MoBu City

[Judd]

Concept: A post-medieval city where every lifepathed creature in the Monster Burner and Character Burner co-exist. Car wreck? Playable?

It is a city built out of raw hatred, greed, faith, spite, and ancestral taint. A wyrd-weaver will read your fortunes in her web in the Tower Districts. Afraid to be smashed come sunrise, trolls mine coal that is fed into tremendous furnaces that keep the trains running. Great Wolf packs stay in the city only long enough to sell their hunt and be gone before the city's stink can settle into their fur.

MoBu City squats between the mountains and the ocean. It is said that the name is a shortening of a longer word in an ancient language but scholars cannot agree on what that phrase might be.

Originally it was an Elven city, built around an ancient citadel, but there are so few of them left. The only etharch still ruling is in a distant western harbor, ushering the remaining of the First Born west. They say she barely has enough of her kind to hold a complete court. Elven Songs are lost every time another is lost to grief.

Orb Weaver webs connect crumbling elven towers; at night the wind plays haunting music through the Great Spider's complicated strands. Great Hunters venture into the hills, bringing in goat-meat to sell. Some intrepid Sea Lords venture to the Satyropolis, city of the holy mourning, to trade their wares. Most simply fish for tuna in the harbor, selling their wares near the docks. Undernesters vie for under-city territory with the Troll, Orc, and Roden. Dwarven Outcasts who cannot afford to live in the Guild Vaults or the Clan Blocks join in the underground turf battles among the tunnels.

Humans seem to be everywhere. The remains of courts have been claimed by those whose money allows them to live where elves once held court. The humans who can afford it hold great parties in crumbling halls where elven songs once rang out, now lit by gaslight. Those who cannot afford such niceties are pushed out of the central city into the outer Burroughs. Where there were once the gentle villages of Elven Wilderlanders are now human-occupied slums as human architecture vomits out from what was once a beautiful elven citadel surrounded by glades and streams.

Roden are equal to humans in numbers but their preoccupation with inter-nest politics has so far kept them from having a large impact on the city's political machinery.

Orc are only people who speak the languages of both the Great Wolves and the Great Spiders. This gives them a kind of power in Mobu City, as their Black Riders and Masters of Eight can navigate and negotiate politics and business deals that no one else could do alone. Some orc even raise Great Wolf pups of their own but refuse to sell them to any but their own kind.

Sometimes years will go by without the Guild Vault opening. People wonder what goes on in there but it is like a city within the city, entire self-sufficient, cut off from everyone, even their own kind (especially their own kind) with great doors of stone and iron.

Some days you can walk along the canals, past faded elven statues that some say once spoke; but today you can hear a spider croak out an offer to a wolf for a goat carcass brought in from the mountains while a human attempts to sell trash as an elven artifact. Nearby a Dwarven Outcast throws dice with Human Criminals and an eight legged Great Fisher.

Thought: All color and no situation? I dunno. It is an idea I've had for a while, since listening to Perdido Street Station, my second reading of that book, doing the Make Your Own New Crobuzon thing and IMing with Rob Donoghue about the idea.

[Judd]

Easy Little touches:

flintlock pistols, neighborhood character traits for characters, languages come from -wises, so if you want to speak the Black Tongue you can take Orc-wise.

What about an orc has learned how to take abandoned webs and do Web Wyrding or some-such shit?

I think the game is about what happens when these different stocks are shoved into a single city, so that stuff should happen in game.

I need to look into the end of the medieval era, the transition from crown to republic and the role cities played in that transition.

[Berandor]

I don't know, but it reminds me of New Crobuzon or, even more, of the Armada from the books of China Mieville. Which means, that sounds awesome.

[Judd]

I don't know, but it reminds me of New Crobuzon or, even more, of the Armada from the books of China Mieville. Which means, that sounds awesome.

