New Trait: Aura of the Unnatural

[eruditus]

Die Trait, 2 pts
As the power of ages courses through your veins those around you are affected. All in your presence have a visceral reaction to you. Bile may rises to their throats, they may instinctively hold their breath, or get fidgety when you look at them. Persuassion, Haggling and similar roles that require charm and finesse are at a -2D penalty. Roles that require fear and Intimidation are at a +2D bonus. All those with the trait, Gifted, get his as a bonus trait. Anyone can buy it though. Without supernatural implications this could also be dubbed "creepy."

[Kublai]

[quote="eruditus"]Die Trait, 2 pts
Persuassion, Haggling and similar roles that require charm and finesse are at a -2D penalty. Roles that require fear and Intimidation are at a +2D bonus.quote]

That is a huge bonus/penalty for 2pts. Probably worth 3pts. Also, you should raise and lower the Obstacle instead of giving or subtracting dice.

[eruditus]

So why raise Ob rather than lower dice? is there an underlying design philosophy that I'm touching on?

[Kublai]

So why raise Ob rather than lower dice? is there an underlying design philosophy that I'm touching on?

Bing! :D

[eruditus]

So why raise Ob rather than lower dice? is there an underlying design philosophy that I'm touching on?

Bing! :D

:lol:

Care to fill us mere mortals in on that point of philosophy?

[luke]

Over the course of many years of playing the game we've found that subtractive dice tend to create all sorts of hiccups in the system. In this case, an obvious hiccup is this trait could lower a skill exponent for certain tests to "zero". This is problematic for advancement. Though the character has a Skill of B2, they are advancing/taking tests as if they had a B0. Everything is harder, sure. But in the case of BW, this only benefits them. Not really fair to the rest of the world.

The only time you lose dice in BW is when you are wounded and/or in pain (in the case of a Lock).

Better to increase/decrease obstacle or just give bonus dice. Each of these methods remains consistent with the other sections of the game, especially advancement.

You can try out the +2/-2 version of the trait and see how it works for you. But I'm with Kublai, it seems way too much of a benefit for the points cost. Very easy to munchkin about with a trait like this. Who cares about Haggling when you can start the game with (essentially) a B8 Intimidation?

Consider +1D to Intimidate/Torture/Interrogate, and perhaps a Double Obstacle Penalty to ALL OTHER Social skills.

just my $.02
-abzu

[Claymore]

I have a quick comment on the trait. One thing to consider are the disadvantages when pricing out a trait. Yes you get a +2 D bonus to to fear and intimidation for -2 D for charm related skills. But also consider the text with the trait:


Die Trait, 2 pts
All in your presence have a visceral reaction to you. Bile may rises to their throats, they may instinctively hold their breath, or get fidgety when you look at them.

Let's consider what would happen when this character wanders into the local village. The peasants cower to him, run, or do what he asks of them because of fear. They cannot protect themselves against him, and they will shudder when they feel the very taint that flows through him, without him having to utter a single spell. The mere suggestion that he is a master of the arcane will cause them to tremble with fear (and perhaps pee their pants :shock: .

Now let's assume that one villager runs to the local lord's keep to infom him that there is a Sorcerer who has entered the village square and scaring the locals, disrupting the peasants. The lord calls to him his squire, several Yeomen and a Petit Sergeant and heads to the village to bring this abomination to justice. The lord, being a charismatic individual, fills his soldiers hearts with hope against this foe clearly in league with demons. He finds the Sorcerer threatening a serf for infomation and strikes with his men. He overpowers him through superior numbers, and after several days of torture, the Sorcerer is burned at the stake in the very village square he terrorized the day earlier.

Now keep in mind, there are two sides to every story: Perhaps the Sorcerer just came into the town trying to track a horrible beast ravaging the countryside. Since the very essence of magic courses through the Sorcerer, it can have strange effects of those within his presence not used to his gift, and the peasents run in fear. As he tries to question one lone villager the local lord and his men abush him and "bring him to justice".

