Gray Shades in Play

[luke]

I am also concerned about shading. First off, it's a huge jump from a black to a grey shade, and I personally will not allow a player to go to white. I'm curious to hear other peoples' comments who have run extended campaigns and have seen the effects of shading on play first hand.


I moved this from another thread. Anyone care to comment before I sound off?

-abzu

[Kublai]

Well, it is my experience/theory that a gray shade will make a huge difference to low-skilled PCs, but only make a slight difference to high-skilled characters. Take a combat skill, for example. At B4, its hard to get Superb shots even in Aggresive stance. But a warrior with a B7, or 8 even, will more than likely be getting those Superb shots. So Graying out that skill will not be so much of an aid to a PC who is already getting the best result possible.

Earning a grey skill will likely have only a moderate effect on the game. Characters that have achieved this epiphany will probably have a high skill already. They will go from having a very good chance of success to having a great chance of success.

Burning a character will have a drastic effect on the game. PCs with a G4 skill as opposed to a B4 skill will be much more effective in play. That's a poor chance of success to a very good chance of success.

[nebulousmenace]

Gray skill makes a huge difference if you get a tiny injury, the slightest twinge. . .
Going from a 3 to a 4 difficulty is much less painful than going from a 4 to a 5, and if you take a Light wound it's no longer "all over."

Just a thought.

[eruditus]

I think kublai's comments are on target with the exception of Power.

Gray power has the effect of cutting swathes through your enemies...

Hmmm, wait a minute...

As I type this I notice that on page 35 of the CB it notes that no matter what your Forte shade is you always mark your superficials in Black? Is that right?

[Kublai]

As I type this I notice that on page 35 of the CB it notes that no matter what your Forte shade is you always mark your superficials in Black? Is that right?

Yeah, that's right. So even a person :?: with a Grey 8 Forte and Grey 8 Power and Grey Mortal Wound will still have a Superficial in the Black. This means that even the most terrible monster can still be taken down by mere mortals. Just make sure those mere mortals can do at least a B8 wound! :P Sure, it might take a god-awful amount of Superficials, but that beast will come down eventually. Just make sure you tie it up or cut its throat before it recovers in a few minutes! :shock:

[eruditus]

Hmmm, that being the case maybe it would be cleaner and more balancing if the same was done with Power. maybe say that all damage is in the black unless otherwise noted (ie. Gray traits, gray weapons, etc.)

Otherwise, even heroically tough critters get dropped two dice by the merest of strikes from a heroic man. Especially since you have the added bonus of +2 mark.

So as it is a G5 Forte/G5 Power critter has a G11 MW making a track that looks something like this:

Su:B3 Li:B8 Mi:B13 Sev:G2 Tr:G7 Mo: G11

One hit by the G5 Power does G6 damage WITHOUT a weapon. With only a +2 power that would put it at G7, delivering a tramatic wound with the bearest of hits.

I would think you would want a much more dramtic confrontation between these two. Two rolls and chances are, someone is out of it.

If you say all Damage is Black unless otherwise noted (using the basic idea behind the mechanic for Superficial wounds) then the G5 Power character (who still has a +2 Mark) is still doing Superficial to Light wounds on an incidental hit. Someone of that power could reach the B13 (power 5, +2 mark for gray shade,+2 power weapon) doing a midi wound. It wouldn't last too long with both delivering a minimium of -2DN per hit. Without a whole lot of avoids and B4 reflexes, this fight would last about three exchanges (maybe one with a bad steel roll). i find that to be far more satisfying. Especially with the Power G5 doing Severe hits every strike to mere mortals instead of instant mortal wound to anything that pissed him off.

thoughts?

[Kublai]

There are a lot of mistakes in the above example, eruditus. I am sure this all will be cleared up with a reviewing of the chapters involving Grey Power, Grey MWs, etc.

Grey Power will only do Grey damage if the character has bought the very expensive Hands of Stone trait. Otherwise, it's all black damage at base exponent plus two. I am not sure where you got the damage results for a person with a G5 Power. Assuming they had the trait, they would do a G5 Mark. If they did not have the trait, his Mark would be a B7.

Supies for Grey MWs are based on the full exponent of the Grey Forte... so in this case, it would result in a B6 Supie. Also, if there is a Grey Power and Forte, you would only add +4 to the average to get the Mortal Wound. Thus, your beastie would have a G9 MW.

Don't worry... there is a balance in the game, I assure you. And don't sweat not being familiar with all the rules... you just started after all. Heck, even I have to check the book every now and then! :)

[ronnieB]

I've been breaking my head over how to include semi-vulnerable nasties (a werewolf) in BW and the answer was here all along: give them a gray MW and a trait that will make them especially vulnerable to silver (shade shift all damage from silver, or something like that) this way the werewolf can still be taken down by a mob, but will be hard enough to damage without silver that the myths will start circling

I'm feeling so stupid :?

[eruditus]

Ah, looking over it I see that is almost exactly as I suggested... silly me :?

Although, one point ...

Where do you see that if you have Hands of Stone you do not get the +2 Mark?

[Kublai]

Ah, looking over it I see that is almost exactly as I suggested... silly me :?

Although, one point ...

Where do you see that if you have Hands of Stone you do not get the +2 Mark?

I am not sure exactly where it's stated (again, my wisdom prevents me from keeping the books at work! :) ), but the +2 Power was only meant for characters with a Grey Power but not the ability or control to apply it directly to damage (in other words, characters without the Hands of Stone trait). It must be in there somewhere - we've been playing it that way since the beginning! :?

[eruditus]

Hmmm, I don't know. It may seem like a simple thing but I think it may be a little overly complex and a bit academic. hmmmmm. Isn't there a trait that bumps up your damage by one pip? Maybe just say "Gray Power and you get this trait," or some such thing?