Burning Dice!

[corey_s]

LOOOOTS of speculation (and I'm the top speculum), but if we're voting, I'd go with this:
6: Red, flaming wheel (The Burning Wheel)
4, 5: Black, non-flaming wheel
3: ~50% Grey, two-thirds wheel
2: White, one-thirds wheel
1: Blank

In Yellow, Orange, Ivory, or ~20% Gray opaque. I'll buy a whole brick of 36x12mm or 12x16mm.

Cool.... cool.

Here's my attempt at the Awesome:

Dice color: Adventure Burner Green and Magic Burner Blue options
Dice Size: 12mm and 16mm options

Layout:
6 - centered: large red flaming burning wheel graphic
5 - diagonally: 1 white pip, 1 black pip, 1 grey pip
4 - diagonally: 1 white pip, 1 black pip, 1 grey pip
3 - diagonally: 1 white pip, <blank>, 1 grey pip
2 - centered: 1 white pip
1 - blank


EDIT: of course the 'pips' could be small non-flaming wheels instead (but I like the pips because they're a bit more 'basic' - makes the dice less 'busy', IMHO)

[Aramis]

Cool.... cool.

Here's my attempt at the Awesome:

Dice color: Adventure Burner Green and Magic Burner Blue options
Dice Size: 12mm and 16mm options

Layout:
6 - centered: large red flaming burning wheel graphic
5 - diagonally: 1 white pip, 1 black pip, 1 grey pip
4 - diagonally: 1 white pip, 1 black pip, 1 grey pip
3 - diagonally: 1 white pip, <blank>, 1 grey pip
2 - centered: 1 white pip
1 - blank


EDIT: of course the 'pips' could be small non-flaming wheels instead (but I like the pips because they're a bit more 'basic' - makes the dice less 'busy', IMHO)

I would buy those, in 12mm... but honestly, I'd rather have a full sized disk than smaller pips.
6: Flaming Wheel in Red
4-5: Black disk or wheel.
3: 50% gray disk or wheel.
2: white disk or wheel.
1 blank

Thing is, on 12mm, a simple pip is, in order to fit three, going to be limited to about 4mm, in order to fit them. And doing it diagonally is going to be about 2.5mm. It would be nice if the pips were all the same size. Playing around in sketchup, I discovered 4mm pips will work. I might have to have some of these 3d printed for S&G's.
Yeah, I just realized I got the colors wrong on the pic...

[corey_s]

Dice color: Adventure Burner Green and Magic Burner Blue options
Dice Size: 12mm and 16mm options

Layout:
6 - centered: large red flaming burning wheel graphic
5 - diagonally: 1 white pip, 1 black pip, 1 grey pip
4 - diagonally: 1 white pip, 1 black pip, 1 grey pip
3 - diagonally: 1 white pip, <blank>, 1 grey pip
2 - centered: 1 white pip
1 - blank


EDIT: of course the 'pips' could be small non-flaming wheels instead (but I like the pips because they're a bit more 'basic' - makes the dice less 'busy', IMHO)

Thing is, on 12mm, a simple pip is, in order to fit three, going to be limited to about 4mm, in order to fit them.

That seems ok to me - especially considering that aside from color of pip, you'd also have the number and position of pips by which to identify the shade-value of the side.

The idea being that increasing the total number of visual cues makes it really easy and quick to parse the roll results, and, having each active color/shade present on the sides means that a player can just simply 'scan for white' or 'scan for black' or 'scan for grey' - no exceptions (well, except for red flaming wheel).

I thought that would be better than: "if black shaded roll, then look for black; else if grey shaded roll, look for black or grey; else if white shaded roll, look for black or grey or white"...

I would buy those, in 12mm... but honestly, I'd rather have a full sized
6: Flaming Wheel in Red
4-5: Black disk or wheel.
3: 50% gray disk or wheel.
2: white disk or wheel.
1 blank

Hmm... there's an idea too, maybe:

6 - large flaming burning wheel graphic: 100% red
5 - large non-flaming burning wheel graphic: 33% white, 33% grey, 33% black
4 - large non-flaming burning wheel graphic: 33% white, 33% grey, 33% black
3 - large non-flaming burning wheel graphic: 50% white, 50% grey
2 - large non-flaming burning wheel graphic: 100% white
1 - blank

Although that lacks the extra visual clues of pip-position and pip-number.

Just some idle armchair idea tossing - I just hope they're quick and simple to read for new players (they shouldn't have to learn or memorize the shades - they should just need be given one color to scan for)


Beers!

[corey_s]

Thing is, on 12mm, a simple pip is, in order to fit three, going to be limited to about 4mm, in order to fit them. And doing it diagonally is going to be about 2.5mm. It would be nice if the pips were all the same size. Playing around in sketchup, I discovered 4mm pips will work. I might have to have some of these 3d printed for S&G's.

Wow - nice!

