Martial Arts Maneouvers

[Yagathai]

Here's a question -- can strike-type martial arts maneouvers be added to block/strike or the strike half of counterstrike maneouvers?

Let's say I had the Tae Poong Do Push Kick thing and a warfan in my off-hand. Assuming that I had the appropriate shield training, could I block/push kick? And if so, would I have to script block/push kick, or just block/strike?

[Kublai]

yes. you can use shield training with any weapon or brawling.

Script Block/Push Kick.

[Yagathai]

Thank you, King Succinct. ;)

[luke]

wait! I thought we just ruled that Kimdo could not do a Counter including a Great Push. What gives?

-L

[Kublai]

true enough. Blocking Strike and Push Kicks are two seperate moves.

[luke]

so what's the answer to Yag's question?

:twisted:

[Kublai]

I believe the intent of the question was to ask "Can I use Shield Training with any Weapon/Brawling/Boxing skill?" The answer to that is "yes!"

If his answer was if he could use a Push Kick in tandem with a Blocking Strike, I say "no."

[Kublai]

As you can see, I didn't read his question at all! :oops:

[Thor]

so what's the answer to Yag's question?

:twisted:

That you confused him!

Yag,

A Blocking-Strike is a very specific maneuver that you get from Shield Training/Two-Fisted Training. It's very much like a Counterstrike, except you are blocking with an off-hand shield/weapon and striking with the other weapon.

So to answer your question, you could not do a Blocking-Push-Kick. However, you could script a Blocking-Strike where you block with the Fan and strike with a kick.

[Yagathai]

I think that we ought to re-think that. For example, why shouldn't someone who can do a +1 IMS strike be able to use that particular strike with shield training? Someone with counter-Strike should likewise be able to counter-Sweep Kick, assuming they can sweep kick, and ditto counter-push and Great Push.

[jc_madden]

I think that Great-Anything should ALWAYS be a single manuver. They're just too powerfull to be combined with anything unless it's the Ob9 ability of that art.

[Kublai]

As long as the second part is always some form of Strike (except Great strike), I would agree to Yagathai's opinion.

[Thor]

As far as I'm concerned, Tae Poong Do's special punches and kicks are strikes, and therefore qualify. However, Throws and Pushes and the like shouldn't benefit.

If you want to do a Blocking-Push or a Blocking-Throw, take develop a Martial Art for it.

[Yagathai]

Sure -- but then why shouldn't a Kimdo guy with Great Throw be allowed to counter-Great-Throw? If he can do it by itself, surely he ought to be able to do it with his opponent's attacking momentum to help him.

[jc_madden]

For game balance I'd imagine. It would be incredibly unfair if I had thrown you 4 paces instead of 2 when I counter-threw you.

[Yagathai]

I disagree. Your character was a master of the martial arts. You should be able to throw people clear the fuck across the room. Otherwise, what's the point?

Especially throws. Throws depends more on the momentum of your opponent than any other attack style.

[Thor]

Sure -- but then why shouldn't a Kimdo guy with Great Throw be allowed to counter-Great-Throw? If he can do it by itself, surely he ought to be able to do it with his opponent's attacking momentum to help him.

Because I wasn't clear when I made my last statement. :oops:

For Tae Poong Do, I think only Iron Fist Level 1, 2, and 3 should be able to be used with a Blocking-Strike. The rest have special effects.

[Thor]

I disagree. Your character was a master of the martial arts. You should be able to throw people clear the fuck across the room. Otherwise, what's the point?

Especially throws. Throws depends more on the momentum of your opponent than any other attack style.

When you perform a Counter-Throw, you're not really using their momentum as much anymore. You are blocking their Strike and then Throwing. You are not committing to the Throw in the same way as if you just script Throw (or Great Push, or whatever).

[jc_madden]

I have two standpoints here. Here a Game standpoint it shouldnt be allowed unless it's an ability of the martial art, it's just not fair. From a martial arts perspective (and i've taken several) I know that it "should" be possible because Yag's right your oppoenent's momentum is actually the largest factor even if you're doing a blocking throw.

[Kublai]

Considering Game Balance, I will have to back off from my reversal and stick by the rules as is. When using a Blocking Strike, you cannot perform any special moves, since Blocking Strike is technically it's own special move.

However, any latent special abilities, such as Tae Poong Do's Iron Fist, still count.

[tetsujin28]

I have to admit, that I've never even looked at the MA appendix in BW. But know, I feel like I have to :oops:

[Yagathai]

OK, Kublai, then riddle me this: Is Counterstrike also considered a "special move", or can I counter-push-kick?

[Kublai]

As it stands, you can't combine any special moves into a standard Counter-strike.

So the answer is no, you cannot Counter-Push Kick. :(

[Yagathai]

That's OK. I just wanted an excuse to say "riddle me this".

Also, the martial arts burner thingie that I'm working on may shake things up a bit.

[luke]

Now that that is over...

That was the original intent of the rules. Everbody learns Countestrike. Then we develop special maneuvers for recombining the various moves.

(Also, if you're a giving GM, everyone can know Counter-Disarm and Counter-Lock.)

-L

[Yagathai]

Just to give you some idea, I'm busy deconstructing the regular moves that everyone has access to as its own "fighting style". A Great Strike, for example, is a

Strike +2, Hard
- Unblockable +3
- +1 IMS +2
- Must Hesitate 1 action -2

Total Ob. 5, Hard


Whereas the flying Tae Poong Do Kick is

Strike: +2, Hard
- Unblockable: +3
- +2 IMS: +3
- May hesitate 2 actions: -2

Total Ob. 6, Hard

Tae Poong Do is a Hard style, and so gets Hard techniques at -1 Ob cost.

Most of the existing martial art techniques listed can be deconstructed in this way. More to come later.

[Kublai]

Holy crap! Who knew! :D

[Yagathai]

Yeah, it's really quite fascinating once you strip it down to the nuts and bolts.

[Thor]

That's awesome Yag!