Finding Someone You Don't and Can't Know - Circles of Wises?

[Bridger]

So I have understood that you can use Circles in two major ways:

1) Introduce a character from your past (that need not have existed in the game context until this moment). This character must be someone you can weave into the story of your lifepaths.

2) Introduce a character whom you don't know but could have conceivably met in the course of your lifepaths. I interperet this as "Using the characters you do know from your past, contacting them, and asking them for a lead to the character you are trying to find now." It basically skips the step of "i'm going to circle up that pirate captain that ran a job for me way back and ask him where I can find a good bowman who's steady on his feet."


But I have not understood the following:

Lets say your character has lifepaths that have nothing to do with religion, and nothing in the backstory of your character has anything to do with religion. Now your character needs to find a priest willing to help you pull some dastardly plot against the cardinal (or whatever).

Do you use circles even though you have no real way of weaving said priest into your backstory? Or do you use something like City-Wise (with beginner's luck if you don't have it?).

[Udo Femi]

Linked tests.
1st: a Circle Test to find a guy who knows a guy who knows a priest
2nd: Persuasion (or Falsehood, or whatever) to make this guy help me find the priest
etc...
getting in touch wit someone who does not belong to your Circles is an adventure in itself. Be sure to toss in "nice" twists in case the player fails one of his roll. Bad things happen when you screw around finding people willing to help you killing Mazarin.

[noofy]

I think this is also a question of creative authorship and good storytelling. Udo gives a great suggestion to resolve the conundrum via linked test (and associated adventure). If a prolonged side adventure is not what the player wants, I'd like to suggest that despite the obstacle, if a player can muster enough dice to risk trying to circle in an improbable contact, the inherant tension in 'what if' they reslove as an enmity clause is priceless.

In our games, enmity clause NPCs always end up being memorable, multi-faceted, returning cameos that are intimately tied to one or more of the players BITs and we have a 'shared' ownership of their inception and behaviour within the story.
I love cirlces.

[Irminsul]

I've always wondered about this as well -- I mean, what is that +3 Ob modifier [unavailable to your circle] for if not for this situation?

For me, I just allow a Circles roll if it seems to "fit".

[Hired Sword]

I think you guys are over-narrowing the use of Circles.
Circles can, IIRC, represent pounding the pavement looking for someone. So I need to find a priest who is a bit on the shady side? Awesome.
Start at Ob 1
Specific occupation, an occupation completely outside of or unavailable to your circle (priest): +3
A specific disposition or detailed/rare knowledge (willing to help you pull some dastardly plot against the cardinal): +3
And we'll let the GM pick the time. Total Ob 7
You're probably going to fail and get enmity (which is awesome), but with a high enough circles and some luck you could just make it. Try linking "Enemies of the Cardinal-wise" in (What's that? you don't have it yet? Awesome, beginners luck that sucker. It'll come in handy).
Now, as the GM or a fellow player, you could say that a call for a circles roll is unreasonable (why is your peasant circling up the king of an enemy kingdom?), and the GM can simply choose to call failure the inability to find someone if you don't want enmity. But circles are left loose for a reason, and this is that reason.

[Bridger]

It's not over-narrowing the use of circles. Circles is stated (in the brown book at least) as a way to find someone you knew from your past. It could be interpreted as a way to find someone you could have known, but don't yet know. I don't think you can just circles up any character you please. It's about intent and task. If the player wants to find someone, how are they going about it? Are they going around to all the churches and just asking around for the guy who's bitter about cardinal what's-his-name? Are they surreptitious lounging in taverns that less reputable preists are going to? Are they talking to people they know to find leads?


To me, only that last one would be a direct circles test. The rest would be interrogation or Tavern-Wise.

[noclue]

Also from the Brown Book...


The scope of Circles is deliberately left open and loose in definition. Filling in gaps in the story is more important that arguing who knows whom and how. If the GM and the player are at odds over who a character may or may not know, look at the player characters lifepaths and the possible leads he could have taken. If the character and contact could be connected through one of those leads, Circles can be tested to try to bring him into play.So, while it's not completely open ended, it's definitely meant to be rather broad. Even leads not taken count.

[cathexis]

As was mentioned, the +3ob "not in your circle" mark is for this. In the game I'm running, if one of my players is looking for someone totally outside of a circle I tack on the +3 ob, and if they are tangentially related (a guardsman trying to find a thief to do a job for him for instance) I add the +2 uncommon occupation penalty to represent that the character probably knows a few people but it's unlikely that someone is going to be really excited to talk to them. If my players give a good enough argument, I also count reputations and affiliations as membership into a specific setting, so if someone is a man-at-arms type but has an affiliation and rep with the smugglers guild I'll let them make roles in the seafairing setting, assuming of course they are looking for someone covered by their rep and affiliation.

In the specific example about the priest, I'd say +2 Uncommon Occupation (assuming the character has no connection to Religious at all) since the meat is really about finding someone who will help with the dastardly plot. Of course, I'd also ask why it had to be from the Religious setting and probably give them a Temple Priest or Village Priest (since really, at that point you're going for color more than setting per-se).

Lastly, remember that if the player fails the role they can still find them: if the character is a stand-up member of the court and they want to find a coin clipper, it's very unlikely that person is going to like them. So yeah, you actually can circle up anyone you please, it's just unlikely that you're going to get certain people based on who you know and who you're connected to. If I'm a village fisherman and I want to circle up the grand duke of the neighboring province, that's 1 + 3 (totally outside circles / specific occupation, actually the grand duke is probably always +3 for specific occupation) + 3 (highest station) + 2 (disposed to actually listening to a lowly fisherman from the neighboring region) = 12ob to talk to the duke without getting thrown out immediately.