Thanks! The idea was definitely from Mieville's books and how they respect and honor monsters of all kinds and from this post. (http://judd-sonofbert.livejournal.com/464265.html)

[Judd]

Other thoughts:

Alter the circles obs based on the neighborhood you were born in.

A kind of steampunky thaumaturgical gadgeteering using a severely hacked Burning Empires tech burner rules but the gadgetry is about blending the different types of magics, so in order to make something really cool, you will have to circles up or meet up and DoW an Orb Weaver, Spellsinger, Blood Whisperer, Society (aka Court) Sorcerer, etc.

[Paul B]

Hot!

In the spirit of Mieville, who's The Man? The Etharchs? Some kind of freaky Etharch-Great Spider alliance? The presence of a great crumbling bureaucracy seems important, at least to the PSS stories.

I wonder if anyone's ever written a phpbb plug-in that automatically thesaurusizes (!?) random words.

p.

[imprimis5]

Am I the only one who pictures a darker Ankh-Morpork? Plenty of situation there.

[Judd]

Hot!

In the spirit of Mieville, who's The Man? The Etharchs? Some kind of freaky Etharch-Great Spider alliance? The presence of a great crumbling bureaucracy seems important, at least to the PSS stories.

I wonder if anyone's ever written a phpbb plug-in that automatically thesaurusizes (!?) random words.

p.

I've got ideas about councils and byzantine voting but I want to look up the ways the first things like that worked as royalty and crowns faded to the background and voting became a thing.

[Paul B]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doge_of_Venice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doge_of_Venice)

is one place to start.

p.

[Judd]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doge_of_Venice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doge_of_Venice)

is one place to start.

p.

That is hot stuff.

I like the idea of the different heads of the different churches being in charge of the election of the Doge of MoBu.

This is a lifelong elected ruler who is elected by the human faiths, the Orcish Church of Eight and Temple of Fire and Blood, the Elven religion having to do with Paradise in the West, the stars and singing the world into being and the pragmatic dwarven deity of crafts and forge fires. Maybe the Roden and the Trolls do not have faiths...yet.

Neat.

That is interesting stuff and might be the place to start.

[Paul B]

Crazy idea that just popped into my head: maybe those races that "don't have faith" yet? They secretly elect a lifelong Antidoge, ruling over a shadow council and addressing the needs of the disenfranchised who find themselves outside the mainstream church structure.

The Doge and Antidoge, of course, have regular very secret meetings. Nobody takes notes, and neither party ever discusses the contents of those meetings. Ever.

p.

[Judd]

Crazy idea that just popped into my head: maybe those races that "don't have faith" yet? They secretly elect a lifelong Antidoge, ruling over a shadow council and addressing the needs of the disenfranchised who find themselves outside the mainstream church structure.

The Doge and Antidoge, of course, have regular very secret meetings. Nobody takes notes, and neither party ever discusses the contents of those meetings. Ever.

p.

They have no faith, so they cannot vote.

Clever humans.

I'm marinating in all of this.

Thanks.

[rafial]

This is a cool idea. An old school reference along these lines is the city of Khazan, in Ken St. Andre's Trollworld (the loosely defined setting for Tunnels & Trolls). The monster kindred, tired of being persecuted by humans, rose up and conquered the humans under the leadership of powerful sorceress. On the streets of Khazan, you are likely to meet an Uruk or Minotaur as you are an Elf or Dwarf.

[noclue]

Judd, check out the last paragraph of this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesia_(ancient_Athens)

[johnstone]

Oh, stupid stupid Wikipedia. Those are Scythian archers. Put the archers in there, or you will never be able to look them up anywhere else on teh intarwebs. (http://www.stoa.org/projects/demos/article_scythian_archers?page=5&greekEncoding=unicodeC)

[noclue]

neat! Bookmarked

[AnyaTheBlue]

Something that immediately springs to my mind is that the most interesting things are going to happen where all these diverse cultures meet and mix.