I think the traits cost all depends on the negatives associated with it. If this feeling is strong enough to warrant a -2 D to all chasismatic checks, people are REALLY uncomfortable around him. Lesser people will flee, but other men of power will seek this threat out, and almost certainly with superior numbers.

What I'd suggest is to keep in mind how serious damaging the negatives are here. You could keep a 2/3 point cost (free for those with the gift), assuming it's on all the time (or requires a high Will Ob to lessen/mute temporarily), but strictly enforce the way it played. The character is branded as a wielder of the supernatural (whether he is or isn't), and will fear/hate him.

Just my comments, hope they help.

Claymore

[eruditus]

So after some suggestions here is the rewrite...


Aura of the Unnatural
Die Trait, 2 pts
As the power of ages courses through your veins those around you are affected. All in your presence have a visceral reaction to you. Bile may rises to their throats, they may instinctively hold their breath, or get fidgety when you look at them. Persuassion, Haggling and similar roles that require charm and finesse are at a double obstacle penalty as do Stealthy and Inconspicuous tests. Roles that require fear and Intimidation are at a +1D bonus. All those with the trait, Gifted, get his as a bonus trait. Anyone can buy it though. Without supernatural implications this could also be dubbed "creepy."

In addition two other traits can be added to the mileu (sp ???)

Mark of the Unnatural
Die Trait, 1 point
As Aura of the Unnatural except the Sorcerer has a particular reaction that is unique to her. Anyone who is around the sorcerer or is exposed to this reaction will, in time, be able to identify the sorcerer anytime he comes in contact with her.

Sorcerous Subtlety
Call On Trait, 1 point
This is the ability to supress the effects of one's Aura with a Will test at Ob 4. This ability acts as a spell (remove one WIll die as if sustaining a spell) and can only be taken by those with the Gifted trait.

Witch Marked
Call on trait, 1 point
Something touched you and now you are aware of the passing of those with Sorcerous ways. You can "feel" the presence of one with the Gifted trait. You cannot always tell where they are but the signs are unmistakable when you touch a caster. The best uses of this trait are subtle - your elbow aches, your ears ring or your birthmark burns.

What do folk think?

[luke]

Now i've been a GM for a fair amount of time, and I've put my players through what many people would deem as some unsavory sessions. But I have to admit I've never been able to justify arresting and executing a PC for being, well, a PC.

Eru, Claymore, you are telling me you've done this?

-abzu

[eruditus]

Right now my players are walking on egg shells...

There is a troll war camp hosting a thousand trolls with the character's understanding that if they are found they will be killed and eaten... not neccessarily in that order.

Sometimes the threat of lynching is good enough to establish atmosphere and motivate players. The group certainly isn't going to send in the necromancer to do their negotiating. Besides, the player has been playing "creepy" a little too well :)

[Durgil]

In the Hârn setting, there is the Guild of Arcane Lore that polices their own members. One of their own who brings down the scorn of the mundanes on the order is declared renegade and is hunted down and taken care of. :twisted: That puts a limit on how flashing a sorcerer wants to be in a civilized area.

[Claymore]

Now i've been a GM for a fair amount of time, and I've put my players through what many people would deem as some unsavory sessions. But I have to admit I've never been able to justify arresting and executing a PC for being, well, a PC.

Eru, Claymore, you are telling me you've done this?

-abzu

Hehe, you are joking right :wink:

I'm a real bastard :x . If a character does something STUPID he very well may be captured/tortured/killed. I clearly state the scope of the saga, what opinions and views are, at the start of the campaign. I traditionally restict mage types 1 per player per campaign (or every player gets to play one). They are special, they are powerful, but in my world there are many places where magic and those that practice it risk breakly local, state, religious, as well as popular law. Those that see magic tend to either run or watch with awe, as it is so rare.

I once started a campaign several years ago in a similar feudal type setting (almost all my games are low magic feudal). One character HAD to play a mage. I agreed, but explained to him that use of magic was punishable by law by the church, who also had great influence with state law (the barans). Hre said no problems, and begin to create a Necromancer. After seeing his character I again pointed out, that magic is considered evil, and necromancy (the summoning of the dead) is considered the worst of all magic, and he would have problems just poppping up skeletons to serve him at the local graveyard. He said, fair enough, no problems, and finished the character.

