Reloading?

[LordGrunt]

Ok. My problem is when one of my chars (a very slow one too B2). Was being chased by another of the chars wearing armor which slowed him to my speed. He then fired a crossbow at me while sprinting after me and reloaded it. I tried to explain to the GM i was not too sure about him being able to do these such things especially while running, and he didnt seem to take into account that it takes 16 actions to reload a crossbow.

What does everyone think about what transpired.

Thanks for your input
:twisted:

[luke]

Hi LordGrunt!

Glad to hear that you all are playing!

Now I am not a medieval historian, but as far as I know one cannot load a crossbow on the run. A few moments must be taken to brace the machine and draw the bow. I do know that one could load and cock a crossbow while mounted... but generally not while sprinting on foot.

One of the aspects of game play that BW tries to enforce is the idea that actions take time to do. Reloading a crossbow, running away, drawing a sword or opening a door. All these take a little time and a sliver of concentration to perform.

Now in BW, all the characters exist within and operate on the same plane of time and space. So if one character is running away while another one is taking the time to reload a crossbow, the running character is going to have moved a certain distance during the time it takes to reload. Assuming a Reflexes of B4 for the crossbowman--4 exchanges to reload--that means the fleeing character would have ran 28 paces during that time (Speed B2= 7p sprint per exchange). Albeit that is not very far. In fact, it's not out of short range for a crossbow.

So the GM was wrong not to enforce actions for reloading. However, if your character was Sprinting straight away with a B2 Speed--imagine an asthmatic sloth going all out-- the GM was well within his rights to give his crossbowman another shot at you.

-abzu

[eruditus]

I love this stuff :) It so revives the feel of dread with "damn, i missed" as your quarry has now come out from his cover and is bearing down on you while you desperately tyr to reload :) Now that's drama!

[LordGrunt]

thanks for the input everybody.

And I actually have a real funny thing to add to my story from this same campagn. I hadnt had the chance to read into the rules as much as the GM and another player had. So when it came down to spending my general points the GM told me I should spend them all on weapon skills and with forks and the 3 martial skills I already had from my lifepaths and a root of 3 I would have ungodly weapon skills. I didnt know why he wanted me too but I thought hey if the GM tell you to what the hey.

But he soon realized his mistake and made everyone change their skills so that the only martial skills are the ones ur lifepath say you get.

And one of the other characters in the campagn thought it would be a great idea to make a deaf bard who was actually known as a great instrulmentalist. We of course all laughed at him. He realized the errors of his ways when we set the inn he was in on fire (me and another character and we had our reasons). He started playing his instrument really loud and trying to yell "fire fire" except it didnt come out too well. Plus he failed a steel test and he decided to stand and drule go figure. And when his time ran up he failed again so he stood and druled again we have no idea why. Then he proclaimed he hates this and said he quit and was going to make a new character. We like to refer to him as the winer of the group.

Well thanks all peace
:twisted:

[eruditus]

Well Beethoven was deaf but he can hardly be considered a "bard" having been grumpy and ill-suited for polite society... and he didn't sing...ever :)

Back to the topic...

This is one of the things I love about BW. Ranged weapons become far more balanced in such a deadly game, where you can mete out death from hundreds of yards with little to no real threat to your life. Now archers get off one or two shots in an encounter instead of meeting the melee folk's hit-for-hit. I thought Attacks of Opportunity were a great way to handle this in D&D to limit bow firing into melee at point blank range. But the time in BW irons everything out VERY nicely.

And longbows are encounter enders :)

We had really geeked out this weekend when we chatted about Legolas's Practiced Precision: Nock Arrow, Gray Agility, Gray Bow skill :)

[Kublai]

We had really geeked out this weekend when we chatted about Legolas's Practiced Precision: Nock Arrow, Gray Agility, Gray Bow skill :)

I tried to burn Legolas once! It's a blast making BW versions of popular fictional characters. I think Legolas ought to have a Grey Perception and Grey Reflexes as well. We did the BW math and by watching the movie counted that he was shooting an arrow almost twice an exhange. That would mean he would need a Grey 6 Reflexes, which is not unreasonable considering he is an elven prince who has lived for a thousand years. This would also give him a Grey Tracking, which he displayed on many occassion.

