Jin Lingzhi vs. Lei Bao Zhong commentary

[Yagathai]

What's this? Another monk?

I don't want Lei to be known as "Monkslayer", you know.

[Thor Olavsrud]

What's this? Another monk?

I don't want Lei to be known as "Monkslayer", you know.

Just a penniless scribe. Who looks like he hasn't eaten in about a month.

[Yagathai]

This bodes ill. :?

[Kublai]

Send me your 1st Exchange scripts!

[jc_madden]

Oh so Jin Vaults away and the crowd goes wild, Po avoids away and it's all snores. Hmph.


j/k guys this is cool, I hope jin does better than I did.

[Yagathai]

I don't.

[Yagathai]

They always run away the first volley. Why is that?

And also, those first two block-strikes were supposed to be with my spear, not my kicky-kicky.

[Verrain]

Apparently you inspire fear. Its a compliment really.

[Yagathai]

Must be the demonic facemask.

Maybe if I styled it to resemble a large, cuddly teddy bear?

[Verrain]

And then hit them while they're laughing? It has merit.

Of course a warrior brave and skilled enough to wear a cuddy teddy mask into battle might inspire even more fear.

Tough call.

[Kublai]

Man! If this were Star Wars: Battlefronts, the computer would be yelling at you guys that you are about to leave the battlefield! :twisted:

[Yagathai]

If it weren't for Cap'n Track and Field over there, we wouldn't have this problem.

[Thor Olavsrud]

If it weren't for Cap'n Track and Field over there, we wouldn't have this problem.

:twisted:

[Verrain]

A Tekken style Ring Out victory option would make for some interesting scenarios in this I suppose. :)

[jc_madden]

Great Push would become uber.

[Yagathai]

Tekken doesn't have ring out. You're thinking Soulcalibur/Soulblade.

(disclaimer: I am an obsessive, formerly-nationally-ranked Tekken player)

[Yagathai]

I predict it's all over by next exchange.

[jc_madden]

but for whom? that's the question.

[Yagathai]

Only the Heavens know.

[jc_madden]

What happend to "Victory to the Righteous"? :P

[Verrain]

I'm waiting for the double kill myself. One good simultaneous stirke and they are both down on the floor missing key organs and vertebrae.

[Yagathai]

Which one of us is the more righteous, do you think?

[jc_madden]

Well you're the one with it on your shield aren't you? I always thought you were being cheeky when you said.

[Yagathai]

Sure, but if he kills me and takes my shield...

[Yagathai]

Kublai, you're such a tease. You pop onto the forums, and just when I think you're going to post the next round of combat... poof!

If I didn't know better, I'd say that you had a day job. ;)

[luke]

Dude, watch out for the Dagon Tail Kick. He's trying to turn you into a Deep One!

-L

[Yagathai]

Didn't know the fish-folk had their own martial arts, eh?

Just wait until I whip out the unstoppable Black-Goat-of-the-Hills-With-a-Thousand-Young stance, and get all Old One on your ass.

[Thor Olavsrud]

sigh. I did not understand that Avoid does not benefit from Dash. Sucks to be me.

[luke]

i don't understand where the B7 Incidental hit came from.

I smell broken martial art.

All the TPD Power upgrades should count as weapon Power upgrades...
If I'm not mistaken, the book lists them as straight bonuses to IMS -- which breaks game convention.

B7 Incidental hit.
:x

[Kublai]

Une Cheong Baram, dude. Look it up. 8) Base Power 6 + 3 from Iron Fist = B5 incidental +2 from UCB = B7.

Crap, I think I made a terrible error. No, not about the Incidental Hit, but whether or not Zhong was in range to hit Jin.

Okay, so they start out at 5 paces, in range for Zhong 4 pace Sprinting Leap Kick. However, Jin has a supreme speed advantage and can move 4 paces with his Dash. Jin's intent during the Volley was to get within 3 paces of Zhong. Thus I ruled that Zhong was within range.

I am so confused. Can we switch over to the new movement rules, yet? :oops:

[Kublai]

If I'm not mistaken, the book lists them as straight bonuses to IMS -- which breaks game convention.

