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Thread: The Line Between Wises and Circles

  1. #11
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    ::shakes head at poor Pete::
    "Athos—Porthos, farewell till we meet again! Aramis, adieu forever!"
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  2. #12
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    I have it wrong? :\
    The thoughts and opinions reflected in my posts are not necessarily those of The Burning Wheel. If I am not quoting exact text and giving you a page for reference, please add "I BELIEVE" to the beginning of every single sentence I ever write ever.

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  3. #13
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    Oh, Luke. Sigh. The confidence of youth...

    I remember it a bit differently, but that's beside the point.

    I understand your clarification and I appreciate the guidance!

    Peter

  4. #14
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    The point you bring up is valid and I'm trying to demonstrate the fine line.

    Circles brings in a character that is potentially on your side.
    Wise introduce facts.
    "Athos—Porthos, farewell till we meet again! Aramis, adieu forever!"
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    Fact: The Bishop lied, murdered, and cheated his way into his position (Dirty Secrets-wise)

    Person: My former employer, the Bishop, who I still have dirt on may be able to help us (Circles)

    In the first case, we are learning about the setting—this is the hypothetical one in the pair, but it could come up as a Linked test towards Persuading someone to go against the Church.

    In the second case, the player was looking to get in touch with the Bishop and use that connection. The distinction here that is clearest for me is the consequences: the player was risking the Bishop wanting to tie up a loose end instead of expressing gratitude and trying to conduct business as normal. If he merely needed the fact of the Bishop's corruption, he would be risking counter evidence existing or some other contradiction/twist of the desired fact that would be problematic.


    Fact: The Green Eyed Witch bears the first key of nightmares (Apocalypse-wise)

    Person: The Green Eyed Witch foretold by prophecy, she bears the first key of nightmares (Circles)

    In this case the hypothetical is the person (Circling up those chosen by destiny has sadly not happened in a game I've run yet, but someone got real close once). The Rogue Wizard's player was establishing a fact that was cool and helped explain the predicament another character's relationship was in—she was pursued because people thought she had the first key of nightmares.


    I don't think any sort of fact should be intrinsically out of bounds of -wises—so long as it is an actual fact and an actual conflict. Even declaring people your friend is quite possible legitimate for the use of -wises—however the moment you have an Intent about actually hooking up with your friends and getting any sort of help from them you need Circles, it is no longer about facts of the setting but about your social standing at the moment with regards to that person.
    -As long as you can hear my voice, you are safe.

  6. #16
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    Peter,

    If I remember correctly, the intent of your Family Secrets-wise test was along the lines of: He secretly has a family member in the city with whom he stays in touch.

    The wise test established the fact of the character, but did not grant us access to the character. Once we knew of his existence, we had to undertake a series of tests to locate the character and convince him to speak to us. For instance, I believe we had to pass an Ob 3 Streetwise test to find the particular bad part of town he lived in, and I know Luke was sharpening his knives in the hopes that we would fail that test.

    This may help further outline the differences: The Family Secrets-wise test could have had many outcomes. Maybe our employers had him killed, and that's why our target fled. Maybe someone had kidnapped him, so our target went AWOL to find him or as at the demand of his cousin's kidnappers. Maybe our employers had ordered our target to assassinate his cousin, and instead they fled together.

    Any of those would have successfully fulfilled your intent, but would not have led to our meeting with the cousin in the manner that it happened.

    I corner him and stab him in the face!

  7. #17
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    Thanks, guys.

    I feel I'm getting a good handle on it now.

    Peter

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