Yes, the Dwarf-only metalworking guild is a political power, but the multi-species street gangs, the dwarf kid whose best friends are a roden and a spider, well, those stories are going to change the world out from under the mono-cultures.

[Judd]

Something that immediately springs to my mind is that the most interesting things are going to happen where all these diverse cultures meet and mix.


Yes, I completely agree.

There is some interesting stuff there.

[johnstone]

At first I thought the opening line was a post-medieval city where all the lifepaths in the CB and MonBu coexisted and I was like "whoooah..."

Anyway, this doesn't sound like the kind of city that elves and human would be very much at home in. Dwarves, troll, and orcs all live underground. At least half the Roden and Spiders live underground I think, and both Spiders and Wolves would be at home in the run-down, de-organized ruins of a city. Only humans, elves, and Roden have any interest in above-ground agriculture.

Not a criticism, mind you -- it sounds more like an opportunity to play an elf or human wandering into some place he totally doesn't understand, kind of how you might play the lone Spider in a longshanks campaign.


I'm also thinking the most politically potent position in the city would be the black orc who can gather support from the normal orc allies -- gaining support from the Wolf and Spider factions is going to increase the supply of slaves available, as they cast off undesirables. I can see the Spiders and Roden trying to be the powers-behind-the-throne, the elves and Dwarves being less subtle and more demanding, humans trying both paths, and the Wolves as complete mercenaries, supporting whoever gives them a better deal.

Voting seems a little out of the question - this system is going to be more corrupt than even Venice ever was. Although you might consider the Roman system, of voting by tribes, non-secretly.

[AnyaTheBlue]

Also, this provides the opportunity to both play against type with these people, but also play with type in inventive ways.

Any of the underground-living races are going to hate living above ground. Can you imagine an extended family of orcs "making due" by living at the top of a (hated) elvish tower, the windows bricked and boarded, painted over, and so forth, to blot out the hated sun?

Such property is going to be least desirable for orcs, and therefore where the poorest orcs might end up living -- unless they rent out that sort of unlivable space to someone else. But who wants to rent from an orc?

On the other hand, Trolls who have Enemies of the Sun are going to have a much better time of interacting with Humans, say, than the rest of their brethren, and will probably find themselves much more able to integrate with the larger society.

Who builds and maintains the sewers and roads and aqueducts? Who designs them? Are there orc bakers selling their ethnic cuisine to all comers? Ditto for spiders.

Humans are going to be happy to pay orcs and dwarves and roden to mess about underground with sewage and the like. And, honestly, lots of orcs and dwarves and roden aren't going to be exactly happy with such work. Do the multicultural members of the Plumbers, Sewers and Night Soil Workers Union get along with each other, and have more common cause with one another, than they do with their friends and families outside of work, back safely amongst their own kind in Little Mordor?

I have had, for quite some time, a vision in my head of Marxist dwarves organizing labor in a Human/Dwarf/Orc society with legalized orc slavery. Seems to me that would be right at home in this kind of setting...

[Judd]

Neat stuff, Anya. This all makes me think that playing in this setting is going to be about setting the scene, having the players further define what adjustments these stocks would have to make to city-life and where the divisions of power are and then finding the situation that interests them for making up characters.

I dunno.

Still marinating.

I have this vision of dwarves having orc slaves, prisoners they captured during an ancient war back in the homelands who they brought with them and the other orc just not particularly caring.

[AnyaTheBlue]

Yeah, it really feels like a social-oriented setting to me, and finding the bits of the setting that interest the players out of all the possible bits the setting enables will be key to a fun game. I suppose you can say that about any setting, though.

It's a cool thought experiment and world-build, but it really feels like it needs player input -- or *something* -- to gel. It feels pregnant with potential, but like it's missing something.

I dunno, either.

Orcs would totally not care if there were some enslaved orcs, as long as *they* weren't the enslaved ones.

Hm.

Aside from physical city infrastructure (roads, buildings, water, sanitation), where are people going to be pushed into cooperating?