Oh, and not having to split up your Counter dice doesn't break game convention? ::cough::Kim Do::cough::

[luke]

If I'm not mistaken, the book lists them as straight bonuses to IMS -- which breaks game convention.

Oh, and not having to split up your Counter dice doesn't break game convention? ::cough::Kim Do::cough::

die pools are fluid and manipulable. deliberately so. IMS is a pretty fixed function, and toying with it since it has such a fixed range, greatly distorts results.

-L

[Thor Olavsrud]

Crap, I think I made a terrible error. No, not about the Incidental Hit, but whether or not Zhong was in range to hit Jin.

Okay, so they start out at 5 paces, in range for Zhong 4 pace Sprinting Leap Kick. However, Jin has a supreme speed advantage and can move 4 paces with his Dash. Jin's intent during the Volley was to get within 3 paces of Zhong. Thus I ruled that Zhong was within range.

I am so confused. Can we switch over to the new movement rules, yet? :oops:

Im so ready! The intent was to get in lunging distance of the spear, not a kick! :(

[jc_madden]

So does that last action stand as written? If so Jin is knee deep in the pu pu platter.

[luke]

The intent was to get in lunging distance of the spear, not a kick! :(

To give Yag credit, that kick has the range of his Charge.

-L

[Thor Olavsrud]

The intent was to get in lunging distance of the spear, not a kick! :(

To give Yag credit, that kick has the range of his Charge.

-L

Sure. But what is the lunging distance of a kick? Is 3 paces Outside lunging distance? Or 4?

[luke]

Sure. But what is the lunging distance of a kick? Is 3 paces Outside lunging distance? Or 4?

You're up late!

To parse the paces math (perhaps for the last time ::sniff::):
You started that volley 5 paces apart.
Yag sprinted forward.
You dashed to the side, ostensibly maintaining your current distance/position.
I don't know Yag's character's Speed, but assuming an athletic B5 Speed, he could leap kick 6 paces in one volley.
If you had a "retreat" move, I might've ruled in your favor. But 'cording to the basic pace math, he tagged ya.

Don't worry, you'll unman him when the revision rears its ugly head. Yag'll be too busy frothing at the mouth to script properly.

-L

PS You better be up late readin' some Orcs...

[Thor Olavsrud]

You still havnt answered the question though. What is outside lunging distance for a kick?

[luke]

You still havnt answered the question though. What is outside lunging distance for a kick?

a regular kick has a one pace striking distance. i don't undestand what you're getting at, though.

-L

[Thor Olavsrud]

a regular kick has a one pace striking distance. i don't undestand what you're getting at, though.


I needed to know so I could figure out where I went wrong: whether I miscalculated or it was a more fundamental misunderstanding of the system. One misunderstanding is already clear: Your opponent does not receive a +1 Ob when you are dashing as part of an Avoid. Oops.

But I think what this volley really illustrates is why the current Paces system is so problematic. I've tried to diagram it to show the viewers at home why.

First, the basic parameters. Jin and Zhong are 5 paces apart. Jin has a dash of 4 paces and Zhong has a sprint of 6 paces. My stated intent was to allow Zhong into lunging distance for the spear (3 paces) and no closer. So, in my figuring, it came down to a basic calculation: 6p-5p+4p=5p.

This was complicated by an additional factor in my intent, which was that I wanted to move sideways to get onto a boulder that would give Zhong an additional +1 Ob to hit Jin.

Here's the initial position:
Jin
|
|
|
|
|
Zhong

Now Jin is moving sideways, while Zhong is presumably sprint forward. Here's how it would look after the movement was completed (J stands for Jin's original position, Z stands for Zhong's original position:

Zhong
|
J-|-|-|-|Jin
|
|
|
|
Z

So if the movement had been completed, Zhong would actually have been 4 paces to the side and 1 pace above Jin. That's clearly not what happened, which we know because Jin is intercepted before he reaches the boulder.