One thing wrt the diagonal positioning: you're totally right, that would require smaller pips.

The reason I presented it that way though, was an attempt to keep the "relative-to-each-other-positioning" of the colored-pips as regular/consistent as possible - to increase speed and ease of visual processing... but, yeah - maybe the bigger pips would be better after all.

[David Artman]

OK, I'm sold (except for the neon green)! The idea of pips, with the commensurate "hunt for black/gray/white" is GENIUS. I change my vote....

[edit]
And it's occurred to me that it ought to be a LOT easier to calculate the balance on the die, with pips instead of art. Basically, the three-pip sides (and the wheel) need to remove the same amount of material as the two- and one-pip sides, so they'd be shallower pips (e.g. say the one-pip is 1 mm deep; then the two-pip is 0.67 mm deep and the three-pip is .34 mm deep). Ink weight might be a factor as well.

Something I'd consider, also, is keeping the black, gray, and white pips in the same location, regardless of whether there are other pips on the same face. That would (I think) help "spot the white/gray/black" by both position on the die face and color.
[/edit]

[yeloson]

Neat.

Last year I bought a bunch of glossy blank black dice at the game store, then used colored dots to mark the odds. Red = 6, Green = 4, 5. Initially i had put them together for Mechaton, but then realized the odds work just as well for BW.

Chris

[noofy]

burning die 2.jpg
burning die 1.jpg
I Finally Got them. Nice.

[hansel]

Not to crap on anyone's enthusiasm, but I really don't like those dice with multi-colored pips. It probably works well in play, but dice with wheels in different stages of burning & different shades just look way cooler.

[Justin in Oz]

I am in line with hansel.

The whole idea is to have dice that are read in a flash. The less cluttered they are the batter.

I don't have supernatural elements in my campaign. So when God (which ever god) turns up and starts throwing dice around, I will pick up a set of normal numbered dice and discount all the ones. In the mean time, I dont want to clutter up the failure side with never used little white marks. I want failure to be just that, void. Sorry, complication. White markings are "as useful as tits on a bull", as we say here in Australia.

I want to get some smooth, well oiled, bones of fate. A simple bowie knife, not a 20 blade swiss army brick that feel heavy in the hand. To make the dice so that they cater for everything would be like having design by committee. We are moving from a racehorse to a camel. I appreciate the genius that has gone into designing the multipurpose dice, I just don't think that it is required for the current brief.

If there are enough of us, then they grey dice will cost the same as the black ones. So let's not clutter up their faces with a smattering of symbols. The more differing symbols used, the more processing your brain has to do when you look at the throw. The idea here is to (1)state the Ob, (2)throw the dice, (3)then immediately cheer or gnash your teeth. To put in a series of symbols that your brain has to decode is returning to the original set up of your brain counting up the pips on the dice, is exactly what we are trying to get away from.

We should get a set of dice for mortal shade and for heroic shade. Let's make them as slick and uncomplicated as possible. Symbols for success and Success Explosion!, nothing else. Let's not compromise on simplicty. There are enough of us in on the order, so we don't have to compromise.

[corey_s]

I am in line with hansel.

The whole idea is to have dice that are read in a flash.

Scan for <color>.

That's gotta be pretty damned quick, and extremely intuitive as well.

I'm skeptical that dedicated, single-shaded dice would resolve appreciably/measurably faster.

But without proof - my guess is as good as yours.

I'm thinking that BWHQ are smart enough to try and test a few various prototypes before making their final decision.

I don't have supernatural elements in my campaign.

I can completely sympathize with this... however:

If one did have supernatural elements in one's campaign, or expected to at some point or other - I'd put forth a humble wager that one would likely view the multi-shaded dice as a definite boon.

A simple bowie knife, not a 20 blade swiss army brick that feel heavy in the hand.
[...]
We are moving from a racehorse to a camel.

Holy Mega-Hyperbole!

(c8=

To make the dice so that they cater for everything would be like having design by committee.

The multi-shaded dice would cater to the published mechanics of the game.

The less cluttered they are the batter.
[...]
The more differing symbols used, the more processing your brain has to do when you look at the throw.

... again though, we're just talking color here - it's the most basic "symbol" possible (I think).

If I don't see <color>, I don't count the die.

But, yeah - without empirical evidence... we're just speculating.

I totally agree that the simpler the better - but... I also think there's a diminishing returns, and that a slight compromise often purchases more than it expends.

We should get a set of dice for mortal shade and for heroic shade.

You've just doubled the number dice folks need. And White gets left behind because it is rarer.

I'd much prefer one set of uniform dice than three sets of specialized dice.

Warning - potentially divisive opinion/assertion ahead:

Seems if BWHQ ignore White shade with these upcoming dice, then that's a clear message that White shade is effectively deprecated, that it was a mistake.

I've hardly played beyond a couple demo games with some friends - so I don't know... are White shaded exponents neigh unheard of in actual play?


Cheers