Crime. Law enforcement. Food production? Distribution? Communication?

I'm not sure, really. I mean, you could easily see the city breaking down into self-contained ethnic enclaves -- as happened historically in the US. But the next generation or two is going to look very different due to mixing and influences and growing up together. Depending on how old the city is it may well be comfortably multi-species. Or it might be that the PCs are in the vanguard breaking the Old Ways by mixing together and cooperating in the face of tradition. Or somewhere in between.

Dunno.

Depends on what The Story is. And that's tricky to decide without player input and risks falling into metaplot. I always find it tricky -- but rewarding -- to remind myself to stop making choices about setting for players. Not that you need me to tell you that. :/

[Storn]

Okay, fun thread. One thing that struck me about Perdido Street Station and the comment of ***'Anyway, this doesn't sound like the kind of city that elves and human would be very much at home in."****

That is, PErdido is pretty much a non weaponry zone. Civilized folks do not go around armed. In that way, Perdido looks more like victorian england than medieval germany, which seems to be the default of many a fantasy campaign... ya know... bandits in the woods, on the roads, poor beer making monks have to really study weapon skills just so they get left alone on their way to buy hops from the next village.

There has to be some kind of pressure that keeps these insanely disparate groups from tearing the city apart. Political? Cultural? Gods?

My suggestion is an edict handed down by some uber god. No faction can make outright war on any other or else.... maybe some kind of example of the "or else" in a sister city that was wiped out by this god or gods.

This is a bit of a cliche, but a ruling elite... I would pick either the spiders or the elves. And I would really pick the elves over the spiders. The elves, millenia ago, decried that "y'all gonna have to live with each other." But now, as the elven elite dwindle and their political, military, economic might wanes, the pressure cooker is really on.

As for infrastructure working... I think some kind of parliament system might be in place. So all these factions do get some kind of vote and some kind of reason for sticking with the status quo. Sure, getting orc representatives out of jail for picking a fight to the House of Commons might be a bit tricky and they are under represented.

But back to the weapon thing. I think you have to have license to carry. Or be affiliated with a group that can legally carry a weapon. Or be illegal. This will keep poorer starting resource characters sans legal weaponry. The populace will be under-weaponized compared to most fantasy campaign societies. And lethal violence is frowned upon not just by the elites but by the overall society as a whole. Sure, orcs and dwarves will tussle in the bars occasionally, sure roden rebellions have happened. Sure, humans sometimes go on witch hunts and burn spiders at the stake...but these are the horrible exceptions... this would be a campaign where the Duel of Wits might indeed be mightier than Fight!

I would so wanna play an elven, child of privilege turned Insurrectionist! Fighting against his own people in the dailies and in the taverns.

[Judd]

That is, PErdido is pretty much a non weaponry zone. Civilized folks do not go around armed. In that way, Perdido looks more like victorian england than medieval germany, which seems to be the default of many a fantasy campaign... ya know... bandits in the woods, on the roads, poor beer making monks have to really study weapon skills just so they get left alone on their way to buy hops from the next village.

There has to be some kind of pressure that keeps these insanely disparate groups from tearing the city apart. Political? Cultural? Gods?

This can be easily handled by saying that unless the players have some kind of soldier, outcast/criminal or law enforcement lifepath they do not have armor, swords or spark-lock pistols/rifles.

Handled through the city's resources list.

I am thinking that the creation of the city's ruling party might be part of the city-burning process itself, things the group answers for itself.

Something to think on.



I would so wanna play an elven, child of privilege turned Insurrectionist! Fighting against his own people in the dailies and in the taverns.

Nice. I'd want each stock to stick to their own lifepath sets but it wouldn't be hard to have an elven child who has strong belief about starting such a movement, with relationships that point toward it and so on.

Born Etharch -> Student -> Attendant...ANARCHY! through play.

Learning new skills from other cultures is part of what the play is going to be about, I'd imagine.