First we need to look at what the rules say. It's important to note that while combat Actions are broken apart in a volley, the tandem movement takes place across the entire volley. The pertinent bit seems to be on p. 156: "Usually, the first action falls as they start to move and their second comes at the end of their movement."

So how to exactly parse that? If the first action in the volley we're discussing took place "as they start to move" then both characters are Outside of striking distance for the first action. Or we can decide that the characters get half their movement in the first action, and half in the second:

J-|-|Jin
|
|Zhong
|
|
Z
Here Zhong is two paces below and two paces to the left of Jin. As far as Striking Distance is concerned, is that two paces or three paces apart? I'm not sure.

The other possibility is that Zhong intuits where Jin is going, and moves diagonally toward him:

Zhong
|
J-|-|Jin
|
|--/Zhong
|-/
|/
Z

Here, it is clear that only two paces separate the opponents. The only problem I have with this rules-wise is that it gives Zhong an unfair advantage. He is allowed to intuit where Jin is going, but Jin cannot do the same for Zhong. To be fair, we'd have to declare exactly which direction both of us are moving (you'd have to script right or left).

Anyway, this sort of stuff drives me crazy, and Pete and Luke too. Which is why the revision scraps this system and goes with Positioning instead. The Positioning system is much more abstract than the paces system, but it actually allows you to state your intent and really carry it through. It's just as tactical (if not more so) without all the headaches.

[Kublai]

You still havnt answered the question though. What is outside lunging distance for a kick?

Lunging Distance for his Leaping Kick is 5 paces!

[Thor Olavsrud]

You still havnt answered the question though. What is outside lunging distance for a kick?

Lunging Distance for his Leaping Kick is 5 paces!

I wasn't including the Sprint movement, just lunging distance from the body.

[Kublai]

Lunging distance for a standing kick is 2 paces.

[Yagathai]

1 success on 7 dice?

Ouch. :x

[Thor Olavsrud]

1 success on 7 dice?

Ouch. :x

You got 5 successes on your kick! No whining. :P

Besides, I'm pretty sure you'll knock me about at least once more (B7 Incidental? Ooph!) before I finish my hesitation. That would take me out.

[Yagathai]

I can't do that B7 Incidental thing all the time. It's the flying kick from Tae Poong Do. My regular unarmed I is a B5.

Which is still juicy, I know, but not quite as painful.

[Yagathai]

On another note, why oh why oh why doesn't your character wear armor?

[Thor Olavsrud]

Too expensive. And he wasn't supposed to get hit. :lol:

[Yagathai]

But even a suit of inferior quality quilted. Something. Anything!

[Thor Olavsrud]

But even a suit of inferior quality quilted. Something. Anything!

It just didn't fit with the concept. Anyway, you had to get 7 successes to tag me. That's pretty damn hard, even with a Gray skill. It was a gamble. And you still only got me with an Incidental. It just happened to be a B7 Incidental!

[Yagathai]

Ah, concept. It's a killer.

[Yagathai]

Matters are approaching a head. I feel that the Will of Heaven will become known in this next volley.

[foxandwarlock]

Two words here.....

Show.....boats.

:twisted:

[Yagathai]

Not going to accept my generous proposal, Thor? ;)

[Yagathai]

*chokes*

Now I understand. If I could be rolling 8 grey dice with a midi wound, I wouldn't be surrendering either!

[Kublai]

Thor is FoRK master. :roll:

[Yagathai]

Yeah, but FOUR ForK die on a staff attack? I could see two, maybe three if you stretch it, but I can't figure out where he's getting that fourth one.

I bow before the master!

[Thor Olavsrud]

Yeah, but FOUR ForK die on a staff attack? I could see two, maybe three if you stretch it, but I can't figure out where he's getting that fourth one.

I bow before the master!

She Ding Shen (Serpent-Sting Staff) as base skill. Tae Poong Do, Drunken Mantis Style, Staff, Spear as FoRKs. :wink:

[jc_madden]

She Ding Shen (Serpent-Sting Staff)

TM

:lol:

[Yagathai]

You get a ForK for two different unarmed styles? That hurts, man. That really smarts.