He met the other characters along the road riding an undead steed (being a lowly peasant he could not afford a horse, so he just raised someone else's from a battlefield. The party, being someone concerned, retrained him, while he declared, "you don't understand, I'm a good necromancer, corpses for Christ!" They decided to turn him over to the local lord for questioning who promptly burned him at the stake. Total encounter 15 minutes. He then rolled up a second character :D

Now I'll admit, the party also had a say in that, but if a group of NPCs had come across him, the result would of most likely been the same. In my current campaign there was 1 mage throughout the campaign who is constantly running from a local bishop set to kill him, who has even set church spies after him.

In my campaign, while magic is powerful, is must be used subtly to avoid attention. With the trait eruditus has been so kind to write up, the power of a Sorcerer can be detected without him actually using magic. If your campaign is similar to Forgotten Relams, where every mage flies around, where every city is lit by light spells, where watching a magical duel in your grainfield is to be expected once every few years, then rule as originally written is underpriced. But in my campaign word it would be a serious disadvantage, worth no more than a single point for non casters, and free for casters. But that's because of the way my campaign is set up.


Die Trait, 2 pts
As the power of ages courses through your veins those around you are affected. All in your presence have a visceral reaction to you. Bile may rises to their throats, they may instinctively hold their breath, or get fidgety when you look at them. Persuassion, Haggling and similar roles that require charm and finesse are at a double obstacle penalty. Roles that require fear and Intimidation are at a +1D bonus. All those with the trait, Gifted, get his as a bonus trait. Anyone can buy it though. Without supernatural implications this could also be dubbed "creepy."



I like your revision of the trait eruditus, but I would do two things. First, I'd add the stealth penalty, it makes perfect sense. Two, I'd have an option to surpress the most severe affect (the bile in the throat bit, which I consider more serious than the die shifts) with a Willpower Obstacle test (3 sounds ok). The modifiers stay (+1/-1), due to uneasiness, but the pople are not sure why they are uncomfortable, although they may figure out later. The mage would have to concentrate to do this, and the second the mage even attempts to cast a spell, it would turn right back on. He might even have to test for tax while supressing the trait. Again, this is assuming a mage/hate campaign. You might play things differently.

As a quick side note, in my current campaign another character rolled up a mage (the current mage has been deployed, he's US Army). The first thing he did in triumph was to declare that he took the Aura of Innocence trait, which would make it harder for people to spot him as a mage. His smile quickly left his face after I asked him "You did already pay for the Gifted trait, right?". Sadly he had to lose it, but this is the attitude of my players when it comes to magic. Note that there is a flip side to this. In a four year campaign, I think they have come across 1 enemy mage. While they may once in a while fight a troll or a barrow wight, most of their enemies are real world foes. 8)

Hope this helps,

-Claymore

[Drozdal]

Claymore: Let's consider what would happen when this character wanders into the local village. The peasants cower to him, run, or do what he asks of them because of fear. They cannot protect themselves against him, and they will shudder when they feel the very taint that flows through him, without him having to utter a single spell. The mere suggestion that he is a master of the arcane will cause them to tremble with fear (and perhaps pee their pants .


Hmm i was thinking bout giving -die to steel when you see undeads - skeletons and zombies (bacause those are more popular amongst gm's) - so you can be pretty sure that when some serfs take a peek at them they'll run screaming (or give this to reaction or something) - maybe that was covered in books i do not have them with me atm .

thx Claymore

Drozdal

[Claymore]

Hmm i was thinking bout giving -die to steel when you see undeads - skeletons and zombies (bacause those are more popular amongst gm's) - so you can be pretty sure that when some serfs take a peek at them they'll run screaming (or give this to reaction or something) - maybe that was covered in books i do not have them with me atm .

thx Claymore

Drozdal

Not sure if it's in the book or not, but after reading the steel rules I though the same thing. I re-read the Lord of the Rings recently, and at the Bridge of Khazad-dum when Legolas missfires his bow and screams "ahi, ahi, a Balrog!" and Gimli drops his Ax and covers his eyes while muttering "Durin's Bane!" I thought that's a blown steel test.