[Paul B]

It might be interesting to focus special attention on Trait Votes that actually vote your Emo Attributes off (more formally, vote off the trait that grants the Emo Attribute in the first place), due to play and your interpretation of exposure to the melting-pot. So you could easily have Griefless Elves, Hateless Orcs, etc.

p.

[Tobias]

I'm getting the mieville vibe as well, but also some Tarant (Arcanum PC game). The orc labour thing, flintlocks, steam.

I'd be interested in playing a set of characters that was aware of the corruption of the system (slightly more so than the average populace and their friends), but forced to keep it going due to greater outside pressures. To not defuse tension ("we're fighting the big bad, so we break some eggs") the actual tasks they have to perform should be hurtful to people just like them... crackdowns, wrongful imprisonment, etc.

From the player(s) moves/intent/statement you can then move into 'fighting big bad anyway', or 'let's revolt!' (or anything in between) as they indicate.

[johnstone]

Okay, fun thread. One thing that struck me about Perdido Street Station and the comment of ***'Anyway, this doesn't sound like the kind of city that elves and human would be very much at home in."****

Storn, good points on weapons, but you misunderstood me completely.


Here's my point: ORCS LIVE IN DARKNESS.

The only time they need light is to burn stuff. Otherwise, they hate the sunlight. If this city is above ground, why would orcs (and trolls) be there? Would you go to a place where you suffer an Obstacle penalty half the time (or more)? Only to destroy whatever is there!

Most of these 8 races are already geared to live together. Orc society already includes Wolves, Spider, and Trolls, living underground. Dwarves and Roden also live underground, even though they can't see in the dark, so it's pretty easy to include them, especially since the Roden are supposed to live under human cities. But Elves and humans are geared towards living above-ground.

If the city is above-ground, why are there orcs and trolls? Are they all Enemies of the Sun? Are they persecuted minorities living in the sewers (much like urban Roden)? Or is trade just too damn lucrative to pass up -- in which case, what are the orcs bringing into the city that is so valuable?

If the city is subterranean, why are there humans and elves there? If they have started living underground with all those strange races, why?

If the city is half-and-half, are they independent? If not, how does one group manage to exert its authority over both sections? Only Spiders and Orcish Enemies of the Sun can function in light and pitch dark equally well (Troll Enemies of the Sun cannot see in total darkness).

My answer would be Dwarves, for a variety of reasons.

One, they are Greedy enough to tolerate running a city full of vermin, I mean orcs and rats and spiders. They can associate with elves and humans easily enough, yet subterranean enough to deal with orcs and trolls. Unlike Roden, who cold also possibly bridge the same gap, they are tough enough warriors they can keep unruly elements in line.

They can parcel out different areas for different races. You'd find humans, elves, dwarves, roden, and wolves above-ground (probably in that order, population-wise). And some Spiders, especially around the docks. Down below, you'd find Orcs, Dwarves, Roden, Spiders, Trolls, and Wolves, plus the occasional human.

Or anyway, that's how I'd work it, in order to keep it as close to the existing lifepaths as possible. The political situation looks pretty easy to detail from there, I think.

[Storn]

No. I got your point. I just didn't think it needed to be addressed in that fashion. Orcs don't need to live in DArkness... that is the default setting set up by Luke and co. Its our game. We can do with as we please.

Now if the group is interested in Orcs living in darkness in Mobu, that does present its own hurdles and opportunities.

Your comment was just an add'l launching point for what I was thinking about Perdido and a lack of weaponry.

[johnstone]

Oh, of course. I'm just thinking of the stocks as is. If you guys are going to change them up, there's a lot more you can do with them.

[Judd]

Oh, of course. I'm just thinking of the stocks as is. If you guys are going to change them up, there's a lot more you can do with them.

I'd rather use the stocks as is for creative constraints that will create the city.

The traits that get tacked on to the different stocks via the lifepaths are what gives them flavor and I think they are what makes MoBu City a potentially interesting place.