[Thor Olavsrud]

You get a ForK for two different unarmed styles? That hurts, man. That really smarts.

:wink:

It's standard practice to FoRK Brawling into Weapons skills (knife, sword, etc.) Same principle holds for martial arts.

[jc_madden]

Yes indeedie, my new character is based soley on the principle of "if I knew then what I know now..." heh heh

[Yagathai]

Sure, but getting two different ForK die for two different martial art styles, I don't know if I buy. You're saying that if you opened up Kimdo and Brawl, you'd get another two ForK die? Then you'd be throwing 12 dice for your melee skill. That's not nice.

[Thor Olavsrud]

Sure, but getting two different ForK die for two different martial art styles, I don't know if I buy. You're saying that if you opened up Kimdo and Brawl, you'd get another two ForK die? Then you'd be throwing 12 dice for your melee skill. That's not nice.

Well, Kimdo would be a mistake, because then I couldn't Strike, and half my arts go out the window. Brawl is a possibility with General points.

Anyway, as we've clearly seen, even a G10 skill is no good if you get hit. :lol:

[Yagathai]

Hmmm. Well, I guess that's the rules as they stand.

Personally, I'm in favour of limiting it to one Martial Art/Boxing, one Brawl and possibly a third one if it's the same as the one your opponent is using. I'm also not sure about ForKing it both Spear and Staff -- I feel that the training would overlap enough so that you couldn't realistically squeeze out another ForK die from the Spear skill.

[Kublai]

FYI, I edited down the dice he rolled. Not because I disallowed any FoRKs, but his -2D wound eliminated his Staff, Spear, and TPD to zero! You can't FoRK zero exponent skills.

[Thor Olavsrud]

true enough.

[Yagathai]

Hmm. That answers my question in the Burning Wheel forum. :oops:

[Thor Olavsrud]

Hmmm. Well, I guess that's the rules as they stand.

Personally, I'm in favour of limiting it to one Martial Art/Boxing, one Brawl and possibly a third one if it's the same as the one your opponent is using. I'm also not sure about ForKing it both Spear and Staff -- I feel that the training would overlap enough so that you couldn't realistically squeeze out another ForK die from the Spear skill.

It's not really a problem in play. As a GM, if any player submitted the character I've been using for a campaign, I'd kick 'em in the shins. He's by no means a well-rounded character. But these are combat toons, so it's a different story.

[Yagathai]

For reasonable players, that's not an issue. But someone who pulls a Noble --> Cavalryman ---> Knight ---> Knight, which is a perfectly reasonable LP combo as far as I'm concerned, will have, what... 30 skill points? You can well-round a character like that and still have a half-dozen skill points left over to open up gratuitous forks.

I'm just saying there ought to be some sort of cap written into the rules, is all.

(of course, the BGD disagrees)

[Thor Olavsrud]

For reasonable players, that's not an issue. But someone who pulls a Noble --> Cavalryman ---> Knight ---> Knight, which is a perfectly reasonable LP combo as far as I'm concerned, will have, what... 30 skill points? You can well-round a character like that and still have a half-dozen skill points left over to open up gratuitous forks.

I'm just saying there ought to be some sort of cap written into the rules, is all.

(of course, the BGD disagrees)

You can't take Cavalryman without taking a lifepath related to horses anymore. You still get a lot of skill points with those lifepaths, but the Trainings really add up. Almost all of the Cavalryman's skillpoints would go toward paying for Riding, Armor Training, Shield Training, and Mounted Combat.

Also, Any GM worth his salt will tell you that the weapons appropriate to a Knight/Cavalryman are limited. You've basically got Lance, Sword, Mace, Knives and Brawling. Spear is not really appropriate unless he's served as a foot knight. Generally, the way we play, you can only FoRK knives if you're using a knife in the off-hand, though I could see a case for getting it if fighting a knife-fighter. Lance is used too differently from a sword or mace on foot to benefit. Although I could certainly see Sword FoRKing into Lance while mounted.

