growth. They have no character, no contextual richness, no archetypical resonance. I suppose they make more sense to, say, a five-year-old, but I think I speak for most gamers when I say that I don't appreciate being talked down to by my games.

I don't want to draw hasty conclusions, but clearly, the revised edition of Burning Wheel is a total and complete betrayal of the faith that we dedicated fans have in the current, obviously superior edition. Shame on you, Luke Crane, for selling out to the masses, and making some of the worst revised-design decisions since Armor Class went positive and THAC0 disappeared. This isn't meant to be alarmist, but if things keep trending in this direction -- could Burning D20 be far behind?

[Thor]

Shame on you, Luke Crane, for selling out to the masses, and making some of the of the worst revised-design decisions since Armor Class went positive and THAC0 disappeared. This isn't meant to be alarmist, but if things keep trending in this direction -- could Burning D20 be far behind?

OMG, can't stop laughing! :lol:

[Yagathai]

"Worst revised edition ever."

[luke]

::hides OGL/D20 license::

:oops:

[Fourth Horseman]

I hate to interrupt the good mirth here but I have some legitimate suggestions for the new edition. Maybe I'll start up a new thread for this:

a) A Movement and Maneuver chart. Right now movement is so . . . one dimentional. An M&M chart would add hours of fun. :idea:

b) Criticals. I really, really miss hitting a person repeatedly in the same location over and over and over again. The current system leaves too much to be imagined . . . and that's a bad thing. :cry:

c) A wandering monster chart. This speaks for itself. Or maybe it doesn't, I can't believe this wasn't in the Monster Burner, what kind of a hack are you anyway? Although I'm not certain on this point since I never, er, bought a copy of the monster burner. So kudos to you if that's in there, with a 5 percent chance I can run into a great cold drake in a town alley, shame . . . shame on you if its not. :mrgreen:

d) D100. :)

e) A complimentary Pirate, Ninja, Viking, Paladin campaign with the new rules. :D

[Yagathai]

So, am I now the official Bitter Grave Digger?

[luke]

So, am I now the official Bitter Grave Digger?


you are.

and 4H has left me speechless.

He's right, I'm a hack.

::sadly hangs up Game Designer Hat::
::solemnly dons Hack hat::
::gets job on Crossfire::

-L

[Kaare Berg]

As an official BW veteran and elouqent curmedgeon and the protector of sacred cows from game-designer mutilators, I ,as the voice of the north, deem all your claims to be the official "decrier of all things bright and new" to be null and void. I am the only on worthy of such a title on the basis of my inflexible nature and old person rantishness.

Besides I'm bigger than you.

K

[luke]

i'm very excited that so many of you are prepared to hate the new edition. I promise that I won't disappoint you; there will be changes and you'll hate them!

I can feel the hate now. We should start the flame war as soon as possible so that it gets so that as soon as the books leave the bindery they just burst into flames!


wow, this thread has got off track. but if I remember correctly, the right answer was spoken by Kublai/Thor/Dro. When you forfeit an action, you can change your movement in the volley where you change an action. It's a free "tandem forfeit".

-L