[Steerpike]

I keep seeing a city that has a Day Side and a Night Side, which is partly based on the time of day and a little bit on the above/underground sections of the city.

Orcs and Trolls with the traits that let them deal with the sunlight become fixers and go betweens the two sides of the city.

Plus you have the people of all stocks and races who have been forced into that gray area between, Orcs who need the money so work in factories with boarded up windows during the day for Greedy Dwarves, Human peddlers and tradesmen wondering the underground sections of the city selling their wares and so on.

- Colin

[johnstone]

Ugh, I'm sorry guys. It seems whenever I go into spec-fic mode, I get too focused and start blocking when I shouldn't be. So, I'll stop it.

Here's a few ideas to bring races together:

The mountains around the city are rich in gold, silver, and precious gems. What they do not have much of is good, old-fashioned iron ore. So the orcs and dwarves have been coming to the city for centuries, to get iron through sea trade, run by humans and elves. Elves don't seem to need much iron, but dwarves and orcs need a lot, because of their wars with each other, and with the elves.

But the Dwarves are better miners, and make better use of the trans-alpine trade routes, so they always have more to trade, and they subtly manage to undercut the orcs, often buying the best of everything the orcs need, especially iron. But the orcs have other things to sell, like slaves. They sell green orcs, trolls, wolves, and even spiders in the city. This has resulted in a varied slave population in the city. Trolls probably do the best, given the chance to develop an average human intellect.

Spiders and wolves have themselves noticed they can come to the city and purchase their brethren from the slave-masters, and thus emancipate them. Given the brutal nature of orc society, they sometimes regret spending the money.

Once in the city, they can't help but notice the opportunities, especially for the Spiders. They become weavers, tailors, ratcatchers, harbor guards, night watchmen, couriers, astrologers, and bartenders. Some hire themselves out as guides to prospectors who come for the gold rush. Wolves have fewer employment opportunities, and probably just work as mercenaries on trips to and from the city.

For humans, those slaves are a tempting lure. They might have to import the iron, but once it's in the city, they have a cheap workforce to craft it, and eager customers close-by. Besides, those ironclad steamships they build can take the gold and coal back across the sea in huge quantities...

[Judd]

Thanks, folks.

I am going to take this idea/thing to stage II and post some rules and some ideas for fully burning the city up for each group.

When I have that down, I will post it or a link to it here.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Storn]

Unfortunately, we have a real world model of many factions forced to live together and that would be Iraq. I'm sure it is not the only model in the real world, but it is the one that leaps to this mind. Shite, Suni, Kurd, Caldean all clumped together by the British Empire after WWII into a nation-state. It was the end of WWI and the Ottoman empire was defeated and had to make concessions, ceding Iraq was one of the many concessions the Ottoman empire made.

Mobu could be the same deal, on a smaller scale, city-state scale.

So one question I suggest is this leading one: "Who or what was the Power That Be that forced these factions together into MoBu city? "

Then the follow up question: "Or is there another reason(s) (mystical, divine, greater enemy) that all these races exist together in Mobu in uneasy state of truce?"

[Judd]

I'm writing stuff now, Storn.

I've got it.

[Trithemius]

Unfortunately, we have a real world model of many factions forced to live together and that would be Iraq. I'm sure it is not the only model in the real world, but it is the one that leaps to this mind. Shite, Suni, Kurd, Caldean all clumped together by the British Empire after WWII into a nation-state. It was the end of WWI and the Ottoman empire was defeated and had to make concessions, ceding Iraq was one of the many concessions the Ottoman empire made.

Hi Storn! Post-WW I "Mandate" concessions were pretty good at creating this sort of situation. Lebanon has had enduring problems (former-Ottoman to French Mandate under Sykes-Picot) and Yugoslavia (former Austro-Hungarian to independent) has had its ups and downs too.

This approach requires some kind of external force though which presumably would have to have a plausible disappearance before the PCs could start messing with things in a big way!