So really, a Knight wielding a sword would benefit from brawling and possibly mace, although some GMs would disallow the Mace. A mounted knight might FoRK in his Riding, if he's not using it to direct his mount, that's a judgment call.

Also, we usually don't have characters start with skills above B5. B6 is really for masters. B5 would be the best swordsman in the country.

[Yagathai]

As far as knightly weapons go, you're forgetting Flail, Axe, Hammer, Polearm & Military Pick. And personally I'd allow a Spear ForK into Lance, myself.

I still maintain that there are enough ways to engineer multiple ForK skills (general points, anybody?) that there ought to be a stated cap of some sort. It'd take two or three lines, and would put the kaibosh on the most egregious min-maxing.

[Kublai]

Since Abzu himself has done such abusive FoRKing in actual play, I doubt we'll see any written cap. It's always gonna be at the GM's discretion.

[Yagathai]

Alas.

[jc_madden]

Since Abzu himself ...

Ah the trump card.

[Kublai]

Yeah, Abzu played some kind of merchant with a G6 Persuasion and 3 social FoRKs. 9 grey dice! NPCs were putty in his hands. That campaign went nowhere fast.

[Drozdal]

Yeah, Abzu played some kind of merchant with a G6 Persuasion and 3 social FoRKs. 9 grey dice! NPCs were putty in his hands. That campaign went nowhere fast.
Of course you forgot about his die-traits that allowed him to re-roll failures :roll:

[Thor Olavsrud]

Yeah, Abzu played some kind of merchant with a G6 Persuasion and 3 social FoRKs. 9 grey dice! NPCs were putty in his hands. That campaign went nowhere fast.
Of course you forgot about his die-traits that allowed him to re-roll failures :roll:

He's such an Abzu! :evil:

[luke]

Since Abzu himself has done such abusive FoRKing in actual play, I doubt we'll see any written cap. It's always gonna be at the GM's discretion.

Ah, the selective memory of jealousy. Still, I'm flattered that you remember that game at all, given the foggy nature of your recollection these days.

And if MY memory serves me, Master 'Blai, you weren't even in that game. So your anecdotal evidence is anecdotal at best. If you were there, you'd remember that I had to justify every single one of my FoRKs every time I had to roll, whether it was with my prime skill or not.

And, for the record, I got to roll my 9 dice twice in seven or eight sessions. Twice. A gray Haggling. Oooh, I was power-gaming, let me tell you! Whereas certain other characters were rolling their 9 dice every ten minutes.

So, to address the issue at hand: Use common sense and good judgement. Those FoRKs are not automatic or obligatory. FoRKs are completely situational. For example, Rich and I negotiate his social skill FoRKs every time he tries to persuade or lie to some one. And I quite often limit him to just one or two dice.

I'll check the revision and make sure this is explicit.
-L

[Yagathai]

Ob 9. The frightening thing is that were he at his full dice pool, that wouldn't be impossible.

[Viper]

Since Abzu himself has done such abusive FoRKing in actual play, I doubt we'll see any written cap. It's always gonna be at the GM's discretion.

Ah, the selective memory of jealousy. Still, I'm flattered that you remember that game at all, given the foggy nature of your recollection these days.

And if MY memory serves me, Master 'Blai, you weren't even in that game. So your anecdotal evidence is anecdotal at best. If you were there, you'd remember that I had to justify every single one of my FoRKs every time I had to roll, whether it was with my prime skill or not.

And, for the record, I got to roll my 9 dice twice in seven or eight sessions. Twice. A gray Haggling. Oooh, I was power-gaming, let me tell you! Whereas certain other characters were rolling their 9 dice every ten minutes.

So, to address the issue at hand: Use common sense and good judgement. Those FoRKs are not automatic or obligatory. FoRKs are completely situational. For example, Rich and I negotiate his social skill FoRKs every time he tries to persuade or lie to some one. And I quite often limit him to just one or two dice.

I'll check the revision and make sure this is explicit.
-L

munchkin.

[Thor Olavsrud]

munchkin.

Your munchkin evidence is munchkin at best.

[Viper]

No need to get snitty just because you're getting your ass whupped...

