Why are there so many skills?

[thadrine]

This is ridiculous! I love everything about this system, but the number of skills. When there are 5 skills that honestly do the exact same thing, what is the point?

[luke]

Let me introduce you to Mouse Guard.
http://www.indiepressrevolution.com/...8&cat=0&page=1

The character sheet is linked elsewhere on this forum.

[rafial]

But to answer the OP question: similar but slightly different skills provide slightly different areas of application, and flavor the color of the means that can be applied and the results that can be expected.

[luke]

No, the answer really is "if this is ridiculous, and you don't understand the point, Mouse Guard is the game for you!" No muss, no fuss.

[Maedhros]

I like lots of skills.

Taking a number of similar skills represents greater depth of knowledge and is reflected by more FoRK dice.

On the flip side, lifepaths could easily be re-written to trim down the number of skills in use.

[thadrine]

This systems is genius. Yes, it is complicated, too complicated for many. Reading through this the first time makes me think that this is what ADnD was shooting for but was no where close to, I know that may be blasphemous to say.

My only real problem is that there are so many skills that do the same thing.

And I guess that there are so many different things to reference in play that it would slow things down so much. I mean the advancement mechanic alone is an ordeal, it is great, but I have never played a game that ever needed you reference any table for anything during play. And the fact that there are close to a hundred different skills referenced between different books, why can they not all be in one place?

Is there a consolidated list of skills?
A GM screen with all the different things you would have to reference in play?

[ChrisG]

Some of what you're looking for is on the downloads page of the wiki.

Also, and this is my opinion, but not many characters have two skills that cover the same ground. Which ones are bugging you?

[Sean Nittner]

I really like the number of skills because they offer excellent niche protection for players. For example. Lets say two players both want social characters. They can't just take Bluff, Diplomacy and Sense Motive and be done (and consequently identical). They will choose based on their life paths to be a sniveling sycophant with social platitudes and falsehood, a righteous preacher with oratory and doctrine, a refined courtier with persuasion and etiquette, or an academic dilettante with rhetoric and conspicuous. Each of these characters is social, each can maneuver around people, but they will be stronger in different circles and will have drastically different means of achieving their goals. In the case of D&D you can't have two social characters without threatening each other's niche; in BW you can easily have five.

I agree that is very complex (and as I'm learning it sometimes hard to digest) but I think having all these skills really grounds the game and makes it feel incredibly real.

[ChrisG]

I'm wary of any discussions that compare BW to D&D, especially discussions that say how BW compares favorably, because D&D is just too big a target and at the end of the day, a very different game.

What I will say is that a big part of Luke's art, craft, genius, or whatever you want to call it, is in naming.

Names matter. They really, really matter. A game with the skill Attiliator is different than a game with Crossbowmaker. That dwarves make arms with War Art rather than Weaponsmith and Armorer matters. It immediately tells us the difference between dwarven arms and the same items forged by men. Not to mention the fact that what is two skills for men is one for dwarves.

[Odie]

What skills do the same thing?

Persuasion (convince one person that what you want him to do is a good thing to do) is different than Oratory (convince a crowd to do what you want) is different than Soothing Platitudes (kow-tow and be generally obsequious) is different than Haggling (convince someone to see your price). They may seem to overlap, and I'd say there is a little bit, but not as much as it sounds like you're suggesting. Haggling, for instance, isn't about Persuasion ("C'mon, it's good business to lower your price so you can drive up demand and sell more,") because you aren't trying to get your target to agree with you. Haggling's more, "look, I can get this over in Artania for a full dozen drachma less, and it'd cost me less than that dozen to travel there and get it." You know, haggling.

One benefit to the large skill list is it lets characters solve a given situation through different solutions, and each different solution will color the results and suggest something about the character. A character who uses Persuasion to get information out of an ex-bodyguard will be very different in the fiction than a character who uses Seduction to acheive the same Intent. Pass or fail, the result is also likely to differ; Persuasion sounds more like the ex-bodyguard would think of the character as trustworthy, maybe even a potential friend, whereas Seduction...

The other benefit is that FoRKs mean that a character can use their full Persuasion exponent, then FoRK in Falsehood, Soothing Platitudes, and Seduction -- all with one remark, if you're really on your game -- and end up with a stronger dice pool than using Persuasion alone. The system represents that a well-rounded social character not only has more tools in his or her toolbox, so to speak, but also that having more tools means they work together and thus the character is more effective.

-B