[Gugudada]

Hello!

Just to let you guys this thread R-O-C-K-S. I'm in awe of the creativity & sheer fun factor of MoBu city!

Reminds me a bit of GURPS Cabal's vibe, if the Cabal came "out of the closet."

Thanks a lot Paka & all the other mad creatives!

G

[Judd]

Thanks.

I've written some more on it but have taken a big step back from making up cool shit and instead have worked on providing a framework for folks to burn up their own post-medieval city with its own power struggles and fantasy tidbits. There's still a framework that will give each MoBu City a common vibe but it leaves the gaming group to insert details and the broader strokes.

I want to tinker with it a bit more yet before I post anything up.

[FigureFour]

Thanks.

I've written some more on it but have taken a big step back from making up cool shit and instead have worked on providing a framework for folks to burn up their own post-medieval city with its own power struggles and fantasy tidbits. There's still a framework that will give each MoBu City a common vibe but it leaves the gaming group to insert details and the broader strokes.

I want to tinker with it a bit more yet before I post anything up.

Woah . . . I totally missed that there was anything more than brainstorming going on here.

The idea of a MoBu City Burner (MoBuCiBu?) is terribly exciting.

Consider yourself encouraged!

[Judd]

Woah . . . I totally missed that there was anything more than brainstorming going on here.

The idea of a MoBu City Burner (MoBuCiBu?) is terribly exciting.

Consider yourself encouraged!

Thanks.

I am still tinkering with it and will try to post something up, perhaps a new thread, once I have it in some kind of share-able state.

[Fuseboy]

Half Underground
Put the city at the center of a stone valley floor, nestled in a soft, porous stone. Imagine a network of canyons carved by four rivers, meeting; eroding until the rivers are eventually all diverted from their surface courses, creating additional underground thoroghfares before continuing ever deeper.

Water is plentiful (you just have to go deep enough), the surrounds (where the stone isn't so easily eroded) are wet and fertile, and building materials are easy to come by.

A swiss cheese sort of city, with many areas that only get the smallest glimpse of sunlight.

Place of Compromise
There could be profound economic reasons why so many cultures might come together. Imagine the engineering and artistic possibilities of spider silk, for one - this would make orc intermediaries extremely valuable. Imagine a place where the spider-silk sails, clothing, and armour can be easily (if not cheaply) obtained.

I once read an essay that about 'desert religions', arguing that the religions that formed in the middle east were partly rural reactions to 'the city' - by its nature a place of cultural compromise.

It would be fun to explore the tensions between beings who live in the city and heir kinfolk abroad who view the place with the deepest suspicion. Imagine how most people would view humans who feel a deep spiritual connection to the compassionate teachings of the philosopher poet Arachene Eight-Legged? Or to those who allowed orcs to receive the sacraments of Lux (in the hopes they might walk creation under his light).

Imagine the mood on the street as a procession of glistening spider merchants arrives from the deep place - lured by spider-kind's insatiable desire for normally unobtainable live lamb (which they can't get to thrive below), but fiercely xenophobic and obviously terrified of ksh'it'ti (roughly, 'two legs and fire').

Actually, it would be fun if the whole places was founded on Arachene's principles of compassion - seven hundred years ago human villages dotting the valley were solicited to raise sheep by an obscure group of monks living in a rocky part of the valley at the edge of the orclands, thought useless for farming. Then the gold started flowing.

[Judd]

Fuseboy,

I have a MoBu City Burner, not quite entirely cooked that I hope to post up soon in a new thread (with a link from this thread for those who were following along and interested) that will allow each group to burn up exactly the kinds of details that you are brewing above.

Judd

[luke]

Exciting!

[Gugudada]

A-a-a-a-a-awesome!!... Looking very much forward to this!:D

Thanks a mil!
G

[Judd]

Here's another thread on Burning MoBu City. (http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?p=80748#post80748)