[Thor Olavsrud]

No need to get snitty just because you're getting your ass whupped...

More like head kicked in. :lol:

[Viper]

Ouch... just read the final outcome... poor Jin. :cry:

A good fight, though.

[Yagathai]

It was indeed. A close one, too. It could have gone either way.

[Thor Olavsrud]

It was indeed. A close one, too. It could have gone either way.

Again, pretty much came down to the application (or lack thereof) of a single +1Ob. Even with titanically skilled characters like these, a single misstep is fatal.

[Verrain]

Ouch!

So I guess this means the Pine Wind Temple is available now. ;)

Good fight all!

[jc_madden]

Yes, congrats to Yag on another fine victory. If he keeps racking up that Artha he's going to be even tougher to beat!

[Kublai]

Black 16 Superb. :cry:

[jc_madden]

So for even B10 superb has been leathal so I'd say it's just overkill. Now against a troll.... that's really good.

[Yagathai]

Actually, Kublai, my math has it different:

6 effective Pow + 3 for the martial art = 9

x 1.5 for Superb = 13.5

+2 for the flying kick = 15.5 -- which, rounded down, is a 15.

Now, if you take into account that it's a grey skill, and I get the +2 to my Mark for having effective grey power, then it's an 11 Mark, which means a 16 Superb, +2 for the flying kick is a G2.

But I'm not sure if you get the +2 to Mark with a grey skill and precision training without a high Doctrine/Philosophy. That question was never answered in the BW forum.

[Yagathai]

I ain't afraid of no troll*.

*that's a lie.

[Kublai]

What part of the following didn't answer your question?

All your answers can be found in the article in which Precision Training first appeared. (http://www.burningwheel.org/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=102)

Characters with Gray shade weapons/martial skills and Precision Training may have access to Gray shade damage so long as they have a Philosophy, Doctrine or Meditation skill of equal rank to their weapon skill. It is by channelling this philosophy through their martial skill that they are truly able to transcend.

[Kublai]

And I reconciled the Leaping Kick (and Circle Kick) with Abzu. Treat the bonus damage as power added to your Mark result.

Thus:

Skill 6 + Iron Fist 3 + Leap Kick 2 = 11 Mark, + 5 for Supoib = 16!

[Yagathai]

What part of the following didn't answer your question?

All your answers can be found in the article in which Precision Training first appeared. (http://www.burningwheel.org/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=102)

Characters with Gray shade weapons/martial skills and Precision Training may have access to Gray shade damage so long as they have a Philosophy, Doctrine or Meditation skill of equal rank to their weapon skill. It is by channelling this philosophy through their martial skill that they are truly able to transcend.

I'm not talking about doing Grey shade damage. I'm talking about the +2 to your black Mark result that is a result of having Grey power.

[Kublai]

I interpreted it as you do Grey damage when using the skill, no matter Hands of Stone or mundane weapon.

However, it's all moot for our immediate concerns. The concensus it that it's broken and won't be allowed in The Arena.

[Yagathai]

Ah, I see the distinction now. My interpretation was totally different.

I was under the impression that if you want to do unarmed grey damage with grey power, you need the Hands of Stone trait. Period.

Further, if you have a grey power (or power-equivalent) you can choose to do grey damage with a weapon, but unless it's also a grey weapon you run the risk of having it shatter in your grasp.

And finally, I thought that if you have a grey power (or power-equivalent) and you don't do grey damage either because you can't or you choose not to, you add 2 to your black Mark result.

Anyway, there goes one of my backup character builds. :oops:

[luke]

Congrats on your righteous victory, Yag.

I wish i had the revision with me so I could copy and paste, but I don't so I'll try to remember.

I think you're largely correct, but here goes:

You do gray damage with a gray weapon.
You can turn your hands to gray weapons with the Hands of Stone trait.

Gray Power sans HoS grants +2 Power to your Mark result.
I can't remember the weapon-breaking rules, but I'll look them up when I get home.

