How many factors are you typically using?

[stormsweeper]

It's the intent. She succeeds, no sweat off anyone's nose. She fails, you either twist or you give a condition. In many RPGs, failures are "dead ends" but in MG it's almost the opposite.

[buzz]

It's the intent. She succeeds, no sweat off anyone's nose. She fails, you either twist or you give a condition. In many RPGs, failures are "dead ends" but in MG it's almost the opposite.

Very true. But failure+twist still means that the player does not get their intent, right?

[Rafe]

Very true. But failure+twist still means that the player does not get their intent, right?

Once they pass the twist or receive a condition, they achieve whatever it was that caused the condition/twist. So if the intent is to cross a stream and they fail and you apply a condition (Tired for having a hard time getting across, for example), they're across.

[Aramis]

If you twist, once the twist is resolved or back-burnered, they accomplish their intent as well.

At least, by the letter of the rules.

[buzz]

You guys are referring to p.91?

Alternately, if the twist is successfully dealt with, the patrol moves back on track for their mission. They dust off their paws and say, “Now that that’s over with, we can get back to business.” Move the story forward as if the patrol had overcome the initial obstacle that caused the twist.

I guess I didn't read it that way, as the basic definition of Twist is (on p.91 and 68): "You can fail to overcome the obstacle and the GM can inject a twist into the game..." I didn't think the idea was that the players get their intent no matter what. There are three outcomes: succeed, fail + twist, or fail + success but with condition. The Conditions of Success passages are the only ones that say the players achieve their intent despite biffing the roll.

I mean, the example of finding the dead grain peddler's body in the snake doesn't seem to like achievement of intent. If they had made the roll, the peddler would be alive.

[Rafe]

I mean, the example of finding the dead grain peddler's body in the snake doesn't seem to like achievement of intent. If they had made the roll, the peddler would be alive.

Not really. The goal is "find the grain peddler" with the side goal of "determine if he's a traitor" (or find evidence of it). Both are achieved regardless of the twist: The peddler is found on a successful Scout check but also found (dead) with the snake twist. After all, Scout doesn't determine state of existence, only finding something/someone. That happens, succeed or fail.

What the twists/conditions do is make it harder to succeed overall by beating down the guardmice over the course of the GM Turn.

[buzz]

Not really. The goal is "find the grain peddler" with the side goal of "determine if he's a traitor" (or find evidence of it). Both are achieved regardless of the twist: The peddler is found on a successful Scout check but also found (dead) with the snake twist. After all, Scout doesn't determine state of existence, only finding something/someone. That happens, succeed or fail.

What the twists/conditions do is make it harder to succeed overall by beating down the guardmice over the course of the GM Turn.

Then what stops the GM from deciding that the grain peddler is dead no matter what the outcome of the roll is? I.e., what's the difference between the player succeeding on the roll and the GM saying he's dead, and the player failing the roll and the GM saying he's dead? Basically, what does "harder to succeed" mean when the players succeed no matter what?

I dunno. BW and BE do not work like this. When you biff a roll, you don't get your intent, period. If you declare your intent and know you get it no matter what, it's just the "cost" that varies, that seems pretty boring. What reason is there not to just ask for the sky every time you make a test?

I mean, conflicts don't work this way. If you lose, you lose, compromise or no.

[Aramis]

The GM deciding that he's dead anyway would mean that some OTHER result would be the twist for failing the search roll. Perhaps a hatching batch of little snakes....

[buzz]

I'm gonna split this to a new thread.