Pow 7 and VA

[Yagathai]

Three questions:

1) A Pow exponent of 7+ gives you +1 VA. Does this apply to thrown weapons as well?

2) Does it also apply if someone has a skill exponent of 7+ and they have Precision Training?

and peripherally related...

3) If someone has a grey skill and precision training, can they also choose to do grey damage? Previous thought has been yes, but I'm doublechecking because I don't seem to recall it being explicitly stated anywhere.

[Drozdal]

Three questions:

3) If someone has a grey skill and precision training, can they also choose to do grey damage? Previous thought has been yes, but I'm doublechecking because I don't seem to recall it being explicitly stated anywhere.

Afaik absolutely no. Grey damage can be dealt only with grey weapon, or hands of stone trait.

[Yagathai]

That's not true, Droz. Grey damage can also be dealt by someone with grey power who's not too worried about using their weapon a second time. With grey Pow but a black weapon, you can either take a +2 Mark or you can choose to do grey damage.

Since precision training lets you factor damage off of skill instead of Power, it would logically follow that a grey skill lets you do the same thing, no?

[Kublai]

All your answers can be found in the article in which Precision Training first appeared. (http://www.burningwheel.org/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=102)


Characters with Gray shade weapons/martial skills and Precision Training may have access to Gray shade damage so long as they have a Philosophy, Doctrine or Meditation skill of equal rank to their weapon skill. It is by channelling this philosophy through their martial skill that they are truly able to transcend.

[Yagathai]

Thank, Pete. OK, that answers #3.

What about #1 and #2?

[Kublai]

I'd say yes to both of those. Precision training allows the Skill exponent to replace the Power exponent and all benefits accorded.

[luke]

pete's correct on both counts. Precision training allows skill to count as Power.

Also, Precision Training, as it appears in the Revision, does not allow access to gray damage. I'll probably add the Doctrine/Philosophy/Meditation for gray damage back in for the Epic Burner.

::cue Bitter Grave Digger::

-L

[tetsujin28]

There's gonna be an Epic Burner? :shock: :D

[luke]

There's gonna be an Epic Burner? :shock: :D

You didn't think I was going to let the white shade feel all left out forever, did you?

SOMEONE's gotta fight the gods. (If by "someone" you mean you're not including the tens of thousands of Exalted players.)
-L

[Drozdal]

There's gonna be an Epic Burner? :shock: :D

You didn't think I was going to let the white shade feel all left out forever, did you?

SOMEONE's gotta fight the gods. (If by "someone" you mean you're not including the tens of thousands of Exalted players.)
-L

:Secretly rolls his 48D10:

[Yagathai]

Actually, the Bitter Grave Digger approves of including basic rules spread over several critical books. That way those that have all the books can lord it over those that don't.

[luke]

Actually, the Bitter Grave Digger approves of including basic rules spread over several critical books. That way those that have all the books can lord it over those that don't.

Note well that the BGD refers to doing gray damage with your toothpick via your meditation as a "basic rule."

:roll:

[Yagathai]

Listen, when you hired me you didn't get a Cheerful Grave Digger or a Fair-and-Balanced Grave Digger. I'm bitter, damn it, and part of being bitter means making people pay for how the world has wronged me. If that means that I have to take down a troll with a cheese knife using my superior knowledge of scripture, then so be it!

[luke]

superior knowledge of scripture

Hallelujah! Praise Jeebus! Amen!

-L

[Yagathai]

:D

[luke]

I never realized how much i needed a Bitter Grave Digger in my life.


Anyway, get back to work, you've still got graves to dig in the arena.

-L

[Yagathai]

*shoulders shovel*

*swears at Abzu under his breath*

*gets digging*

[Yagathai]

Waitasec. To get back on-topic -- precision training only gives you access to grey damage when your Doctrine/meditation/whatever is high enough. But does it give you the +2 to your Mark result that you get from having grey Power without the ancillary skill? Technically, that's not grey damage.

Otherwise you may want to rephrase to "Precision training coupled with a grey skill only gives you the equivalent of grey Power if your Doctrine/Meditation blah blah blah blah."

[Kaare Berg]

Grey damage can be dealt only with grey weapon, or hands of stone trait

So a troll with B9 strength, wielding a power 3 mattock (IMS B6 B12 G2) will on a superb hit inflict a B16 wound or break his weapon on a G2?

A moot question when beating on hapless humans, but quite a common issue when fighting the infamous Gargantuan Squiggoths of the Northern Icepeaks.

::what's this, a tantalising peek into another brewing setting?::
::Grumble Stomp Crush Bellow::
::Curious feet beating a quick retreat::

[eruditus]

Question #1: I would say, as far as Power 7 while throwing, yes, you get a VA +1. punch-through is punch-through and power like that should not be trifled with.

Why was Precision Training changed to not do gray damage? I think that this is so restrictive and well balanced compared to gray power and hands of stone that it should not be removed.