Precision training operates solely on the exponent of the skill. So gray shade skills don't confer the +2 Power bonus. Why? It's a double-whammy bonus in a very tight section of the game. Being able to increase your Power is bad enough, getting a further bonus is too much.

Also, Pete and I talked about Flying Kick. Pete, the designer of said move, agreed that it was broken. We also agreed on some changes:
Flying Kick acts like a Great Strike and a Charge. +1 Power, +1D for momentum. Must sprint/close with opponent, no sprinting penalty. Striking distance is sprinting distance. (uses skill in place of stat to close, in the positioning rules). Failure to hit indicates that the following action is spent Standing and Drooling.

Pete, did we give it knockdown/Charge ability, too? I forget.
-L

[Kublai]

Also, Pete and I talked about Flying Kick. Pete, the designer of said move, agreed that it was broken. We also agreed on some changes:
Flying Kick acts like a Great Strike and a Charge. +1 Power, +1D for momentum. Must sprint/close with opponent, no sprinting penalty. Striking distance is sprinting distance. (uses skill in place of stat to close, in the positioning rules). Failure to hit indicates that the following action is spent Standing and Drooling.

Pete, did we give it knockdown/Charge ability, too? I forget.
-L

That doesn't sound like what we talked about at all! :? I don't recall adding any Charge mechanics (if you're talking about knockback and such), except in the revision, where we described it as a Striking Charge, ei, you replace your Power with TPD, and base the damage on the results if you win the closing test. Failure to hit resulted in spending 2 actions standing and drooling. What is the +1D for momentum? You add that to the skill test?

The only parts above that look familiar is that it's a one action Great Strike you can do while Sprinting. I think you should be allowed to remain in stance, as well. If followed by a 2nd action in the same Volley, that action doesn't get the Sprint penalty as well. I still think it should add +2 Power to the Mark.

None of it really matters until the revision comes out, and even then until "The Burning Way" is released. Until then, the only change is that Power is added to the mark and not directly to the IMS.

[Yagathai]

This is fascinating.

[luke]

This is fascinating.

::sigh::

[Thor Olavsrud]

So let's see: Ob 5, no sprinting penalty, works as a single action Great Strike, +1 Power, +1D from Momentum. And possibly remaining in stance. Are you sure you don't want to add anything else to this? VA 5 maybe? :roll:

[luke]

So let's see: Ob 5, no sprinting penalty, works as a single action Great Strike, +1 Power, +1D from Momentum. And possibly remaining in stance. Are you sure you don't want to add anything else to this? VA 5 maybe? :roll:

Oh, you only pay the action/hesitation penalty if you miss. And you can perform a second (or third) action in the same volley without penalty.

with bells on.
-L

[Thor Olavsrud]

Now that Jin is no more, here are his stats:

Concept: A warrior monk left for dead, now seeking his master's muderer.

Character Name: Jin Linghzi

Jin Linghzi was happy at the Pine Wind Temple, where he was first apprentice to his beloved Master. Until Tiger Quan Liu led his students on a sneak attack and murdered almost everyone he had known and loved. Jin Linghzi had been in the Pine Wind Temple's inner sanctum with his elderly and ill Master, ready to defend the school's precious Martial Manual. But a single blow from Tiger Quan Liu sent Jin flying through the wall of the sanctum and into the courtyard, where the bodies of his slain appentice brothers and sisters lay scattered like broken dolls. Jin passed out from the pain, and awoke to find that he had been left for dead. The Temple had been burned and there were no survivors. Perhaps Siu-Lian, the Master's grand daughter and Jin's love still lived (she had been away in the south at the time), but for now, Jin has vowed to avenge his master and recover Pine Wind Temple's Martial Manual. Left in the middle of nowhere with almost no resources, he has survived months of privation, sapping both his strength and his will. But now he is on the trail, and manages to eke out a living as an itinerant scribe.