[LordGrunt]

HAHA well lets not forget Legolas is from a movie too so he obviously is able to do things normal elves and people cant. And other chars from the movies like in the second when Gimli and Strider hold off the Orcs in front of the Gate. Im sorry, but no matter how tough, fast, etc. you are they would simply overwhelm you like a wave to a sand castle. And (excuse my ranting) when Gandalf and the riders charge into the Orcs with pikes. Na they would all be impaled on them and die horrible deaths the Orcs still outnumbered them emmensly, but it was an amazing movie dont get me wrong and the Ents kicked ASS WOOO!!

:twisted:

[eruditus]

LordGrunt, there is an obvious reason you play and like Burning Wheel. :)

The notation in my BW book from Luke is "The Death Spiral loves you too" :lol:

[Kublai]

[quote="LordGrunt"]And (excuse my ranting) when Gandalf and the riders charge into the Orcs with pikes. Na they would all be impaled on them and die horrible deaths the Orcs still outnumbered them emmensly, but it was an amazing movie dont get me wrong and the Ents kicked ASS WOOO!![\quote]

:D well, despite it being a movie and despite BW being "realistic," I think Gandalf's charge at the orcs can easily be explained using BW terms. Gandalf obviously used magic and a surprise flank attack to cause the Orcs to take a Steel test with a severe Ob, enough so that everyone of them failed and hesitated long enough for the riders to plow into their ranks! See? Easy! :wink: Hesitation is a terrible thing! :twisted:

[LordGrunt]

Watch the Movie again there might have been hesitation at the very very last second but all the pikes were aligned right with the horses so for the most part the Orcs woulda won especially since they outnumbered the Humans and Elves emensly.

And hey I got a question When they all ride out of the Fortress there are like 7 people in all is that because everyone else is dead including all the Elves or just somewhere else I always wondered about that?

:twisted:

[eruditus]

I ran a few scripting demos two weekends ago so we had a knight in white metal, a knife fighter and the diviner of the group. It was just a sample melee (the knight, in game, is actually the diviner's bodyguard). The new gentleman playing the knight was about to script loading and firing the heavy corssbow she had at her side...

he quickly changed his mind at the 16+ actions to load it.

This gives me a great idea... missile weapons sturdy enough to be used after firing as melee weapons - like those piratey wheel-locks attached to a parrying or axe. Hmmmm....

[Kublai]

I totally think Ranged weapons should be used in close conbat after the first volley is away. Crossbows and bows regularly take on club aspects in our games. I believe Elvish Bows are given special consideration for this use!

[eruditus]

They would have to be specially designed for such. Beating people with your bow is a good way to increase your Ob to hit in my book.

ooo, ooo I just thought of a new Bow skill manuever:

Handicapped Shot
Ob 5
After firing once you may ignore OB penalties for shoddy materials and halve Ob penalties for weather, range and weather conditions only when shooting at a target with similar conditions as the first shot. Second shot should be made in the same engagement with a minimum amount of movement at GMs discretion.

[Mad Hatter]

Bows and crossbows just really aren't designed for this sort of thing. While I think you might be able to use one to defend yourself, you would definitely risk damaging the weapon and making it useless for it's original purpose.

Hitting someone with the crossbow stock is more reasonable than a bow attack. Bows are springy, it would be more like a switch than a staff.

[eruditus]

And as a side note, bows, crossbows and such should be far easier to destroy than melee weapons. A Power test with an Ob of 3 (modified down if used in concert with a hard surface) would be all it takes to do this once disarmed (physical act, 2 actions).

And maybe an Ob +2 called shot to slit the string on either weapon type with a slashing weapon.