[Thor]

Why was Precision Training changed to not do gray damage? I think that this is so restrictive and well balanced compared to gray power and hands of stone that it should not be removed.

If you think it's that big a problem, we can just get rid of Hands of Stone.

[eruditus]

I don't have a problem with gray damage, gray power or hands of stone. I just think that there should be variable interesting means to it, instead of just one route. I thought Precision Training was elegant and interesting means to achieve the more brutish goal.

[eruditus]

I would make sense to me to have three or four routes to gray damage:
through a stat, through a trait, through skills and through magic.

[luke]

I would make sense to me to have three or four routes to gray damage:
through a stat, through a trait, through skills and through magic.

Trait and magic are essentially the only routes.

A gray weapon being considered magic. (and having a gray weapon is the only way to do gray damage without overt magic; traits simply turn regular body features into gray weapons.)

-L

[Kevin]

OK, this touches on something I found a little unclear in the current edition of BW, although it's never come up in actual play (don't know if I missed it or if it's not there).

The PTGS goes up to B16, G16, W16. What happens if you somehow get something that does B17 damage? Is it B17, effectively B16, or does it roll over and become G1?

If the third is true, a Troll could concievably do Grey damage with black stats and weapons.

[luke]

Kevin,
you're drifting...

time for a new thread.

[eruditus]

I would make sense to me to have three or four routes to gray damage:
through a stat, through a trait, through skills and through magic.

Trait and magic are essentially the only routes.

A gray weapon being considered magic. (and having a gray weapon is the only way to do gray damage without overt magic; traits simply turn regular body features into gray weapons.)

-L

Hmmm, where did Yagathai and I see the bit about breaking weapons to do gray damage? that would indicate your getting gray damage through a gray stat almost directly.

So wrestling damage is mundane despite heroic power, then?

Hmmm. Good point. So then could you say that you could get the discount for Hands of Stone with gray MA and Precision Training (as I believe was implied with the phrase that says it otherwise acts like gray power?)

[jc_madden]

"wrestling damage" feh. When you "wrestle" you're locking your opponent and not acutally damaging them just subracting dice until a physical stat gets to 0D at which point they're helpless and you can just kill them at will, color of damage is irrelivant.

[eruditus]

"wrestling damage" feh. When you "wrestle" you're locking your opponent and not acutally damaging them just subracting dice until a physical stat gets to 0D at which point they're helpless and you can just kill them at will, color of damage is irrelivant.

Very true. But what about Zangief's Atomic Suplex? that's gotta do some damage?! :shock:

http://www.realityvault.net/zangprof.gif

[jc_madden]

I would count that as like throw damage or something not grappling. (hence the reason you go flying... can't explain why you're on fire but...)

[Kublai]

Yeah, I'd agree that the suplex would act as a throw into a hard surface, namely the ground.

[eruditus]

I would count that as like throw damage or something not grappling. (hence the reason you go flying... can't explain why you're on fire but...)
Oh no. I feel myself coming up with the urge to convert Street Fighter manuevers to BW... but the only thing holding back the urge is the indecision of doing it from sratch or using White Wolf's version (I find storyteller to BW to be a stupid easy conversion process).

[jc_madden]

....and i feel the urge to pick up my dice bag....

[eruditus]

....and i feel the urge to pick up my dice bag....

Dueling dice bags!

My dice bag challenges your dice bag to a duel in the Arena.

Who's gonna ref?

[jc_madden]

oh shit i'm going to get about 4 blartha by my count when abzu logs on. quick kublai delete some posts!

edit: too late he's here! <hides>

[luke]

Don. Point of blartha. To be used in your current challenge in the Arena.

Please don't drift or post off topic in information threads. If you want to talk about Zangief or wrestling damage, start another thread.

jc, I asked you very nicely.

Please.
-L

[eruditus]

Shall we continue having this discussion and stop berating our forum members ::big :wink: ::




I would make sense to me to have three or four routes to gray damage:
through a stat, through a trait, through skills and through magic.

Trait and magic are essentially the only routes.

A gray weapon being considered magic. (and having a gray weapon is the only way to do gray damage without overt magic; traits simply turn regular body features into gray weapons.)

-L

Hmmm, where did Yagathai and I see the bit about breaking weapons to do gray damage? that would indicate your getting gray damage through a gray stat almost directly.

So wrestling damage is mundane despite heroic power, then?

Hmmm. Good point. So then could you say that you could get the discount for Hands of Stone with gray MA and Precision Training (as I believe was implied with the phrase that says it otherwise acts like gray power?)

[luke]

Shall we continue having this discussion and stop berating our forum members ::big :wink: ::


Are you trying to provoke me?

[eruditus]

Shall we continue having this discussion and stop berating our forum members ::big :wink: ::


Are you trying to provoke me?

Its called getting back on track.