I'd personally modify steel tests based upon your opponent and your knowledge of your opponent. First time fighting skeletons, steel test. 10th time fighting skeletons, whoop, big deal, unless they have had problems with them in the past. As for a Balrog, first time you see it, serious steel test. First time you see a Balrog and you know exactly what it is (as in Legolas's and Gimli's case) VERY SERIOUS steel test.


-Claymore

[Drozdal]

I'd personally modify steel tests based upon your opponent and your knowledge of your opponent. First time fighting skeletons, steel test. 10th time fighting skeletons, whoop, big deal, unless they have had problems with them in the past. As for a Balrog, first time you see it, serious steel test. First time you see a Balrog and you know exactly what it is (as in Legolas's and Gimli's case) VERY SERIOUS steel test.


Yess that was exactly what i was thinking! Great! I love to see those serfs run big time!!! :twisted:
BTW did i mention that was another good idea i came up with when was sitting in the toilet - it begins to kinda worry me :?

Drozdal

[luke]

Don't "minus dice" from character Steel when they see something scary. INCREASE OBSTACLE (which increases Hesitation...).

page 34 of the Burning Wheel has sample steel test modifiers.

The Summoning rules also contains traits for demons and such that cause "serious" Steel tests.


i recently gave a player an Ob 10 Steel test...and he passed it...without artha. Sheesh, no fun at all.
-abzu

[eruditus]

i recently gave a player an Ob 10 Steel test...and he passed it...without artha. Sheesh, no fun at all.
-abzu

My deepest apologies to the underaged and the easily offended but ...

Holy FUCK! Ob 10 Steel test? No Artha? I would check those dice there abzu. My players crap their pants when they need four successes. Bad players, so to speak... many traitors.

[luke]

hrm.

yah. it was taken for seeing a demon.
he's got a high steel as it is. he got all successes, plus many sixes.

needless to say, i was not pleased! my big surprise didn't even get a blink!

farf.

-abzu

[mike_ravenwood]

on the evil gm track, I a 3d D&D game I once killed four 4th level PC's with a gelatinous cube. It was dark and foggy. All 4 failed their spot checks and walked smack into it. Then all 4 failed their Fort saves for paralysis. Cube ate them and they all rolled new characters. That was an evil game though (in thier opinion) everyone started bringing extra characters so they wouldn't have to waste time rolling up new ones. I think D&D should be run with teeth.The Tarasque and a ghostly beholder in the same encounter kind of teeth.

I hearby appologize to all who don't play D&D and have no clue what I'm on about.

[eruditus]

on the evil gm track, I a 3d D&D game I once killed four 4th level PC's with a gelatinous cube.

hmmm, Gelatinous Cube. Fond memories of poking our heads into a hall way from a secret door. We'd know the cube was wandering through but were never quite certain if it was on the other side of the dungeon or we just couldn't see it.

As silly and relatively shallow as D&D can be there is a certain pathos to a game where the PCs decide to put a character out of his misery from afar as he's being eaten by the cube.

[Claymore]

on the evil gm track, I a 3d D&D game I once killed four 4th level PC's with a gelatinous cube. It was dark and foggy. All 4 failed their spot checks and walked smack into it. Then all 4 failed their Fort saves for paralysis. Cube ate them and they all rolled new characters. That was an evil game though (in thier opinion) everyone started bringing extra characters so they wouldn't have to waste time rolling up new ones. I think D&D should be run with teeth.The Tarasque and a ghostly beholder in the same encounter kind of teeth.

I hearby appologize to all who don't play D&D and have no clue what I'm on about.

Hehe, a Disciple in training :twisted:

BTW, if you still play 3e, I just go my reviewer copies of 3.5 (the general release will occur at Gen-Con). They did a very good job on the DMG, and a fair/good job on the others.

-Claymore

[eruditus]

Shite!

Well, I tried to quote myself and I ended up editting instead. You can read my rewrite and additions on the first page.

Sorry