Lifepaths: Born Peasant, Itinerant Monk, Warrior Monk, Warrior Monk

Age: 27

Stats: Pe: B6 Wi: B3 Ag: B4 Sp: B6 Po: B3 Fo: B4

Attributes: Re: B6 Ste: B6 He: B3 MW: B10 Hesitation:7 Presence: 4 paces Resources: (18 pts total, 17 spent)

PTGS: Su: B3 Li: B5 Mi: B7 Se: B8 Tr: B9 Mo: B10

Skills: Doctrine B2, Reading B2, Writing B3, She Ding Shen (Serpent-Sting Staff Style) G6, Tae Poong Do B2, Drunken Mantis Style B4, Staff B2, Spear B2, Meditation B1

Martial Arts Maneuvers:
She Ding Shen: Springing Serpent Leap, Dance of the Cobra, Coiling Python, Two-Fang Strike, Snake Climbs the Tree, Adder Lightning Strike
Tae Poong Do: No-Face Kick
Drunken Mantis Style: Poise of the Praying Saint, Kneeling at Prayer Drunk, Folded Hands in Prayer

Gear: Run of the Mill Arms (Staff), Clothes (Kung Fu robes), Traveling Gear, Shoes, Quills/Ink, Paper

Association:

Contacts: Siu-Liang (loyal, insignificant), Tiger Quan Liu (important, hated)


Traits: Tonsured, Devoted, Disciplined, Quickened Pulse (round up Reflexes), Tough (round up MW), Fleet of Foot

Beliefs:
- Perfection of my Art will perfect my soul.
- I will recover my the Pine Wind Temple's Martial Manual.
- I will defeat Tiger Quan Liu for murdering my master.

Instincts:
- When meeting strangers, assess for Tiger Quan Liu's badge.
- If given the opportunity, assess opponents' styles before entering combat.
- Exercise each morning to regain strength.

She Ding Shen Maneuvers:
Ob 3 Springing Serpent Leap
Use Serpent-Sting Staff rather than Speed when Leaping (+3 paces).

Ob 3 Dance of the Cobra
The boxer may block and strike in the same action (as with shield training) when using a staff.

Ob 4 Coiling Python
The boxer may use his Serpent-Sting Staff rather than Power to trip (push) his opponent.

Ob 5 Two-Fang Strike
The boxer may now strike two opponents at once if they are on opposite sides of each other. Divide your dice between both attacks.

Ob 5 Snake Climbs the Tree
Utilizing the spring in his staff, the boxer may now use Serpent-Sting Staff in place of the Climb skill.

Ob 6 Adder Lightning Strike
The boxer may substitute Serpent-Sting Staff for Power in a Charge action.

Tae Poong Do Maneuvers:
Rising Attack
Kip-up. You know how this works. 1 Action.

Ob 1 No-Face Kick
No rear flank. Always facing opponent.

Drunken Mantis Style Maneuvers:
Devout Six-Legged Inebriation (free with skill)
The most basic practice of the art is to learn to move like the mantis and to make four limbs into six. Through this technique the Drunken Mantis Boxer may act as normal so long as any of his two limbs touch the ground in a hands-down or foot-down position.

Thus if a DM boxer is knocked prone, he needs only one action to get a hand or foot under him in the proper position before he is ready to fight again. Note, he is not on his feet at all, he's just shifted his balance to available limbs.

Poise of the Preying Saint Ob 2
The mantis can remain perfectly motionless for great lengths of time. The Drunken Mantis Boxer may use this ability to FoRK Drunken Mantis style into Stealthy tests that require motionlessness or Meditation tests in general.

Kneeling at Prayer, Drunk Ob 3
The mantis sways, seemingly unsteady on her feet, but this is a ruse to lure the unwary. Drunken Mantis Boxers may Avoid without taking a retreating step -- they may hold their position while performing this maneuver.

Folded Hands in Prayer Ob 4
Once a mantis has closed her limbs on her prey, nothing can escape her grip! When an opponent is trying to break out of a mantis' lock, the lock dice count double. Thus if a mantis has a 1D lock on someone, the defender must get two successes to knock off that one die.

Weapon I M S Add WSpd VA
Bare Fist 2 4 6 2 F -
Staff (Thrust) 4 7 10 2 F -
Staff (Smash) 4 8 12 2 S -